Trey: Hello and welcome back to another
episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast

dedicated to the Marvel Cinematic
Universe and everything you need to know.

I'm Trey.

Jude: I'm Jude.

How are you doing Trey?

Trey: It's Moon Knight Week!

Mountainous.

I'm pumped.

I've had, I had students asking
me, he was like, actually

there's this moon something.

Jude: I'm not sure.

You mean moon night, the desktop
picture of my big smart board

in class, the past month.

Yeah, never heard of them.

The one thing I didn't say to
him, I was like, aren't you in

the comic book club with me?

How are you?

Not,

Trey: what are you doing?

Favorite thing about this is finding
out that you update your smart board

with whatever Marvel things coming out.

Jude: Yes, I do.

I 100% too.

Trey: Are you promoting in class?

Jude: Uh, I have yet to put the pod
image up, but when moon night's over

and there's still a few weeks left
of school, I will be switching to Ms.

Marvel.

Trey: Nice.

That's super cool.

Jude: Well, Rob multimers and madness
actually, cause that comes out early may.

Um, but yeah.

I love it.

So yeah, like infinity war actually

Trey: do another rewind.

Jude: No, I'm saying I've been doing
that since infinity wars, like oh wow.

With movies.

Like, yeah.

That's, that's a regular thing
for me even before the pod.

And

Trey: that's why we are doing this podcast
together because the moment you told me

you were doing a rewatch with your class.

I knew we needed to do something.

Oh man.

But, uh, yeah, we, uh, we got
Moonlight coming up this week.

If you're listening to this on our release
day, which is Monday, moon night, we'll

be debuting March 30th on Wednesday.

So that means an a week from now, uh,
we'll be dropping our moon night reviews.

You know, before we get going into the
bulk of the episode, though, we did

want to take some time to plug the geek
generation podcast, uh, because Rob Logan,

if you're familiar from the guest bus,
as he's had on our show and invited us

on his show to talk about the Batman,

Jude: that was fun, talking about
something, non MCU for a good two

and a half hours was fun, super fun.

And we could have gone longer.

Trey: Oh, we totally, you know, what
if you're, I think this is okay too.

I'm going to say what it is
without actually saying what it is.

I texted Rob Logan, like two days
after we recorded, they just released

deleted footage of a certain thing in
the Batman and we missed it by two days.

It would have been so much fun to
talk about on the podcast itself.

Jude: It would have been.

Ah, how do I want to say this?

I know, right?

I don't want to say too much because
I want you to go check it out,

listen to the pod, but I'd definitely
thinking back to the conversation.

Good formulate a pretty good guess
of where the three of us would stand

on that, on that deleted scene.

Trey: So it's not out yet, but we will
definitely be re-tweeting it when it is

officially launched on our social media.

And of course, the next time we hop
on the mix, we'll be sure to link it

in the show notes, but while you're
waiting, make sure you go check out the

geek generation podcast, which will be
linked in the show notes of this episode.

With all that being said, if you
downloaded this episode, then you know,

we're going to be explaining the Marvel
multi-verse after Spider-Man no way home.

So setting the stage here back on July
15th, 2021, uh, it was reported that Kevin

FYGI and a bunch of the creative leads
over at Marvel studios had a meeting to

set the ground rules for the multi-verse.

If I'm not mistaken, July was
around the time Loki was debuting.

So it makes sense that this is something
that they're starting to get concrete

rules for as we move forward into the
multi-verse with this phase of the MCU.

So coming to this episode, Jude,
I think we wanted to start here.

What is the multi-verse if I
could just, you know, pitch

that super easy question to you.

Jude: I find that super easy question.

Um, I find that.

It's weird.

Cause like we're going to have a
meeting on setting the rules for the

multi-verse were trying to storytell
by having no rules, you know?

Um, so it's, it's interesting.

Like I watched a couple of videos thinking
about, multi-verse only just to try it.

Like I have my ideas of what I
think it is and things like that.

And one of the videos I saw talked
about nine different types of

multi versus you are definitely

Trey: more prepared than I am because I
have two different types, but go ahead.

Jude: And some of them like,
okay, did we go that far?

I don't want to go that far.

It's Brian Green, a physicist.

Uh, he J he wrote this book,
the elegant universe, and

didn't turning up and do a show.

On PBS, you know, and really good.

I've seen it.

I wanted to get the book, you know?

And so this is coming off of this
theoretical physicist, a universe, you

know, everything literally mathematically,
when you get into the mathematics of

it in physics, you get beyond universe.

It's, there's more than, than one.

Okay.

There is a weird thing between
theory, scientifically and philosophy.

So for example, strict science
it's what is the scientific method?

You observe it, some of this quantum
mechanic physics type things,

because it's only mathematically
true and has not been observable.

Yet for technological
reasons, put it that way.

Some would argue that this is just,
you're still doing philosophy.

You know what I mean?

So real quick type number one is
quilted only works in infinite universe,

infinite amount of space, right?

Infinite numbers.

Um, we're going to be on aware of these
identical areas due to the speed of light.

Right?

And anytime with these words,
you can start thinking like

think images, quilt, right.

You know, quilted.

Um, but a university imagined that whole,
you know, everything's possible all

options exists, type theory, inflationary.

You get these little pockets of
where they call inflation fields.

They collapse.

And like in there, like
collapse and rebirth, right.

Form new universes, uh, there's brain
theory universe exists on this membrane.

It floats on this higher
dimension of other membranes.

Uh, universities can interact with
each other when they do interact.

They basically collide.

And what we would call the big bang when
they collide on this membrane thing,

uh, they're cyclical is number four,
multiple universities that have collided

causing big bang, bounce back and you
know, back and pass through time until

they're pulled back together and collide
again, destroying all contents, creating

a new, so like you, so imagine like here
cyclical I'm, I'm almost for me visually

imagining like a billiards table, right.

And two things collide.

And that would be a big bang.

Right?

And then they go around, but it ends
up bouncing back, you know, but their

journey around the table is time when
they come back together and collide.

Again, those it's like
another explosion, right.

It's destroyed, but it also goes back out.

So that's the cycle of time.

It's cyclical.

That one.

I really find interesting.

The only reason why is when I think
of the 2014 secret wars run, which

was Marvel, trying to figure out
what to do with all their universes,

6 1 6 and all that other stuff.

And so what they did was like start
consolidating and that secret stories

line, the different universes collide.

And the stuff they wanted
to keep, they kept and the

comment, you know what I mean?

Like we like miles Morales.

Yeah.

We like miles Morales.

So we're going to have miles
Morales and our New York.

Cause we're not gonna let that go,
but we want to get Gwynn's Stacey,

spider Gwyn out of this other
universe and interact with these.

And so we're just going to collide
them all together, pick and choose

where we want to create a new world.

Dr.

Strange in that comic, Ron
is the right hand man of Dr.

Doom.

Who's holding everything together.

Kamala Khan is very important in their
Deadpool's very important to their Hmm.

Fantastic for is very important for her.

Like notice a pattern of like.

People we think are coming.

Uh, we keep hearing secret
wars, Russo brothers.

