Trey: Hello, and welcome back to another
episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast

dedicated to the Marvel Cinematic
Universe and everything you need to know.

I'm Trey!

Jude: I'm Jude.

I almost said I'm Judey
Booty just to mess with you.

I realize, you know, cause even
friend Daniel sent me a message.

Like, I can't believe you left that
in my sister's been calling me that

all my life, like that's just normal.

Trey: I didn't know that.

Jude: Yeah.

Like it's like what's best for the pod.

Uh, felt like an editing,
just leaving that in there.

So here we are.

Trey: We all appreciate you for it.

Jude: Yeah.

I'm not, I'm not changing
away from JHubbit though.

As far as like discord
and all that other stuff.

Um, that JHubbit it
stays, but that's fine.

Trey: I wouldn't take that away from you.

I'm going to be peppering in a
Judy booty every now and then.

Well, you know, it's so funny that
you were going to throw that in there

because I've been thinking about a lot
how not necessarily routine, but I say

the same thing every time we opened
up an episode and there's a part of me

that wants to find a way to shake it up.

You do it throwing into Judy booty
every now and there would be great.

Jude: There you go.

I'll do that.

Cool.

Trey: I'll see if I

Jude: can come up with one for me.

Yeah.

Oh, we're just gonna made up names.

I'm the stream.

Uh, she, even with that, I
go with J helmet, but okay.

Oh man.

Trey: Well, you know what, it's,
it's always a weird feeling when

we do back to back episodes and we
have this banter section because

it's like, we just did this.

We just got

Jude: up.

What do you want from, I know
like what we'll see you again.

Well, it's, it's like that realization
that when I was like, oh, Hours

of us out there on the internet.

And let's just talking, uh, which, which
means like, as we're recording it back to

back, um, someone's going to come across
Hawkeye in real time in terms of when

it's released and they're going to listen.

So we got, we're doing the
separate episodes where

we're thinking of the future,

Trey: the backlog as we call them.

Yeah, yeah,

Jude: yeah.

In new listeners that find
us and go through the back.

We truly appreciate you.

Yeah.

How's

Trey: 2022.

Let us know.

Please, please be better please.

Jude: Right?

Trey: Well, of course, if you downloaded
this episode, then you know, we're going

to be talking about season one episode,
two of Hawkeye titled hide and seek.

So the way we're going to do this is we've
got some pre spoiler thoughts for you.

We will get into the episode
without spoiling it, and then

you'll hear an audio cue, which
will take us into the spoiler zone.

So before we get there, Jude,
do you have any pre spoiler

thoughts for episode two of

Jude: Hawkeye?

Uh, yeah, so like I mentioned that I
thought this was a good, uh, and the

priests, the priests rollers, thoughts
that we posted on social media, that it

was a good blend totally of that Netflix
Daredevil in the MCU and what I, what

I, I want to clarify that a little bit.

What I mean by that is two.

Um, it feels, especially when you think
about Loki and even Falcon in the winter

soldier, this feels very grounded.

Yeah.

You're in New York, you're in the city.

Uh, it's feels very dark and
gritty, but it doesn't lose

that MCU charmers aesthetic.

Also, if you go back, you know,
the backlog is go back and listen

to because it's going to become
relevant after Spiderman, no way home.

Um, our season one review of Daredevil
that we started with, um, We talked about

those episodes, having this AB cadence,
like you had to see two episodes together.

And I feel like this is, is one
of them, uh, same thing there it's

like episode one, episode one,
and two definitely are a pair.

So I think you can listen to our
first episode on episode one, we,

I, we started mentioning are kind of
holding back a little bit of getting

into episode two and that's just
because they pair so well together.

So, so yeah.

Appreciate all their thoughts.

Trey.

My preschool

Trey: is that for this episode is it feels
like there are a lot of callous wounds

at play here, but, you know, I mentioned
the clunkiness of episode, one being

made up for, with sincerity sincerity.

And this episode is becoming a healing
cell for our characters and that is

a wholesome place for this series
to be going that I wasn't expecting.

Um, and I like it a lot.

Um, The other pre spoiler thought
I have is that Kate and Clint are

clearly a very strong dynamic.

And I'm so glad that this
episode gets them working

together and how they work alone.

So it, it is the, I guess if I could
put it this with a call to action of all

the setup they did in the first episode.

So in that sense, the AB cadence
that you were invoking is definitely

felt within my notes as well.

So yeah, that's where I'm going to leave
it before we get into the spoiler zone.

So.

Like we said, you're
gonna hear an audio cue.

And on the other side, it'll be
fair game for all spoilers in the

MCU, excluding the internals, but
we'll see you on the other side

and we're back.

So we're going to break this down
into the most important topics and the

first one will be reluctant teamwork.

So this section is going to be used to
highlight the working relationship between

Clint and Kate, as they learn to work
together and figure out what they're

going to do about the missing Ronan suit.

So starting with you, Jude,
where would you like to start

with a reluctant teamwork?

Jude: Reluctant teamwork
section detailed relationships.

We collate in Clint.

Okay.

I'm going to share with us something
that bothered me about this and it's not.

Like, like, I didn't like the show
or something in there because I

actually, I really enjoyed it.

But part of me was just like,
you know, Clint, your desire

to track down that suit.

People are going to put two
and two together and feel as

you were the one wearing it.

Like, like there's an element of
isn't it a little bit fishy that

there was that Avengers compound
and you're the one tracking it down.

Uh, it's so important
to you to track it down.

So yeah, there's, there's, there's
that, that didn't quite sit white with

me, but it was one of those things
where like, I'm going to let that slide

because I'm really enjoying this episode.

Trey: I'm going to go
out on that limit you.

And I'm going to read my notes straight.

I have a feeling that Kate
finding out that Clint is Ronan

will be a huge emotional moment,
but I am slightly disappointed.

They really haven't established
a reason for Kate to believe why

the suit is so important to Clint
beyond just stopping the bad guy.

Right.

So it's a very thin.

Reason where anybody could really put
two and two together, like you said.

Yeah.

Jude: Well, and, and again, Campbell,
and the story in Dan Harmon and

the story circle hero's journey,
story circle, like there's going

to be, and you don't really see it.

Um, and I feel like the first
episode was misnamed or this

whole never meet your hero.

Yeah.

The episode when she finds out and has
that kind of apifany glass shattering

moment of like, you're not perfect.

Cause you know, that's coming that
I think should have been the title

episode for never meet your hero.

Um, but it's, it's basic
stages of relationship, right?

Like you have this infatuation from
a four, um, you build somebody up on

a pedestal, even when you first get
to know them, how wonderful they are.

And the next thing, you know, like
the relationship typically should

end the stage to disappointment.

Right?

All of a sudden this they're not
the person you really thought they

were, or you built them up to me.

Um, you know, and, and typically
that's the relationship ends or you

accept them as a human being and
they accept you and there's growth

and you grow in a relationship.

Um, and not romantic, like it can be
romantic, but we do that with our friends.

Yeah.

All relationships.

Yeah.

And so it, and so like,
yeah, you know, what's

Trey: coming, but you know,
something that's coming to me

now, you know, I was, I was, I was
saying it was a disappointment, but

I'm maybe putting this together.

We had that long conversation last
episode about parasocial relationships.

Maybe it is something that is supposed
to be a red flag, but because of

the way, like you said, she has put
them on the pedestal is being swept

under the rug, which will make that
revelation that much harder when it hits.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, and it makes you wonder, is that
revelation going to be just for Kate

or is it going to be more widely known.

Right.

Cause like, from what we see in
these two episodes, his wife knows.

Yeah.

Um, but you get the sense
and well, Natasha knows,

Trey: Rody knows for sure.

Jude: Rowdiness man.

Okay.

So now that I think about this,
like that's, if they go down that

route where like everybody finds
out, now you're talking about like

Avengers team covering that up.

Trey: I w oh, I

Jude: wonder how big we have to assume.

Val knows.

Cause you have enough, the black
widow in tag and Val being Val

of what little we've seen of her.

I have almost

Trey: completely forgotten that that
was a hook that Val has sent your lane.

After Clint, because she's framing
it as though he killed Natasha.

I think you've just done uncovered
a pretty big catalyst for how

this season's going to play out.

Jude: Yeah.

You know, we're not in
the prediction section.

I'm just, you know, sifting

Trey: through.

Yeah.

That's really good.

I like that a lot.

Jude: Go ahead.

If you liked this episode,
Nick, Sandy, I'm sorry.

Trey: We got the first mic drop of
the season for anybody playing bingo.

We got the trucks drop last
week and now we got the Nick

Jude: Sandy drop.

Yeah.

Well,

Trey: you know, I want to stay in this
section about parasocial relationship.

The.

Imbalance between Clint and Kate we've.

We've talked a little bit about
Clint on the Kate side of thing.

I stumbled into this feeling of you have
the insincere, uh, novelty of running

into someone like Hawkeye, like we had in
the restaurant and in the bathroom, and

then the genuine interest and inspiration
that Kate has found from Hawkeye.

It's the same person and the
different ways that they have

expressed their admiration.

I love how with Kate, you know, she's
doing her best to be respectful and has

also trying to weasel her way into being
like an unsolicited pupil of like taking

notes, like, oh, so this is how you do it.

You're just constantly surveying
and looking for suspicious activity

or, you know, she was trying to
learn all she could from him.

Uh, the other example is like,
oh, are we going to get like

supplies from the Avengers?

And then they show up in like the
pharmacy store to get like supplies,

um, like first aid kit stuff.

So I love how it is a mix of sincerity and
the, I don't even want to say unwelcome.

I'm just going to use it again.

The unsolicited pupil.

Jude: My favorite of that when
you miss into that unsolicited

pupil is where and how Kate got
Barton's phone number and he's.

Only for emergencies and you know,
that ain't like, and we see it later.

It's not, it, it doesn't happen.

She calls I'll call you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's it's of course
that's going to happen.

You know, it's, it's the whole like happy
Hogan and Peter Parker thing again, it's

like, Hey, you know, I helped this lady
with her lost puppy or whatever it was.

I don't know.

It wasn't that, but this, and I
got a chiro and like, you know,

and, and I, and I saved this.

Guy's a bike.

Like it's totally gonna be.

Trey: Well, two things, one that
is the second time we have compared

Kate Bishop to Peter Parker.

And I'm very curious to see how that
comparison keeps on through the series.

And two, it makes me think of
another point that I wrote down

where we'll see this again in Ms.

Marvel, but I love that we were exploring
this era of the MCU, where you have a

generation of people who were inspired
by the Avengers and they are now of

this is going to sound weird to say, but
within a superhero context, I think this

fits, but they are now of a superhero
age where they can join in the fray.

Even though they're still on the young
side, they're getting these powers and

going into the fight and you can see it in
the way that like Kate has that admiration

of like, Hey, can you sign my bow?

Or the, uh, she's like, yeah, I kept
my mask on like a pro yeah, just little

things like that, where they have lived
in a vendor's world and you can feel it.

Oh yeah.

Jude: So the only relatable
moment I could have.

And I totally felt Martin
when he was like, are you 18?

She's like 22.

She's like same thing.

And I totally feel that in, in, like,
as I talk about here, I'm a teacher.

Right.

Um, and I have all seniors this
year and considering like when, when

they were born versus like when I
graduated and that I'm starting to

get to that age range where it's like,
well, this is 50 or 15 a me teaching.

So if freshmen are basically 14, 15, I'm
starting to hit that age range of like,

I've been teaching longer than you've
been alive, kind of, kind of age range.

And, and I was telling my seniors there.

I was just like, if your teachers
in some way, think of you as

children, try not to get insulted.

I was like, because I work with
people who are older than me.

That are, you know, that age
wise, you are a child still,

they look at you in their notes.

Like you're their grandkids age.