So that one, I found very interesting
in terms of like, okay, wait a minute.

Are they going to try to dive into
like, maybe this type of multiverse

down the line, um, landscape, uh,
now you're getting to, um, string

theory type stuff that, you know
what TJ, if you're listening, we

need you back on here for this one.

Uh, this one, I want you in the
video as simplistic as it was.

I'm an amateur physicist and
I'm using amateur lightly,

Trey: depending on how well
we're doing DJs, either like

nodding, like, okay, okay.

Or just like screaming at
his, his iPod right now.

He

Jude: is, he is like, he's like,
why didn't they ask me on for this?

Because this was supposed to
happen in February and for various

things, it got rescheduled.

So now, uh, quantum creates a new
universe when it, uh, diversion

events occur and many world
interpretations and a mini world type

interpretations of quantum mechanics.

That sounds a little bit
like what we've seen, right.

This creates a new universe
when a diversion occurs.

Okay.

Holographic, you know, the theory of
surface area of space can encode the

contents of the volume of region.

Again, again, my note, literally I'm
reading it again, not a physical.

I have no idea what that one meant.

Number eight and there was nine
number eight is trace favorite.

It's the simulated theory exists
on a complex computer systems

that simulate entire universes.

Maybe that's the multi-verse.

I see your face story.

We're using video and I see the anxiety
so glad we're using video for the first

time to see each other record this.

And I just see the anxiety of
like you're biting your nails.

Okay.

Um, and then number nine contains
mathematically every possible universe.

I'm not a physicist.

I can't tell you the
difference between the two.

I'm just watching Brian Green video.

Take it for what you will.

But I do find that fascinating that
there was nine theories because in like

popular language and culture and media,
We all think we know what we're talking

about when it comes to multi-verse so,
yeah, so that's, uh, so yeah, that's

kind of interesting to the actually

Trey: yeah, well, I, you know, I, I
liked the way you frame it in the, we

all think we know what we're talking
about, which kind of goes back to, you

know, what we started as the setting, the
stage, they sat down to set the rules.

And so another thing I'm glad that
you gave the nine different examples

of what we think the multi-verse is
like, because I want to try and bring.

From the broad view to what
the MCU seems to be doing.

So for me, and my understanding of
their goals is in order to have a,

multi-verse like an understandable
multi-verse, you need to have a

constant because you need something to
contrast against the different changes

within the media we're tackling.

So for me, the MCU in game and everything
prior is our constant, because now

after end game, this is where we're
starting to see things diverged.

We're starting to see the multi-verse,
whether it's through fake outs, like

far from home, uh, or actual diving into
the multi-verse with stuff like Loki.

We now have a set of rules to
play contrast to, and with.

I think we're seeing two
paths of the multi-verse.

We have stuff that is
in-house with Loki and Sylvie.

Uh, every episode of what if that's their
own creation within the MCU of alternate

characters we already know, or franchise
hopping, which is what we've seen in

things like Spider-Man no way home.

Uh, we think we're getting some
examples in multi-verse of madness.

Those are the two different routes that
I think the MCU is going to play in.

And so,

Jude: well, all I was gonna say is
that that cyclical that I mentioned

was secret wars or the idea that
mathematically or something like

that, that all possible worlds exist.

Right?

Like we're very, it feels like
the franchise hopping you mean.

Is really leaning into those types of
theories, whereas the in world theories

and another video I watch, and I'm not
going to go through like notes line

by line on this one talked about when
you look at what strictly the in-house

EMC has done, you mentioned Loki TVA.

It was like they actually
showed it fairly accurately.

If you imagine time to use Einstein's
words, an arrow, but sorry, I'm sorry.

Not, it's not an arrow to
imagine it as a river, right.

In a river can branch off and have
things think like the really cool

animated thing for the TVA or in
game and the ancient one, right.

Where it's like this flowing
river and you get these splinters.

Oh, so it in-house, they're
using kind of like that theory

to bring in other franchises.

That's not a deviation split.

That's something completely separate,
able to somehow bridge that gap.

Trey: I think that's why we
see things like, like, well,

no, this isn't a good example.

Cause I was going to say like in
Loki you had some of the Lokeys

where it's like this Loki's taller.

This low key is actually a
permanent frost giant or this

low-key just dresses differently.

Or this Loki is as Sylvie, uh, of a
woman version of low-key themselves.

Whereas I was going to say, in other
examples, you have just bringing

in the actors like the villains
from the Raimi trilogy or the web.

Uh, I was gonna say trilogy,
just the two web films.

Uh, it's the same, same actor,
but playing a different version.

If that makes sense.

Jude: No.

No.

So the only reason why you only
don't want to say no is because like

I get it, maybe what Jamie Foxx.

Cause they were like, yeah, that was dumb.

We're just gonna let you be you
and give you a better looking suit

and they have different suits, but
they clearly remembered air quotes.

It's so weird.

The ceiling, you know, with video.

Cause I know you see me and say
like I'm doing air quotes for Trey

and nobody on here is seeing it.

But now that I've told you,
imagine me doing air quotes around

remembering, but like they remembered
what happened in the movie.

You know what I mean?

You died, you did this, you said,
you know, so that's what I mean

when I don't understand what
you mean by different version.

Because it's because it's because
they are, I took it as they

literally pulling those characters
from one universe to another.

And then going back to that same
universe, rather than just saying,

whereas like, and Wanda vision, the
whole Pietro thing where they're making

us think you're pulling in a pho from
another universe, but it's really not.

Right.

You know what I mean?

Um, even there, some of us thought,
well, maybe it is multi-verse and

it's another version, but he just
looks like you, you know what I mean?

Um, but it turned out to me there,
but that's what I mean when I

say no, it didn't make sense.

When you say another version,

Trey: I guess it gets confusing
because there are examples of it.

Same actor, different I'm already
getting confused on my own multiplex

Jude: example without having seen.

The upcoming flash and the rumors about
returning Batman, is that from another

franchise coming in or is that just a
different version, but we can lean into

it cause they previously played it.

I don't know.

Trey: I'm not going to lie you.

I had the thing to go on with
the Jamie Fox and then it's like,

yeah, they do remember stuff.

So.

I don't know if I have a point
to stand on that one anymore.

Hm.

I guess cause like with my understanding,
whenever you have these characters

coming in, say from the Raimi trilogy,
it feels like to me, because they

were plucked into no way home.

It almost has to be a different
version because they're alive.

Otherwise if they go back despite
everything, no way home did just to die

again, that doesn't feel satisfying.

If that makes sense.

Jude: Yes.

Yes.

That makes sense.

Trey: Oh, by that logic, it feels like
it's got to be same actor, different

universe, different character.

Jude: I get that.

I understand it.

But like, because you had Peter Parker.

Peter one, Peter two Peter three, like,
you know, because you had those, um,

that's clearly different versions of this
have the same person in three verses.

But, but you're right, because in what
you're saying, because it is one of those

things where it's like, because they died,
you know, it's, it's like what the Hulk

said, which was a hundred percent right.

Change my mind, um, referenced
the other episode of the podcast.