You know, when I look at how old my
oldest is in relation to you, two, you

guys, you're your kids still versus
like 15 years ago when I first started

that there were the age gap was closer.

And so I that's what I just loved that
interaction of just like, like you're a

kid and I have 22, it's the same thing.

Like I just, I just love that, you know,
and I just, I always find it interesting.

Cause there's this weird moral question.

Um, it's not weird, but it's,
it's what makes it weird is,

well, let me, let me backtrack.

It's it's not weird for the comic world.

Yeah.

But it's weird real life.

Okay.

And does like, should this happen?

And usually it's
surrounded, but that manner.

Was Batman being irresponsible
in having Robyn, right?

Like you're an adult and you have
this kid and you're bringing this kid

up to basically be a crime fighter.

Like you, you know, was
it, was he responsible?

Well, it's the same dynamic
with Tony and Peter, right?

Like I have this guy and he goes back
to Queens because the power set works

for his and what he needs to do.

But he's a high schooler, um, Kate Bishop,
because, you know, you come from a family

of wealth, you're still in college and
not in prison for destruction of property.

Like, you know, and it's it's so there
is this moral thing of like, like

taking them under their wing and, and
training them to be the next superhero.

That's messed up in the real world,

Trey: you know, I think it's always
one of those things we'll bump up

into where you just kind of had to
like, uh, it's a superhero world.

Cause we talked about it with Daredevil
and how Matt was using his superhero

abilities to, in the courtroom to
determine who is or isn't lying.

Jude: Yeah.

But at least with Clint, there's an
element of, like you said, like we

titled the section reluctant teamwork.

He's like, you stay in the safe
house, you do this, don't do that.

You know, this will be the last time
we talked to each other, like, and

she's like, you haven't taught me
anything yet, but just this, you know,

and you know, what about trickier?

I was, it was like chicken and it was,
we're not going to talk to him like we're

done, I'm going to go see my family.

We're not at this point.

We are not friends, you know?

Um, you're not my ward, like, and so
that, so that, that was really cool.

Part of the dynamic too.

Trey: So what you're saying is.

Clint is better than Batman.

Can we get you on the record with that?

Yes.

Okay.

So peek behind the curtains.

It is Thanksgiving today.

Well, we're recording and I got
to meet up with brother Daniel and

we totally talked about how you
angered him with the justice league.

Kate I'm.

This is I'm owning this family.

Daniel I'm prodding Jude
to get you mad on this.

Jude: Well, I mean, let's be honest,
like if, if it's a fight, like one V one

Batman and Hawkeye I'm kinda take Batman.

Oh, of course.

Right?

Like he hands down, love Hawkeye,
you know what they're doing?

What they've done with him in the MCU.

But in terms of like that area of.

Like I'm doing this, and this is
very much, I'm a shield agent.

This is my job.

And this is what I do that
really resonates with me

that take on the character.

And so this idea of like, you're this
22 year old kid who just, you don't

understand what you're asking for and
wanting to live this life, you know?

And, and you mentioned it
before with Wanda is very clear.

Like you're here by choice.

If you walk out that
door, This is what we do.

If you're not up for it, that's fine.

You don't have to be.

And so in that way, like,
yeah, it, it feels better

than, um, he handles it better.

Trey: So you just sparked
something I want to talk about

before I jump into my next point.

I don't know this for sure, but
so much of what we're dealing

with with Clint here is key is a
character that has lost hope before.

Like that is straight up the catalyst
for why he became Ronan, why he was so

quick to sacrifice himself, our attempt
to sacrifice himself an end game.

I wonder how much this keeping
Kate at bay is residual feelings.

We don't know there's no text evidence,
but I want to say it now, residual

feelings of potentially Wanda having
taking her under his wing, kind of

maybe subtly and the ramifications
of what have happened in Westview.

Like I wonder if that
weighs in, on Clint at all.

Jude: You know what, I, I honestly didn't
think you were going to take it that way.

I thought you were going to take.

The way of Natasha and Natasha's death.

The only

Trey: reason I went that way,

Jude: it's probably all I was going
to say is it's probably a mix of both.

Yeah.

Trey: Yup.

Which I want to be clear here.

Cause it there's nuances to what has
happened with Wanda and in west view.

But from what I imagine is
just the public's perception

of what happened in west view.

I wonder how that factors
into Clint psyche as well.

Yeah.

I

Jude: think they both have to, to some
degree, you know, I feel like they're

going to, as a show, they're probably
going to lean into black widow more is

as far as how that weighs on, on Clint.

But yeah, so that's but, but in
reality, Which is weird, like to

say that, cause I know we're talking
about inworld Clint and stuff.

They could go, they could have
gone either way and still get

that out of this character.

Whichever whichever one they want
to emphasize or find a way to

emphasize both, they could make this
look at the Clint Martin character.

With going either way.

Trey: So shifting gears into a similar
point in my preschooler thought that I

put on social media, I mentioned feeling
clunkiness within these two episodes,

but a conversation about branding was
something that really hit hard for me.

And to sum it up, there is a scene
where Clint and Kate are walking

and they see somebody who's like,
Hey, look, you're a superhero.

And they run past Clint and it's
costume people dressed up in costumes.

And Kate says that his problem is
branding to which he scoffs off and

talks about how like, oh yeah, you know,
surely not selling costumes or toys.

What, what am I selling?

And she says inspiration.

And the reason that I like this so
much is so often we talk about Clint

and Natasha as these characters
who are the stand in for hope and

the face of insurmountable odds.

And again, Clint is a
character who lost that.

He lost that feeling of hope.

Uh, he straight up says it
don't give me hope and end game.

And so even though he has been given this
second chance from Natasha too, as we

see, try and rekindle the relationship
with his family and spend time with

them, that's 16 layers of protection
that Kate is talking about is the

internal loss of, of hope within himself.

And so for Kate to come in, who
is somebody that straight up wears

their heart on the sleeve, and even
in things that they don't pull off

like the clock tower or later on in
this episode where they fall through

the roof in the interrogation scene,
they're being genuine and earnest.