Uh, but like nachos cheese fries, um,
where he said is like, like the whole,

it's the whole idea of like, like when
you go into the past and you can't change

your future because your future hasn't
happened yet idea of end game then.

Yeah.

Fundamentally.

Yeah, I get it.

You're right.

That is becomes a different version
because that person died came over here.

And goes back still alive.

And so in, in that sense, I might argue,
I might argue, like we're going to

follow this all the way through that.

The different version
happens in the return.

Okay.

Because, cause it's like, I
was about to die and all of a

sudden in death, I came over.

Hmm.

What if that's how they get the
Fox universe characters over.

They only pull from the ones that
are dead because in that death,

that's how they transitioned
from one universe to the next.

And those that survive couldn't
because they're still have their

physical form in that universe.

Okay.

Which case I can bring.

Cause remember who died in low.

Professor X, Logan,

Trey: why aren't you
working at Marvel studios?

Huh?

I said, why are you
working at Marvel studios?

So I

Jude: like my day job.

Trey: Once again, TJ shaking his
head at the phone or screaming at his

all I was going to say, cause we've
been trying to find a way to put

this on the record using that idea.

I told you as much as Marvel studios right
now is in the give fans what they want.

Cause they're so good at fan service
with Spider-Man Noey home, seemingly with

some stuff with multi-verse of madness,
I was willing to bet you Deadpool three

is Deadpool kills the Fox universe.

Like I know that's a big comic run.

Something where he just
kills the Marvel universe.

Oh, it has to be.

What if this is their way to, that's kind
of the Fox universe and because he's about

to kill him, that's how they bring in
whatever character they want and not have

to bring everybody in using your idea.

That would be

Jude: fantastic.

That would be cool.

Again, I,

Trey: I was already tried like, cause
I know this is going to be a confusing

episode because you can't talk about the
multi-verse without it being confusing.

So I was personally going to try
and limit the tangents that I had,

but man, that was such a good idea
that I wanted to go out there.

Jude: You just, you just blew my mind.

The reason why Deadpool can come
over because you know, regeneration,

he doesn't die kind of thing, but
what's is one of our superpowers.

He's aware that he is in a
comic or a film, which is why

he breaks the fourth wall.

So he has an innate ability to cross
universes with that because he's aware

that he's just a character in a show or.

Maybe that's how they do it.

Trey: Maybe that, and again, a
lot of this, cause we had already

had this discussion off pod.

This is a way for us to
get this on the record.

If we turn out to be correct, because
this is, this will be the babe Ruth shot

of all babe Ruth shots of this podcast.

So far really

Jude: Deadpool kills the Marvel universe.

It's happening.

Lee and credits is
going to be Kevin foggy.

Trey: All it is.

It's just him with his hat,
smiling at the scratch.

You paid for this.

So I wouldn't potentially
throw in a monkey wrench here.

Okay.

We're talking about multi-verse.

Yeah.

We've, we've somewhat established,
you know, you gave your non-examples

of, of leading theories.

We brought it down to how Marvel
themselves is trying to use it.

What, how does this
conflict with the way Dr.

Strange in 2016 set up the multi-verse
because the ancient one talks about

the multi-verse, but then goes on
to depict different dimensions.

Is each, does each universe
have a dark dimension?

And that's just part of the
multi-verse or is the dark dimension

just a different part of the
multi-verse if that makes sense.

Like where's the
distinguishing line there?

Jude: I don't know, but I mean, first off,
because that would be speculation, right?

I mean, clearly it's speculation
from a number of ways, a how

aware was 5g in the MCU and 5g?

You might've been aware in the back of
his mind, but not articulated fully to

other people yet of when dark dimension.

You know, and your mama was mentioned,
I'm laying groundwork for later.

Right now, having said that, the reason
why I say even fight, you might not have

been aware things like the language.

And we saw this in assembled, right?

Of like the language used in, what if
versus the language used in Loki versus

the language used in Wanda vision.

And they're like, if I knew they
were going to call it a nexus event,

or if I knew they were going to do
this or that, you know what I mean?

I would have changed my language.

So script writing wise, dark
dimensioned Dormamuu might not have

been in the forethought of this is the
place that occupies, but to call it.

So, so in that sense,
I'm going to go this way.

I feel like because they
named it, the dark dimension.

While it's outside of clearly
out a different dimension or

realm or universe from the MCU.

Right.

Because that's the way
they established it.

They officially name it.

It's a place, the dark dimension.

Right.

And so going off of what if and the
watcher being completely outside of and

having a space to go between to view,

I want to say it's another
universe or place and just

door mom who might not know.

Because I'm imagining the
possibility of the watcher.

Being able to observe the dark
dimension the way he had deserves,

deserves, observes, anything else.

So, so yeah,

Trey: so it is a different place.

So just put it into terms
that I can understand.

We know the dark dimension within
the MCU because it's detailed in Dr.

Strange to go out on this limb with
me, let's go to the Raimi universe

is the Raimi universe, even though we
don't see it, I'm all in hypotheticals.

Now in the Ramy universe, is
there a dark dimension that's

different from the one in the MCU?

Or is that the same?

Could that be the same one
based on what you just said?

It's

Jude: the same one.

Gotcha.

Okay.

So then, because I would imagine like
at this point now that they own it.

I'm imagining the wa the
watcher being in a space.

Right?

Cause what was the fan theory that was
kind of quasi confirmed through James Gunn

was the Stanley con cameo was the watcher.

And if that's going to be cannon,
his cameos were in those Fox

universe, in Sony films that
they now know that they now own.

So like you could lean into it and
just say, well, if the watcher is

capable of going there and then
going into dark dimension and is dark

dimension, the way we talk about it,
it is a place like, and from a human

experience, we'd call it a place.

If the watcher can see that from
the outside, looking in and as part

of where he can go, then it has to
be some other world universe realm.

That's an actual place,
separate from everything else.

Trey: Okay.

That

Jude: makes sense.

That is his own.

That is his own thing.

And it's not like each world has one.

Trey: Yeah.

So that's where I was like, I was under
the impression that if, if you think

of a universe as its own little storage
container, each storage container had

its own version of the dark dimension.

But I think you just won me over
with using the watcher as an example

of being able to observe, observe
it that way, and then linking that

with the Stan Lee cameos, because
then you get into the point love.

Why would you want to get in the
weeds that way when you can just so

easily say like, no, it's, it's, it's
a place that is, I guess I'm gonna

go with this attainable from each
of those different franchise IPS.

Jude: And the only reason why we
knew it in the MCU, you'd have to

say it was the ancient one in Dr.

Strange, and, you know, Toby,
they didn't have magic that

aliens Garfield didn't have magic.

He didn't even have aliens.

Trey: I want to fight an alien.

Jude: So let you, you know what I mean?

Like, like, yeah.

So now you're talking about like, they
didn't have the capability to know.

It's not that they didn't have one
that's, that's how I think it should be,

because I think that's the easiest way.

To do a multi-verse and
integrate those other franchises.

Trey: And I think that's
something important too, for

me, at least to keep in mind.