Like they are almost in flappable
with, there are unflappable, I

should say, with the energy that
they go into every moment with.

And so to have them.

Butting heads like this.

It's it's I don't know.

It's it's a pull at wholesomeness
that I wasn't expecting.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, and you know what I like he's
brought that up because I'm, I'm working

on the assumption that Kate was not
blipped and Barton was in his family

was and so he had Clinton wasn't no,
no, no, no, no, no, you're right.

He wasn't, Barton was not, but his
family was, is what I meant to say.

Well, glad you caught that.

Um, and, and so in other words,
he had that experience of what

those five years was like.

And so it makes sense that at this
point in going from the way, the,

especially with, uh, Monica Rambo and
her experience of his, I think she's

the only character we've seen come back
and wrestle with those ramifications.

Um, no we did with Sam and Sam.

Peter Parker.

Yeah.

Not in the same

Trey: way I get what you mean.

I get what you mean.

Jude: Cause we saw Monica Rambo
come back and where it's like, one

minute she's gone and her mom's
there and next minute it's not.

And so her experience is
like no time had passed.

And so you get to see it in a very
different way than you do from Peter say.

Um, and Bucky, if that makes
sense, 100% makes sense.

And so go ahead.

Trey: I'm just wanting to say the blip is
something that happened to them and they

moved on Monica Rambo shaped them, if that

Jude: makes sense.

Right.

You know, and, and again, the
way we saw them to deal with it.

And so it makes sense that you start
this series with him out with the kids.

Because there is a, you need the time
to reconnect and you're only going to

do that with the quality time, you know,
and it seems like they're playing on this

struggle of him trying to reconnect with
the kids, if that makes sense, right?

Like, oh, I wish you were
here and makes it easier.

And, and, and those types of
things, but I'm sure that there

was a reconnect time as well that
you needed with, um, his wife.

So, so her experience, I'm assuming
Kate's not being blipped in him

having that experience, I think also
has a huge impact on where he's at

mentally and, and how that relationship
is, is developing and progress.

You know, cause like she, again, she
sees this parasocial relationship, she

sees this or like something really cool.

And I get to go jump off buildings
and do all this fun stuff that I've

been training for all my life, but she
hasn't really faced consequences yet

of living this life the way Clint has.

Yeah.

That's

Trey: a really good way to put it.

It's just, it's just such a tragic
setup of a character that he doesn't

view himself as inspirational.

And he is still providing it for other
people and cannot feel it internally.

And that's man, there's,
they're, they're doing a lot with

Clint so far in two episodes.

Jude: Yeah.

Like I really enjoyed these two
shows and are these two, these

two episodes and I'm super eight,
you know, it was disappointed.

I wanted to go into the third,
you know, and it was weird

because watching all the other.

Disney plus shows.

I was very much in the camp
of I'd like the slow burn,

rather than just a binge watch.

But like I got so into these two shows
that I was like, oh, where's the next one.

I was like, oh, it's next Wednesday.

So, oh.

And I'm probably going to have
to go back to waking up early

to watch it Wednesday mornings.

How come?

Um, my young.

Have soccer practice on Wednesdays.

So like it will be coming straight
home from work, picking her up and

go taking her to soccer practice.

And in the fall, because of
her broken arm, she missed

like a whole soccer season.

So like coming home and watching it on
a Wednesday was no, no big deal, you

know, with the recording on Thursday,
um, would, that's just going to push back

how long it takes me to watch an episode.

Oh, so, so yeah.

Anyways, well that's what coffees for.

I've had two cups before we
did this episode, but okay.

Trey: Me too.

I promised I'd never do it.

And I always do

Jude: that's all right.

You know what, after it's, after having
Thanksgiving dinner and like with

family and like, and I'm gonna just.

I don't know if this is
going to be an intake.

Maybe it shouldn't be now that I said the
word, Fred Daniel, or if it's an episode

you're editing with, like, I've seen
episode two, two and a half times now

and a half, because like I was watching
it after getting home from Thanksgiving,

visiting with family, wonderful
Thanksgiving eating and all that stuff.

And I just crashed on the couch.

Trey: So yeah.

I completely forgot.

You didn't have notes, which makes the,
so where do you want to start, dude?

So much funnier to me now in retrospect.

Jude: Yeah.

Like I supposed to be taking notes,
but I'm just relying on the fact

that I've seen it multiple times
and you know, we'll tell you what,

actually right now, my notes.

We are all stuff that like popped
into my head while we were recording

episode one, that was like, oh cool.

I'm going to take that out.

Trey: I'll tell you what, let's go
ahead and move into the next section.

And we'll start with me this time.

And this next section is LARPing.

So this is going to deal with all
the scenes of Clint clearly and the

LARPing section, but as a fun play
on the words when he was LARPing as

a firefighter, in an effort to get
the suit back from Kate's apartment.

So starting with me, I
just have a question.

How effectively could a person pull
off what he did at that, at that

apartment scene, where he just dawned
on the firefighter suit, like, do

they just not talk to each other?

How did nobody notice?

Jude: Um, my experience of a scene like

Trey: that breaking into an apartment
that's been on fire, go ahead is

Jude: there's no way.

Um, you know, and I, and I'm
mixing a couple of things, right?

Like, so there was once where not far
from my house, my stepbrother got in a car

accident and step-mom called me all upset.

It wasn't far.

So I took off right.

To go see, and, and these
cars were turning around.

Right.

And it kind of had like these cones.

And I went through the cones around the
cones and I pulled over and I got out of

the car and the police officer was like,
was like, Hey, you need to turn around.

I was like, yeah, my.

My brother was in that in before,
after I got down even saying that

was, the accident was like, my
brother was the driver, you know,

um, it was a head on collision.

And even before they're like, his
next thing was, you take another step,

I'm going to put you under arrest.

Whoa.

And so like, it was like, and I stopped.

I was like, look, that was my brother.

Right.

You know?

Um, and so, yeah, and then like
with my neighbor's house, um, last

March, uh, caught on fire and you
had multiple fire trucks and stuff.