Whenever I start thinking about this, the
ultimate goal of the multi-verse within

the MCU is to get these franchises.

I think together in a consolidated
play place, because that's where they

want to continue telling their stories.

And there's no incentive.

We talked about this with Shawn,
whenever he was on our episode,

there's no incentive to canonize or de
canonize any particular thing because

they want people to watch what they
make, regardless of it's the MCU.

But if they can set these ground
rules, anything can be the MCU.

And so it just further, it's all about
making those cohesive, consistent

routes into the main story or constant.

So that's something I think I'll try
and keep in mind, moving forward.

Jude: Now, one thing that does come to
mind that that is a potential problem

comes from the flash CW flash episodes.

Don't know how many
people have watched it.

I have not seen all the episodes.

Actually.

I loved them.

I love the CW shows, but there
was somewhere in there where it

just kind of fell off for me.

Yeah.

Got busy stuff like that.

Never returned.

Are you going to spoil it in
that CW world and in particular

with the flash, but the CW world

Trey: major spoilers for the
CW show, the flash starting

Jude: now and arrow and legends
of tomorrow and whatever else

shows that is super girl.

Um, never seen Batwoman
or black lightening.

I hear they're really good, but after
having not seen them, um, I guess in a way

I'm spoiling those two and mainly because
they do multi-dimensional jumping, it's

fantastic between all the shows they do.

Crossovers across all four shows
like this big, like four episode,

six episode event across all the
shows, but there was a problem.

Supergirl started on CBS got canceled.

Actually.

No, it didn't.

It did eventually get canceled, but it
started on CBS in the flash on the CW

came over and did like one episode, two
episodes or something with Supergirl.

But because it was on a different
network, they had to use multi-verse

ideas to hop the network.

Gotcha.

But once they established that, after
it got canceled on CBS and picked up

by CW, they've already established that
it was in a different verb multiverse.

Right?

Well, that's a quick writing fix, right?

A quick couple of lines of dialogue
and super-duper technology.

And now they go back and forth.

Universe is just like a, like it's
a revolving door, no big deal.

And it's cool to have the
individual episodes and then get

the crossover event and it's DC
content, but see CW did it, right.

Those were actually really
good shows is the CW shows.

And you have kind of the teen drama S
John rhe that, that CWS known for yes,

but they were good shows, but right there,
the revolving door aspect, it no longer

became special because it was just like,
Hey, we're going to hop over and help out.

Supergirl.

Supergirl is going to hop over
and say, I need your help.

Like, you know what I mean?

And, and it was just like,
no big deal on a whim.

You, we know you're there.

I know you're here.

We need a lecture, hand kinda
kind of, kind of mentality.

They did the same thing with
the flash and time travel.

Oh, this is cool.

We can do time travel and then season
two, then your time travel again.

And all of a sudden you're looking
at yourself as like, I'm just

fix everything with time travel.

And so they had to start creating rules
of consequences for time travel, right?

Otherwise it's like, what's the point,
fix everything with time travel.

And so that would be my problem or my
fear with what is the MCU going to do?

Is there something TVA language,
a sacred timeline or universe?

And I dabble in these other things cost,
like we're all excited to get the X-Men,

but it'd be cool to have Hugh Jackman as
Wolverine, but if I'm going to bring him

over for an, you know, a cameo or two.

Okay.

Um, am I really getting MCU?

You know, when we take a day
with home, I love doc doc.

I love Willem Defoe.

He is green goblin and
they brought him back.

Does that mean we will never see a
quote unquote MCU take on green goblin?

Cause we just kind of took her Ramy,
goblin and MCU dish unified dish

or whatever, you know what I mean?

And so that's why, like when we had JB on
her, we're talking about villains and I

was mentioning like, and I knew you had
this hesitation about, and I said, Kevin

foggy, doesn't like to use villains.

That's been used.

Trey: Do you like my clarification in the
moment now, now that we can talk about it?

Jude: Yeah.

Oh, I knew what you were getting
at, but I was trying to ignore it.

I mean, I mean, the reason why I was
trying to ignore it is cause like it

is that fine line of like, he doesn't
reuse villains of like, he doesn't

like, we didn't see an MCU dot.

It was vulture.

It was Mysterio.

And if we're doing multi-verse,
he's not reusing an old villain,

he's crossing multiverse of lines.

That character exists.

You know what I mean?

And so that's what I had in my head
when I said that, what does that mean?

Now?

We'll never get a real original
MCU take on that character.

That feels a little problematic for me.

You basically did Ramy part three again,
and put a whole bunch of villains in it

that we see the one time and it's gone.

It was cool.

I loved it, but it, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And so one of the problems I'm
wondering, how does the MCU

and Kevin Vikki deal with it?

So

Trey: based off everything you just
said that like, I have so many different

directions I want to go with first.

I'm so glad they have set down
to establish rules for how they

want to handle the multi-verse.

Cause that seems to be important based
off I've never seen any of the CW

shows have no plans to, but that seems
really important based off what you

said, where it didn't seem like there
was a plan and a few weeks ago, maybe

a month ago, I believe Joe Russo came
out and spoke about how, if you just

keep doing the multi-verse eventually
it's going to lose its luster.

It needs to feel like
an event now I'm okay.

If this phase four really wants to
hammer home the multi-verse cause it's

equal parts, flash and equal parts, like
educating the audience and then maybe.

Not necessarily table it, but like make
it less and less apparent until it builds

to whatever this new saga ends up being
like the new Infiniti saga, like it's

somehow tied to the multi-verse, but
we don't need to go through it again,

like in phase five, until we come back
to hypothetically phase six, right on

top of that, you went into the route
about the, does this mean if we get Hugh

Jackman saying multi-verse madness if
we get that, does that mean we won't get

an original X-Men it makes me feel like
some of the conversations we had with

Spider-Man no way home where I asked you,
did we miss our shot with the sinister.

Like, what is it going to feel redundant
to have got this team of, uh, five

villains and then maybe a few years later.

Oh, okay.

Now we're going to do six villains.

It, it just feels like it's kind of
watered down the moment and to bring it a

little bit more back to the multi-verse.

What makes it extra hard to run this
thought exercise with, there are feelings

that were done with Spider-Man just
because of the license with, uh, or the

agreements with Sony where, you know, it's
funny, no way homes become this polarizing

thing where half the people think like,
oh, that was Spiderman sendoff in the MCU

saying like, we know we're not going to
be able to control this character anymore.

And other people are like, no, they're
gearing up for more Spider-Man movies.

This is clearly resetting them
to play within the MCU without

having to be tied to other stories.

Jude: Yeah.

Right.

I I'm, I hope it's that I'm so
excited that you're going to sever.

That Spiderman from the really
good content they had in the MCU.

Why would we want that to be connected?

Yeah, please.

Let's let's, let's start over, you
know, arguably the best take on

Spider-Man that we've seen on film.

Okay.

Trey: I think that's, future-proofing
just in case heads at different

studios pulled their toys away.

All that being said, that's what makes
it hard to be like a thought exercise.

Cause we don't know what's part of
their rules as the multi-verse and

what's part of like them having to work
with having this agreement with Sony.

Yeah.

Jude: I still, I still
hate the nigga no way home.

Anyways, I just do it
because it just, I don't see.

And I get it.

I'm not FYGI.

I mean, I know he listens.

Um, and I get it, like, you can be
a super fan, but I just, I can't

see where they're going with it.

Cause I think Amy Pascal and Vikki came
out and saying like, we don't worry.

Right?

Like this isn't the end.

We like, they tried to squash
all that, that worrying

speculation and get ahead of it.

I just don't know how else to read
that ending because that is, yes,

you are free from the MCU now.

No one remembers.

Right.

But also again, and that's fine, you
know, unless they have some weird way

that they're gonna bring them back,
you know, and these memories, but

so you mean to tell me now the
really cool moment between.

Carol Danvers and Peter Parker.

What?

She doesn't remember that.

Hi, I'm Peter Parker.

Hello, Peter Parker.

You know, I get the, the criticism.

I don't agree with it.

The crew, citizen criticism
of like iron man Jr.

You know, when the star
tech and I get that,

the reason why I don't,
I don't care about it.

It's because it is, it's a
different take on Spiderman, right?

It's it's like, yeah, that's not
what Spider-Man is in the comment

and there, and you could argue that
like now he truly is his own person.

Right.

You know, I get it in the symbolism
of like, I'm truly not with stark now

because I don't have his cool suit
and I get the crappy one at the end.

I'm bitter right now, about as
much as it lives in, maybe I'm

bitter about a lot of things.

Trey: Stay on target, stay on

Jude: target.

Yeah.

I mean, but like the it's like, did
you, you undid like the pepper pots, new

Parker and the relationship there and
the moments that they shared in grief

of Stark's death, he remembers it posh.

Doesn't like, you know what I mean?

And so there's all of that stuff that it's
like, that's like, I don't like the story

where it makes all of that irrelevant.

And so that's, that's my, that's my thing
of like, when you start going down these

roads and multi-verse when you start going
down these roads of, of the time-travel

and again, multi-verse magic, we're going
to do this and it opens up some doors

and possibilities, but soda's character
development of like he says, no, I can't

run and just magically fix my problem.

I will face the consequences.

You know what I mean?

Like, to me that was a much better and
more compelling ending of like where

the growth of the character goes.

Now, again, I w I don't want to, I'm going
to side step away from Spiderman now for

a sec, you know, for, for the sake of the
multi-verse in the episode, but it's like,

it's like, that's a choice that
doing what I would rather have

happened had happened a choice that
says here's the main MCU, right.

And this is what we're
going to do in phase five.

As you said, we're going to
emphasize the multi-verse and then

move on to something different.

You know what I mean?

Trey: Not necessarily that
it's never talked about again,

it's just not the focus.

Jude: It's an awkward right where
it's like right now, at least it

feels like they're really just.

It's a multi-verse and we're just
going to play in this area forever.

Like that's the feeling, you know,
if I, the Netflix shows now, which I

think are great, but are they going to
explain that with the multi-verse theory?

Yeah.

So

Trey: there's, there's again, we're
running all these thought experiments.

These are thought experiments
that they, this is the meeting

apparently they had in July of 2021.

Uh, and I put a bow on that because I know
you said you wanted to get to other stuff

for the sake of the multi-verse topic.

I still hold onto the belief.

Spider-Man no way.

Home is a reactionary thing to the
disagreement between Disney and Sony.

And this was how they made nice
to continue having Spiderman.

I think, despite I love no way home.

The.

Let's say thorns in our side of
the way, this has come to an end

with, with the future of Spider-Man.

To me, that is a, a sign of what could go
wrong when there isn't a plan, because it

felt like the plan was being made as the
plane was still flying with Peter Parker.

Yeah.

All that being said, moving on, as we
continue running thought experiments on

the different ways the MCU is handled the
multi-verse right now, I actually want

to circle back to one division because
the further we get away from it, and the

more that I've had time to think about
it, it seems to keep getting grouped

into all these multi-verse discussions.

I don't think Wanda vision was as
multi-verse as everybody makes it

to be, because the biggest aspect
of what it was was Quicksilver.

But that turned out to not be the case.

It was another fake out
akin to far from home.

I I'm putting this out there to kind
of like run this experiment with you.

Do you consider one division
to be multi-verse related?

Jude: I actually don't

Trey: the only caveat I would add to
my belief of it not being, I think it

ends teasing the multi-verse, where she
hears her two children as she's doing the

meditation while reading the dark hold.

But up until that point, nothing seemed
multi-verse related to me because what

we find out is that she was warping the.

Simulations of that small
town, she had enveloped.

So it wasn't necessarily like, oh,
they're popping into different universes.

It's almost like she's running her
own little computer program that

these, uh, citizens are playing

Jude: along with.

Yeah.

Like Westview was her
creation using chaos magic.

Yeah.

And so there was no multi-verse stuff.

Uh, I agree in tag, they teased
it, but that, to me, like the only

connection was you, she had the dark
hold and she had her power upgrade.

Yeah.

The show itself, I don't think
had anything to do with the, the

multiverse, you know, and I know.

Dr strange, where he is supposed
to show up and different stuff

and trying to contact her.

Right.

And I'm glad that didn't happen.

I think that actually would
have taken away from it.

Now that I think about the show and
think about how not multi-verse it was,

Trey: yeah.

Kevin FIHI on the record, but
I'll try to make sure to link

the report in the show notes.

Kevin fight you on the record
mentioned what you had just said

about wanting to originally have Dr.

Strange, uh, appear in the show as
the commercials, and then ultimately

decided to do away with that
idea to keep it focused on Wanda.

Yeah.

Jude: And, okay.

So in talking about these shows
low-key I think is the last, the

last one we should really make
sure it gets mentioned and right.

Multi-verse wise the
two biggest questions.

I think that's remaining at the
end where it was low-key or when

was low-key it wasn't clear because
it is the time variant authority.

So clearly.

So in other words, if you think about
the TVA and what they were doing and

trimming, you know, and what I was
mentioned about like, um, the flowing

river with divergence and to stick with
that analogy, the TVA then is like the

rivers arched, a split here while they put
a dam to make sure it can't, and then I'm

going to take all that water, scoop it up
and just dump it in the void at the end.

You know what I mean?

Like, like that's kind of to maintain
the one river and kind of control it.

Um, the

Trey: TVA is time beavers.

I love it.

Jude: Nice.

I want a picture of a
beaver wearing a TVA hat.

I creating a dam.

Um, oh, if you're listening,
TJ, uh, no, we should have

just had them on for this one.

I know.

He's like he's in his shop, cutting
wood and listening to us and just like.

Trey: Yeah, there is a universe
where we were able to stick to

our schedule and TJ was on there.

So states here and for whenever
we get into our phase four and we

start bringing in episodes from
that alternate universe, right.

Jude: You know what actually had
to talk with TJ the other day.

And I was like, dude, we want you
back as like, but I understand you're

getting busy and stuff and, you know,
um, and yeah, he understood, but the

other thing on not to low-key thing,
but w TVA clearly it's a place.