And just seeing how the setup was and
the number of there wasn't like a police

line, but it was just like, there was
no way I could have gotten to the truth.

Put on a jacket and a hat and strolled
in with out somebody noticing.

So, um, so that's why I'm like, I
don't think so, but he's Hawkeye.

Trey: Yeah.

And I want to clarify this.

Isn't just like being nitpicky of
the episode and it made it worse.

It's just, it's so funny to me
how smoothly he pulled that.

Jude: Right.

Well, and

Trey: Hey, I'll interject this because
I praised it last episode with Kate.

So maybe it's a double standard
that I'm not praising it here.

We have Hawkeye.

Jude: Well, there's a weird, the one
weird thing that stood out to me about

this whole scene, which includes that
was the portrayal of the firefighters.

And the police, um, like they would
clearly had LARPing as something to

be made fun of, but they were also
very explicit of like most of these

people are firefighters and cops.

Right.

And so you have this weird, like most
of these people here are firefighters

and cops, but yet we're intentionally
playing the scene for laughs.

You have a firefighter who stole from,
uh, uh, a scene that they haven't yet

been able to determine investigative
wise, if this is arson or not.

So like you're stealing from a
potential crime scene at the point

that he was there, just cause there's
a suit that looked cool for LARPing.

And then in the end of the scene,
he's like, I don't get to be a hero.

Please let me win this.

And I'm like, that's a very different
narrative than say something we

would've got 10 years ago, 15
years ago off still coming off of

first responders are our heroes.

And so that was something, well, I
love the whole sequence, but that, you

know, and, and, and it, and it worked,
but it was like, man, that, that was

something that really stood out to me.

That was a very different narrative
of police officers and firefighters.

Trey: I changed my mind.

I am beginning to piggy back on that side.

I'm

Jude: Chrissy.

This is a little bit of like, well,
there's for, for Barton to pull

this off, like it's believable.

Cause you're an Avenger,
but there's also like.

And an aptitude on their part
that he was able to pull it up.

Trey: Well, the thing that I'm at odds
with is, and I just didn't put this

together and it's going to ruin a note.

I have later.

He's a huge thing that that person
stole part of the crime scene

because like I got it like, oh, okay.

He made the connection, the LARPing,
and then he found them online.

I was like, oh, how cool is it?

This is person that stumbled to the suit,
but no, that was a person on the job.

So yeah, that is a
little, that's a morally

objectionable.

Jude: Right.

And it's, and it's funny and
it gets us to that sequence.

Um, so there is an element of.

A feeling of writing that it's
like, so you didn't take this.

Yeah.

Like, well, it's like,
yeah, clunky is a good word.

Cause it feels like, Hey, this would
be a fun scene in a really cool scene.

The LARPing scene.

How do we get Clint there?

Okay.

The suit, how do we get the suit there?

Uh, you know what I mean?

And so in like the, like the
device of getting the SIM separated

from the suit and it just.

You're right.

Clunky, you know, um, I love, again,
I love the episode, but there were,

and I didn't think of it as clunky at
the time, but it was like, there is a

very, as you said, kind of now clunky,
now let's say that a little bit of

clunkiness to the, to the narrative.

Trey: It's writing to a moment
and not letting it happen.

Like they, they have this in mind.

How do we get there?

Let's get there rather than like, what
are the actions that would happen?

And so I think what this episode,
again, what this episode has

going forward is the sincerity
that it is wearing on its sleeve.

So I said it ruined my notes, but I'm
going to go ahead and jump into it too.

Let's let's just pretend like the
firefighter didn't steal an important

piece of the crime scene for this.

But, uh, you know, we talked about how
Kate mentioned there, like 16 layers

of armor to get to cleanse heart.

And I appreciate how it took literally
armor that Clint puts on to see the

heart finally come through, because
even though he's putting on that, like,

ah, I really don't want to do this.

He's having a little bit of
fun in that LARPing scene.

Like there are scenes where he's going
in for like strikes and he's being

dramatic and he's getting into it.

And then he kind of stops himself again.

But he was in that moment of play
that we saw something genuine come

out of him though, of just happiness.

And go

Jude: ahead.

Did you okay.

What I teach from that LARPing scene
was, or no, th th what I teased about

the LARPing scene from our episode one
for the pod was that I felt like this

scene was showing Clint's dad vibes.

Okay.

This whole willingness of like this,
like, okay, this is ridiculous.

I don't want to do this, but I'm going
to do it anyways for someone else.

And I'm going to pretend to like it.

Um, cause I mean, there's a
number of things that I'm sure

my parents did and played with
me that they were looking back.

It was like, they totally didn't
enjoy themselves in terms of the

actual thing we were playing.

But the idea that they were playing with
their kid was something they enjoyed,

you know, and parents experience that
they're like, it's not what I want

to chose to play, but whatever you
want to play, this you're my kid.

And it got that dad vibe feeling kind of
like willingness to play by the rules.

And for your sake, I'm
going to play by the rules.

You know, I'm doing this because I
need that suit back so I can save Kate.

Now that Kate's mission is
associated with the suit.

And so I just got these
whole dad vibes out of that.

Trey: I really love that
you brought that up.

Like that is a good catch
in that feeling with Clint.

Yeah.

It's

Jude: it's like when the parent brings
you, you know, from reference to eighties,

it's like how many parents really wanted
to go to the new kids at the block

concert with their kids or, and then
do in the late nineties, two thousands.

How many parents really wanted to
go to the Backstreet boys and St.

Concerts with their kids
and their kids loved it.

And they enjoy love being there with
their, with their kids and seeing

their kids and having a good time.

But that might not have
been their first choice of.

To go see,

Trey: I I'm immediately thinking of all
the Pokemon movies my dad took me to.

Jude: Yeah.

That's what I got out of that scene.

Right.

Trey: That's really good.

Yeah.

I do have more to say almost in the
opposite direction where I haven't fully

fleshed this out yet, but I'm trying
to find more examples to bolster this.