Where is it located?

Is it similar to what I said
with, uh, the dark dimension?

Like it has to be located
somewhere, you know?

Uh, cause you're what they had
so many infinity stones and we

learned from plot holes, I guess.

I don't know.

We learned from Loki that no, from.

What if the infinity stones has
to be in there for appropriate

universe for them to work, right.

I'm going to stop there cause I
can really go down a rabbit hole

that I, we don't have time for.

Uh, but I think multi-verse wise.

Those are the two biggest questions.

The

Trey: only thing I want to play off of
that you just sparked for me is when

you asked the question, low-key when it
ends where or when is low-key as this

like an alternate universe, because
if you don't remember how Loki ended.

In the original part of the show,
they have these huge statues

dedicated to the timekeepers, Loki
and Sylvia go about their ventures.

They meet up with, uh, he who remains.

They ultimately decide to kill him.

Loki gets pushed back into the
TVA and when he gets back, it's

not timekeeper statutes anymore.

It's he who remains or making a
speculative speculative jump Kang by

definition of the timekeepers, they
have to exist outside the universes

because that's how they maintain
a scope on which ones to prove.

Like, to me, it's, it's almost like
the watcher where they have to be

outside of it all to have any sort of
context for the different universes.

So it feels like it can't be an
alternate universe that Loki has

been pushed back to because they're
already outside of the universes.

If that makes sense.

So I'm very curious to see how
that aspect of the multi-verse is

going to play out and what that
means for the MCU moving forward.

Yeah.

Jude: And they have to have a plan.

Those will I say that is like,
they announced season two.

That was the, I'm not going to say intact.

There was not an intact, that was like
the graphic at the end of the credits.

Trey: Um, Loki we'll return.

I think they said Sylvie rule
return or something like that.

But

Jude: I mean, but that's
the, that's the thing, right?

Like that they, they announced
in the last, in the last

episode, there's a season two.

How do you start developing
and writing those scripts?

If you don't know what's happening in all
these other movies, you know what I mean?

So, yeah.

Yeah.

You got to what, I guess he's the
script writer just kind of waits.

Okay.

And you're gonna let
me read the script now.

You

Trey: know, there's yeah, there's
definitely no way they can pull

like a star wars, new trilogy.

Like they have to have this plan
if it's going to make sense.

Cause it's not just telling
one story, they're telling

multiple stories at this point.

If there's not a guiding force
through it, that's going to get

very confusing very quickly.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we have gone through these
different thought exercises.

You've detailed the nine different
examples of the multi-verse that

we, in our limited, limited scope,
understand it to be, we've talked about

the different ways that the MCU seems
to be handling it with the different

in-house examples of the multi-verse
think captain America agent, or think

captain America, captain Carter, Sylvie,
Loki, all those are in-house examples.

Or you have the franchises, which is.

Tom Holland, Peter Parker, Andrew
Garfield, Toby Maguire, Peter

Parker, all those different
franchise hopping universes.

We've talked about the need for a
cohesive plan to be able to guide

us through the multi-verse as they
continue to tell their stories.

This brings us, I think, to one of
the last thought experiments that I

want to have with the multi-verse.

Is Sam Raimi, Mark Webb and the Sony
villain verse after no way home.

Now, part of the MCU and to be perfectly
clear, this isn't like gatekeeping,

like Canon, what is, or it isn't,
this is more to just help detail the

understanding that we have so far.

Do you think that's now
part of the MCU cannon?

Oh,

Jude: I'm going to gatekeep and save.

Only because I've watched the
Morbius trailer a couple of times,

and I don't want that crossing over.

Trey: I'm listen, I, my heart is actually
where you're at and I'm totally going to

change, but it's more, it's more trying
to like, what is the difference between

a plucked character and a constant.

Like, is there a difference?

Are we getting in the weeds?

Like the fact that venom was plucked out
of his movies, into the MCU got drunk

and then was sent back to his universe.

Does that mean like, we
don't have to be burdened?

I say we as though I'm
part of Marvel studios.

Does that mean CU?

Uh, does that mean the MCU doesn't
have to be burdened with whatever

storylines that have been told yet
they can still find their way to

have the character come and play and
then go back without getting muddied.

I think

Jude: the answer is yes.

Yeah.

And the reason why I say that is the
way, because you just said venom was

plucked, came in the MCU and came out.

Right.

Well, we know that that's how they
got venom into the MCU because

you had that little drop, a venom.

Is somehow in Mexico and going
to find its way to Spider-Man.

It

Trey: was last seen with Denny Rojas.

Danny Rojas is going to
meet up with Ted lasso.

Ted lasso is going to visit
America when he comes back home.

And none of this makes sense to you
until you watched it last night.

Jude: No, I haven't watched
Ted lasso and you're right.

So none of that makes sense to me,
but the idea that like Ted lasso

is in the MCU, I can go there.

I mean, that's not hard, right?

That's like, you know, Avengers
compound, and they're watching one

of their football games on the TV and
cheering on whatever English, premier

league, he team club coaches for.

Trey: Jokes aside.

I think it was very easy to say
no villain verse, not Morbius has

its own complication with Adrian
tombs, apparently showing up.

We don't really have a concrete answer
for how Adrian Toomes shows up in

the Morbius universe because that's
not taking into account no way home.

So that's still up in the air.

Let's move over to a fan.

Favorite Sam Raimi.

Those are good movies.

Yeah.

So it's, it's not even just like
a, oh, that those movies sucked.

Don't bring them in these, you
know, it, I'm still on that

same camp with the Raimi movies.

Yes.

Me McGuire has come into the MCU,
but it being plucked from his own

universe has created a different one.

So for me, with my understanding
of the multi-verse so far, that

doesn't necessarily mean now
the Sam Raimi movies are MCU.

Jude: Right?

I would, I honestly, I
would not consider him.

I would say, I just thought it
was trying to decide if this is a

plot hole for no way home or not.

But anyways, does MJ and Ned
not remember all Peter Parker's

or just their Peter Parker?

Trey: I would assume all Peter
Parker's because that's what stops

the other villains and knowing
Peter Parker from coming in.

Jude: So if that's the case, then
I would say can't be Canon because

they don't remember it happened.

It's another universe.

And if there was a memory of them
coming in, there's a knowledge

that that universe exists.

And while it's not MCU proper, there's
a knowledge of the characters of knowing

that it exists because it came from.

Does that make sense?

But I don't know if you would say like
the events that took place in those

universes are canned into the MCU.

There's just now knowledge
because it crossed,

Trey: right.

Because they don't know Peter Parker,
but they know Spider-Man fought

goblin doc from different universes.

Yeah.

Well maybe they don't know
the different universes part,

but they know that happened.

Right.

So I guess it all just depends on
how far the public knowledge goes

with the events of no way home.

Jude: Right.

And so like, if they forgot that, that
even, even that any of that even happened

at the end, if that's, what's included
in for getting Peter Parker, otherwise

you have three Spiderman running around
and they don't know that they're Peter

Parker, but there's three, right.

There's three Spiderman running
around and all of a sudden you were

there when they were sent back.

Yeah.

You or they, they vanished or
vape, you know, ghost at all.

So you either had to forget that as well,
or just know that there was Spiderman if

we get to the repeater parkers, but the
only way that that's the thing, the only

way that they know about those characters
is remembering the, those events.

Trey: Right.

Jude: If they don't remember
them, they didn't happen.

Trey: I guess time's going to tell what
that one, if we get more Spider-Man

movies to explore it in the MCU.

Yeah.

Jude: Do you know why it happened?

And you mean you wouldn't make my, to
make my argument as to why now that

I've argued that it's not MC Canon,
you want me to try to make an argument

that it is MC cannon go for it.

Okay, cool.

So, um,

I'm going to dip into my own
personal thoughts a little bit on

like, and I've said it a couple of
weeks, like I'm cannon, I'm kidding.

I'm Catholic, right?

Trey: You're a Canon.

And

Jude: you didn't tell me, was Dr.

Strange in the memory smell you need it.

Trey: Did you really
just take a drink after?

Jude: So

Trey: you

Jude: were midpoint, um,

as mentioned, I do that all the time.

The only thing reason why, you know now
is cause we had the video, the video

Trey: wasn't it's editor's choice.

If you want to find a creative
way to keep this into the edit.

Jude: All right.

So my.

Now to try to argue that it is cannon.

Okay.

Yep.

And I made this whole thing about
like memory and not remembering.

And if you don't remember it
doesn't exist and yes, I've made

it known on the, on the podcast.

I am Catholic.

Right.

And just fact, yeah.

So in my own personal part of
like justification for belief

and those types of things, right.

The whole like proof, the existence of
God, you know, the most compelling one

to me and notice I'm saying the most
compelling to me, I realize it's not

gonna be compelling to other people.

I realize you can question
and all that stuff.

It's just what I find most compelling.

Right.

And I'm okay with that is, is
actually an argument from memory.

And so the way it would go is
to say we live and then we die.

And then we experienced what we, you
know, a second death, so to speak, which

is the last time anybody ever says our
name and the further away generationally,

like my kids all remember me.

Right.

But when they have grandkids, well,
if I die before I have grandkids,

I have, before I have grandkids
before my kids have crickets,

they're not going to know me.

They're only going to know me
through stories of them and pictures.

Right.

And so that just speeds it up.

So eventually we can get far
enough away from my first death and

second death that nobody remembers.

So at that point, if nobody remembers
I existed and I really exist,

no one knows that I was alive.

And I was here that I
didn't, you know what I mean?

So, I mean, in this sense, the pod is
my posterity in mortality, my voice name

and all this stuff is going to be on the
internet long after my death right now.

So now imagine like, you know, the
peasants in England in like, you know,

Henry the eighth time, 1516th century,
you know, back when yes, the winners, I

always find it funny who writes history,
the winners, uh, let's be very clear.

It is the wealthy winners, the
literate winners, not the poor winners.

Right.

You know, peasant, Bob is not writing
a journal and we're not researching

peasant Bob, but let's take present.

We can imagine that there was a peasant
at that time, 15 hundreds, you know,

maybe even participated in the Northern
revolt against hinder the eighth.

I don't know.

I'm making something up.

I historically know
about hinder the eighth.

I historically know the
16 hundreds happened.

I historically know about the Northern
revolt against Henry the eighth.

I don't know every peasant that was
involved or even the peasants are like,

whatever, dude, I just want to farm,
you know, and do my part for society.

Cause divine right.

Of Kings God wills, it kind of thing.

You know what I mean?

And I don't know.

We don't know if they existed,
nobody wrote about them.

Right.

And so you give them this point of like
you, the further far enough you get away.

We it's, there's people that have
existed that we don't remember.

And I'm in theory,
bringing up this person.

Right.

So at this point in history,
Did they really exist now?

And the reason why I put it that way
is to say from the, my compelling proof

of God is to say, well, there's, I
want to say that they do, but if we're

individual people with concrete experience
experiences, you know, and, and, and truly

concrete, something has to remember us.

And that's something has God, right.

Is that compelling to everyone?

Probably not.

It's compelling to me.

You know, the reason why after my
second death I am going to endure

is because God still remembers me.

And from a Catholic standpoint,
we'd say, yeah, he in creation,

he is existence itself and holds
everything continually in existence.

And the eternal now, and divine Providence
for knowledge and all of that stuff.

So I made the argument that it
didn't happen and not Canon because

no one remembers, but who did we
say can go around and watch all

the dimensions and the water.

So there is somebody or something
that does know what happened, even

if we don't and can in fact have a
experience and memory of all those

universes, which then from a memory
standpoint, it has to be cannon.

Is he our surrogate who
gets to decide cannon?

Is it us as Watchers?

You know what I mean?

Like for something to have happened,
we have to have known about it.

Right?

It has to have some kind of memory.

Otherwise it's just speculation.

You know, for me, I call
that in our own experience.

God, but in the MCU, that's
what the watcher does.

So if that's the case, then it
has to be doesn't it, it has to.

So yeah, whichever one, you find
more compelling, it may or may not

be compact or not meet Concannon.

Trey: You know what?

My favorite thing about
this episode is so.

Well, I think we have condensed every
forum argument about the multi-verse

about cannon into one episode.

So you're either like finding
like aspects of what you're like.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or you're getting very frustrated and you
pointed out, I think it's all just valid.

Like I can make, I can see the argument
for like, oh, those aren't cannon.

And I just, you just blew me away
with your argument on it is cannon.

Jude: Which one do you
find most compelling and go

and go enjoy your content.

Oh,

Trey: man, that was great.

Like I, cause I've, I've
talked about it before.

I think this happened whenever we
were doing the, uh, How important

are the Disney plus shows my goal.

Whenever it comes to building a structure
of an episode is like, I want to have

not necessarily a definitive answer,
but I want to have an answer towards

what the thesis of the episode is.

But I think sometimes you run into
these scenarios where it is like,

yeah, it's, it's hard to tell
and I'm not dogging this episode.

I'm just glad, like, I, that
was, that was a fun divergence.

We just took throughout every
possible example of the multi-verse.

Yeah.

Jude: Well, I would
like to think big Sandy.

No,

Trey: um, you just blew my mind.

So that was a, that was really good.

Thank you for sharing that.

Jude: I appreciate that.

I'm ha you know what, that's why I'm here.

I'm here.

Certainly not.

Well,

well the first one.

Okay.

Trey: Yeah.

Bring them on.

Maybe there is an alternate
universe where we do have sponsors

Jude: unlimited Topo Chico.

Trey: Well, if you want to weigh
in on some of the thought exercises

that we had today, uh, feel free
to reach us at MC need to know

both on Twitter and Instagram.

Before we go, though, we
mentioned at the top of the

episode, this is moon night week.

So we wanted to take a survey of where
people are coming into the show in regards

to their knowledge of the character.