As we go through this series, it's giving
us a very civilian perspective of the MCU.

You know, last, last, last week,
last episode was so uncanny with

the musical, but the LARPing.

Is again, this is where the
point breaks down a little bit.

The LARPing feels even more special to me
because grills frame it as like, this is

the closest I get to being a superhero.

Let me have this.

And it is that moment that Clint like goes
along with it to like have that fantasy.

I guess I was trying to avoid that
word because of LARPing, but it's

the only thing that comes to mind.

And so, because Clint services
that desire to have that fantasy

of being a superhero, we see in
turn, that grills keeps his word.

Like they could have easily gone
down that cynical rabbit hole of

like, oh, he just wanted to win.

And then he takes off with
a suit, but he shows, I was

like, Hey man, here's the suit.

And given everything that Kate was
talking about with branding and about

how people don't want the cynical
cool keeps to himself guy anymore,

this episode is I think is starting to
make a statement about what it means

to be earnest in a cynical world.

Oh

Jude: yeah.

Yeah.

It's a great way to put it.

You know, cause he's,
he's again, all struck.

We talked about this, how to,
uh, how, how does the civilian

they'll just use it that way.

Um, interact with the superhero and Barton
common Clint, you know, got the fist bump.

I can call you Clint.

Yeah.

Dude, call me Clint.

You know, and, and so yeah,
it's, it's you're right.

I think that's a really
good way to put it.

Trey: Yeah.

And I, and grills even gets him
to admit, like you had fun high.

He's like, I'm glad I came.

So like it's, it's, it's special.

And maybe I've been watching a
lot of Ted lasso, which is, which

has redefined wholesome for me.

And I'm not even going to try and
put this on the same category of

that, but I am getting essence
of that wholesomeness in this.

Jude: Yeah.

And so I can't comment to Ted
lasso cause I haven't seen it.

Uh, it is something I'd like to see.

Um, it's has an issue with like
subscription services and how many do

you actually want to pay for and rich
reward of like, what am I paying for

and how much am I going to watch it?

Um, but there is, there is that
wholesomeness of, you know, I really

hope, and again, I haven't read the
article yet, um, and that critique, but

I started, I just off the headline, I'm
seeing that, um, as a dad, I really hope

they're able to pull this thread through
and that this is what really we're seeing

because there is an element of, one of
my Chris' personal criticisms of media

in shows, um, is not having, uh, or
misunderstanding maybe what a good male

role model is and how dads have been.

In particular.

Um, and, and honestly, the, one of
the best examples for me is, um, from

the CW show arrow, Joe West, you know,
you have strength, you have trust,

you have sacrifice, but he also, you
know, does things that can lose trust.

Um, and he owns up to it and tries
to, to regain it and make it right.

Um, you know, and so he's a
kind of a complete character

there, uh, in, in that way.

And so I really hope that that's the
thread they're going to pull through

and Parton cause it's, it's there and
we're seeing that, you know, and so

much of being a dad is, is in a weird
way, a choice, you know, and I mean,

you can say that'll be an, a mom too.

I get that, um,

Trey: being a parent.

Jude: Yeah.

Um, and again, it's, this gets a little.

You know, and I talked about it with Amity
last year, cultural, like Western culture

and just the culture vibe that we've had.

Um, and the influences of, um, Judaism
and Christianity, um, in Western culture

that has this whole God that intentionally
chooses, you know, um, and, and talking

about God, his father and, and seeing
that, that, that play out, you see that

in, in, um, in families and in particular
fathers and, you know, in dads, um, and

I mean, you see it with, um, gun, right.

And guardians, the galaxy too,
this whole distinction between

father and daddy and how much out.

Like, I might not have been your father,
but I'm your daddy what's Yondu right.

And it was very much
a, a choice, you know?

Um, and you get found
family things as well.

Like we, this isn't a biological
family, but this is the family

I've found and that's wonderful.

Like.

You know, but I, I, I really hope
to see them pull that through the

rest of the way with, uh, part.

Trey: Yeah.

Well, I got one more thing I want to
bring up here in this LARPing section and

I don't have too much to add other than
I just love how Laura and Clint work.

I think they're very open
and honest with each other.

And there is a clear implication,
like you mentioned earlier that she

understands what happened with Ronan and
it's something they talked about because

she calls it the problematic costume
I believe, or, or something like that.

And she seems fine with it.

It's not something that's a revelation.

It's not something that
she's holding against them.

It's just something that
they have worked through.

And so there are little mini interactions
with them within this episode that

are special and makes them feel
like such a great couple on screen.

Jude: Yeah, I'll be honest.

I don't have a good thing
to follow up on that.

Um, but I I'll say this
I 100% agree with you.

Um, cause the thought that popped
into my mind was yeah, and I

think LARPing would be fun.

I would love to try it.

I mean, it's, it's, it's
Dungeons and dragons, but not

sitting at a table and dice.

I mean, I'm sure that might be
dice and stuff involved, but it's

role-play but instead of like,
you know, let me roll my hip die.

I'm actually going to hit you.

Trey: Remind me never to play D and D

Jude: I'm just saying, oh man.

Trey: I would definitely be a Clint in
that, like, I would be grudgingly be in

there like, oh my God, this is whatever.

And then when I'm in there dragons, I
know I have this, every, this conversation

with my friend too, like he's always
held it against my head that I've,

I just don't have any interest in
going into the Renaissance festival.

And it's just like, it's so much fun.

Yeah.

I like fantasy stuff, but I like
it from the comfort of my screen.

I don't want to go
actually pretending so much

Jude: fun.

It's so much fun, so much fun.

And my students will sometimes be
like, you know, LARPing is like,

whatever, if I, if I could, if I told
you, Hey, we're going to go Lark.

And the two teams are going
to be the senior class and the

freshman class out on the football.

Yeah, totally would play.

And they're like, yeah, you're right.

You're like, yeah, you're right.

We would,

Trey: uh, I dunno, maybe, maybe I'm a
fuddy-duddy, you know, th this now means

we've got to give us our podcast friends
and all the friends of the podcast

together for a LARPing session someday.

Let's just start

Jude: with T and D I think, I
think we'll work our way to LARPing

just cause we are in different
areas of the country, Dungeons and

podcasts, Dungeons and podcasting.

Oh, well,

Trey: all right.

Getting back to the episode.

Uh, I think we can go ahead and
move into the next section, which

is entitled fencing for the truth.

This section is going to be everything
with Kate, as she is dealing with

Jack and her growing suspicion of him
being the person who has murdered or

Mon the third, as well as getting used
to him within her new family dynamic.

So Jude starting with you this time,
uh, where would you like to start?

Jude: Let me scroll through my notes.

Take your time.

Um, well, I, I have one note here
that, that I teased from the first

episode, but I don't know if this
is the right place to put it.

So let me, let me, let me break this.

And a two notes cause you brought
up, did Jack recognize Kate?

And if the answer's yes, that
recontextualizes this whole scene for me.

Cause I don't cause my initial watches,
I don't think he recognized her

and so that, you know what I mean?

Like, and so that changes, like his
approach and his interactions with

her, um, in the fencing, in the actual
light, I'm not trying to be like a

stepdad and let you win kind of thing.

Like I'm really being villainous toying
with, you know, uh, I like the use of

the fencing and able to show the two of
them already with the tension and combat,

but it's like, well, Hey, we know you're
going to, I mean, we know how narratives

work, they're going to fight again.

Right?

Like, like he bested her in this secret.

You know, even though he fencing
why she got points, he was letting

her, when she proved it with, I knew
he was going to Perry and stuff.

So he's clearly skilled.

So we're going to see this again, because
she now has to beat him and overcome this.

Um, if they don't do that, we're going
to kind of, we'll be disappointed.

Cause it won't be that payoff.

Um, I think I'm talking myself
into, he recognized her.

Okay.

So I just still, I'm not, I'm not sure
like why yet we're suspicious of Jack to

this degree, you know, because, and, and
again, I, but I resonate with Clint still

of like, you're at, you're still a kid.

You, you know what I mean?

And like, I know why from the stuff
we watched and the shady stuff, I was

like, oh, the inheritance, I don't
have the money, but I will get it.

And the stealing of the
sor like I get all that.

Strictly from Kate Bishop's point of
view, the motivation to follow suspicious

enough that I'm going to follow.

Like she followed her mom down and
then Jack happened to be there as well.

You know what I mean?

And so that's why it's like, I
don't, I don't feel like I've been

given sufficient information through
Bishop's point of view to like, to

have that level of suspicion of Jack.

Trey: Well, I can read my note here and I
want to preface it by saying I've cleaned

it up a bit, but I think the reason
why we are supposed to be suspicious

of Jack instead turn eating grin like
100%, like he's got such a menacing

grin that it gets under your skin.

For some reason it gets under my skin.

For sure.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, and the casting is great
because to me, he looks very similar

to her dad, but it's not her dad.

You know, and, and so I think that kind
of builds this heightened tension that

there, that they're trying to use, that
the, and it's a stereotype, um, you know,

some step parent relationships, step
kids don't work really well, some too.

Um, you know, so the idea that like the
step kids and step parents don't get

along, that's a stereotype and the show is
more than welcome to play in that space.

But I think the casting of having
someone that looks very similar to her

dad, but not her dad with the creepy
smile and stuff, I think heightened.

That

Trey: suspicion.

And that's a Testament to
Tony Dalton who plays Jack.

And I just want to say, like, he
is phenomenal and better call Saul.

And so I'm very curious in what
direction they will take him in.

And this he's been a bit awkward so far,
but I think it goes to the tension that is

going on between Kate, Jack, and Eleanor.

So there's something here
that is part of the mystery of

what we're seeing an unravel.

And I'm just going to put my money down.

And this is like, this is who I am as a
person, because I am stubborn in that.

If something feels like it's
supposed to be obvious, I'm going

to go in the other direction.

I'm going to put money Mo not actual
money, uh, figurative money down that Jack

is not the villain that we think he is.

Um, and my reasoning being is I
think there is genuineness when he, I

think it's genuine that he got goated
into the fencing, not necessarily.

Because, oh, here he is
trying to be a good stepdad.

I think it was this like, all
right, you a little tore up.

I'll I'll play into this.

And then like the, the trying to fit in
stepdad kicked in when he let her win.

But if he was trying to be low
key, I don't think he does that.

And so I think there is
some genuine aspects of him

trying in that fencing scene.

Well, it's

Jude: hard to hell right now of,
cause they're, they're playing

into the whole trying to hard
bit with this character, right?

Yeah.

Right.

I bought a book.

No, no, no.

It's okay.

And kind of explained her actions
for the book or even beforehand

it's, you know, it's okay.

I'll have that moment in time.

Time will heal all wounds
kind of kinda kind of thing.

And it's like that creates this
tension and suspicion of this person.

Cause they're trying too hard.

Um, but you can also play the trying
too hard and you're just like, Aw,

you're just a bumbling idiot, you know?

Cause you're trying too hard.

And so it, and it's right now, I'm reading
it from the suspicion standpoint and

you kind of want to read it that way.

Um, but again, that can
be one big misdirect.

They got their hooks in this dumping.

Well, they, well, they do cause
again, what you know about

narrative and storytelling, right?

That's starts to come into play
of like, again, my thought, uh,

God was show me eight episodes.

Cause I know there's four episodes left.

Yeah.

And if I take six episodes and pair them
up into pairs and I start thinking about

narrative storytelling and thinking
about the story circle or the hero's

journey, whichever is your preference, you
know, to have a well-developed villain,

they need to be introduced fairly.

Um, you know, and they don't have go
back to the Netflix Daredevil with

10 episodes or 13 episodes, right?

12, 12, okay.

12 episodes.

They have an episode to spend
on a whole flashback episode.

Two, his training was stick to his
relationship with his mini Matt

Murdock relationship with foggy a whole
flashback episode on just Wilson, Fisk.