We're going to read through some of the
responses we got when we asked that on

social media, starting with this one,
he's been one of my favorite characters

since the 1970s and eighties, he was
just so different from anyone else

I read when I was a kid that comes
in from, at S S Lilo's on Twitter.

And so I had the chance to interact
with them from our Twitter account.

And it was just so exciting that this
person has known about this character

for so long and just kind of like
vicariously living through them of

like, man, I can only imagine what that
feeling is like to have been familiar

with the character and now seeing
it being adapted for our screens.

Jude: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Cause I I'll be honest for the, for
the comics that I did read growing up,

moon Knight was not one of them, you
know, and I don't mean that in like.

Oh, man.

I, it just wasn't, you know, I was much
more mainstream and actually probably

read more DC when I was younger.

Uh, the next one, not at all.

Kevin watched Instagram.

Um, clearly Kevin, I just said
like, I I'm with you on that.

Trey: This next one comes in
from Ben dot Mattie on Instagram.

And it says, I know the basic
bits, it's the MCU who knows

what's going to happen to him.

Ben, Maddie, I think has one of the
most realistic approaches so far.

Like yeah, but again, it's
probably going to be different.

It has the source material of the
comics, but you know, who knows?

Jude: Yeah.

Well, and, and the thing, what I love
about that though, and you know, I've

been, Maddie has responded enough that
I feel like I can say this without

coming across as putting words in
your mouth, there's still a trust

that like, even with the changes.

They're going to be good.

Like they've earned.

That doesn't mean it won't, it
doesn't mean they can't disappoint

us, but they've earned it.

They earned the trust on the changes

Trey: 100%.

Jude: Okay.

That was it.

My time.

Did you, you just should've been Maddie.

Yeah, very, because I listened to MCU.

J Hubbard on Insta.

Trey: I love that you have
started to, uh, respond to the

questions that we put out there.

Jude: I completely, I completely didn't
think you're going to respond back.

Like I thought you were just going
to kibble and not even there.

I didn't, I actually didn't expect to
see it on the side of this, the, uh,

outline or in the Instagram response

Trey: one.

That was one of the reasons
why I was totally comfortable

with being like, oh yeah, your
checks in the mail on Instagram.

Cause I would not have made that joke
with any of the other listeners too.

I've put it on the outline, but I didn't
run through the turns that we took.

I did not intend for you,
but that is so funny.

Oh man, that is so good, but good.

I'm glad he listened to the show.

So that's a, that's why
you're very familiar with.

Thanks to JB.

Absolutely moving onto the next one.

This one comes in from caption
life on Instagram as well.

And it reads not at all
reading some comics now for it.

And again, that's, that seems to be
Shawn's emo is the, uh, the research

before the dive into the show.

So that's really cool.

And, uh, glad to hear you're
going through the comics.

Yeah.

Oh, it's

Jude: so funny.

Cause like, I kind of feel
like I'm the opposite.

How so?

Like if I haven't read the, if
I haven't read the comic, I'm

like, I'm going to experience the
show and I'll do the comic after.

So it's just interesting.

It's just interesting.

The interesting, the different
types of approaches to, um,

Trey: I think that's the spirit of
the show that we've tried to created

here is that like we're MCU first and
we'll come back to the comics at some

point, uh, maybe dabble into some pretty
broad knowledge, but uh, I'm with you.

I'd rather experience it through the
MCU first and then read comics later.

I

think

Jude: about like civil war,
because I did read that.

An infinity war and I read that comic.

And so I've had the experience of both.

Um, and so I just, I find that fascinating
and interesting of like, just again, how

people like to consume their content,

vague memories of comics
from childhood friend Daniel.

I get it.

I mean, I'm getting old too.

And memories of a lot of things.

Trey: I had vague memories of
when we started this episode.

So, uh, yeah, that one comes in
from old Daniel on Instagram.

Oh man.

He's going to hate me.

Yeah.

Jude: But no, I mean, it's the same thing.

Like it just goes to show like what
I was saying earlier about yeah.

I read some comics, but
that wasn't mainstream.

Characters, right.

Like, I wasn't, well, I read comics.

I wasn't so into it, like where
I'm getting the moon nights.

I was like, no, I'm getting X, man.

I'm getting Batman, I'm
getting Superman, you know?

Oh, here's a cool Spider-Man issue.

You, you know what I mean?

Like it wasn't like, Ooh,
moon night and, and, you know,

grabbing Robbins of the thing.

That weren't hitting the mainstream.

Um, I have my theories as to why,
but we're at the end of the episode.

So I'm gonna leave that alone.

Cool.

Well,

Trey: we'll revisit that at
some point, so yeah, again,

thank you all for reaching out.

When we asked, uh, how familiar you are
with moon night, going into the show

again, moon night, debuts, March 30th.

So the next time you hear us, we are
going to be reviewing the first episode of

moon night and we are both very excited.

Jude: Absolutely.

Trey: Yeah.

So again, if.

Again, if you want to get in, on
helping shape the show, make sure

you're following us at MC you need to
know both on Twitter and Instagram.

We'll be putting out questions and
polls and just various opportunities

for you to weigh in so that we
can read them here on the podcast.

Jude: Yeah.

And of course, scroll down to the bottom.

You can find the link to the discord in
our show notes and you can join us and

interact with, I always feel guilty saying
this because I have not been interacting

as much as I been, but interact with
us, interact with the community.

The school year is coming
close to an end for me.

And I'm so excited to start ramping
back up my conversations on that.

Uh,

Trey: it's almost going
to be like a Baton pass.

You're you're about to get some
free time I'm about to enter my busy

Jude: season.

Right.

And it's like, I was like,
oh gosh, just make it here.

Make it here.

Be done with my grades.

You know, uh, cause I miss
it, but there's a lot of great

conversations going on in there.

Um, and those of you that are already
in there, I do try to catch up and read,

uh, super excited to get back on it.

If you weren't a discord
kind of person, that's okay.

You can still help us out by sharing
with a friend, a rating and review apple

and Spotify as well as it's something
that they've offered about a month now.

Um, yeah.

So yeah, that is a fantastic way.

If discord is not your thing.

Yeah.

Trey: We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy
for the use of our theme song, which

is his rendition of the Avengers theme.

You can find more of his work
on a SoundCloud, which is linked

in the show notes as well.

That's going to do it.

Thank you so much for listening and June.

Thank you so much for doing this.

We'll see.

Well,

Jude: Now there is one thing that
I, as I start talking and very

unprofessionally foot hold up.

Yeah.

Trey: All the red flags
in my head just went off.

I was like, oh no, he's
got something in his mouth.

Oh no, he's getting away from the mic.

Jude: Oh no, he's standing up.

Yeah.

Like I start talking and come back
out of my paws and I put like one my

earbuds in my mouth, which is gross.

And then like, I like stand
up and you hear the search and

you hear the squeaky, my chair.

And, and as soon as I started it,
I'm like, what, what am I doing?

Trey: Wait, you know, most people have a
microphone, but it turns out UCAR vocoder.

When it comes to talking on the podcast,
you think it'll be easy to learn how

to auto tune before this episode comes

Jude: out.

Maybe.

All

Trey: right, you get to.