You know what 12 episodes, that's three
right there, mid season, mid middle end

to season that, that you're getting these,
these, the backstory filled in that.

You're just, you don't
get with six episodes.

We have direction.

Yeah, go ahead.

Finish your thought.

No, I'm just saying, so you have to
have that efficiency and to have a good,

compelling villain, which, you know, the
in complicated villain, you have to have

time to develop that a little bit as well.

And that's the other thing of
like, oh, it has to be him.

It has

Trey: to be so slight correction.

I looked it up, there were 13 episodes.

I was wrong.

I only thought there was 12 because
I hate the stick episode that much.

Jude: Wow.

Trey: I thought I'd get a

Jude: laugh.

Wow.

Trey: The stick

Jude: was the original truck.

It was, it was like, and I get it.

Like to me, I look at it.

It was like, they did a really good job.

You weren't supposed to like, stick,
like, like they, they, they did what they

set out to do mission accomplished, but
yeah, I mean, cause you hated stick and.

I have different feelings
about that episode after our,

our pod reviews of those, I'll

Trey: never forgive that
beer can trick shot.

Ooh, well, we're, we're moving along here
and just to kind of set expectations here.

Normally we do have a little bit lengthier
episodes, but given that we've tackled two

episodes in one week, uh, we are moving
right along, which is going to take us

to our next important topic, which is
titled tracksuit mafia interrogation.

This section is essentially going to
deal with the remaining action sequence.

At the end.

Once the tracksuit mafia has
gotten a hold of Hawkeye.

Basically anything to do with
them within this episode is going

to be the focus of this section.

So starting with me, uh, there's this
show on HBO called Barry and a character

by the name of NoHo, Hank, who is very
similar to the tracksuit mafia in that

they are a gang, but they are very
comical in the way they get things done.

But the underlying point
is they get things done.

So I am enjoying this blend of
how they're both comedic of fact,

but still pretty intimidating.

If, if at least that's the pickup
that I'm getting from them.

I do remember the last episode
you've mentioned you wouldn't,

you wouldn't put them as capable
of pulling off a heist though.

So I am curious to see if
you have any rebuttals,

Jude: not in, cause it just felt like they
were used as like comic relief, right?

So like he's tied up and he gets
out, um, he has that line where it.

Uh, like, I feel like I'm talking to
furniture, I'd like to see your manager.

So like he's clearly not
under any kind of threat.

Like it's a catch and release
plan, as it said, he was like,

come on, let's just get this over.

Um, oh, my favorite guys.

I can, I can see through the bag.

Yeah.

So it has the head on the back.

And so it's like, so I feel like we
weren't clearly in those interactions,

like he caught one of their multiple
of cough pills and threw it back.

And you had that interaction with the
pizza shop owner at the, at the bottom.

Like they just, they, they
were intentionally, they were

intentionally portrayed as incumbent.

And so that's why I'm looking at that.

I'm like, there's just no way
they were doing the, the highest.

And you're probably right.

They probably were the same, because
again, it's a, it's an ease and

efficiency and you spent a lot of
time introducing the tracksuit mafia.

Um, but overall I'm just like, I just
don't feel confident enough to do that.

Yeah.

Trey: So I, I, it's funny that I get that
feeling because this was a note I pulled

up from earlier in my notes down to here.

And now that we're here in my notes,
I also wrote, I love how Clint is in

control of this situation the entire time.

And that it feels contradicting in
that I am feeling like, oh, these are

people who get done, but you were also
right in that they are displayed as

incompetent, but it's, I am of the belief.

They were pulling off the high.

So they got that done.

They are caught off guard when Hawkeye
is revealed to be in control, but they

do get him back under control with Kate
as they have them both tied down again.

So it is this push and pull between
them being comedy and serious.

The show Barry found a
way to make that work.

I guess the question is will Hawkeye
be able to make this work through

the series if this is where they
want to take them moving forward.

And the other thing I want to add to it
is if they're not going to be this blend

of comedy and competency, it is a pretty
good, my first mafia for Kate as her being

like the, the, the hero in training here,

Jude: that's this whole time, right?

Like following the video game model.

Yeah.

You level up, right?

Like, like you, you're going
to learn how to do this.

Against, you know, or
Dungeons and dragons, right?

You start out at a level one,
you work your way up to level

two and you fight harder.

Bad guys are, you know,
it's always interesting.

It's bad guys.

It's never bad girls.

Um, and that always brings the Brad girls
brings such a different connotation, um,

which is a whole world of CA you know,
can of worms that we're not going to

get into because it's so problematic.

But anyways, I really think I
need to get an ADHD medicine.

Um,

but yeah, right there is this leveling
up that we're seeing Kate Bishop go

through and the incompetent track
mafia, unfortunately, you know,

like, I mean, seriously, like you
really think Kate Bishop was Ronan.

Like you've had a run in with Ronan
already from what we understand.

And this Ronin ran from you
and tried to get away in the.

You think Ronan was really
going to do that, but you're

convinced Kate Bishop was Ronan.

Come on, like Kate
Bishop, just beat you up.

Didn't chop you down with a sword.

Like they, all of a sudden
Ronan just changes as emo.

No.

Trey: Well, I mean, Ronan
quote-unquote as now out there

beating up people with a scarf.

So,

Jude: so yeah, so it's their incompetent.

Trey: Well, you know what we need
to do, we need to set up a tally for

competency and comedy and see which
tally has more by the end of the series.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

And I can sometimes play in competence
for comedy, but I don't think that that's

an, and you had that here, but I don't
think that that's what they were doing.

I think that they needed a group or
a villain because what you have what

Ronan did, but you don't want it to be.

Again, skill level at such that
they're going to get bogged down

with this group because they
need to move on with the story.

Trey: So in essence, the, my first month.

As Fisher price.

So we got one more thing to tackle
before we move into stray thoughts.

And that is the buildup to the moment
where after Clint and Kate have been

apprehended, once more in tied down,
they have this ominous buildup to

somebody who wants to meet them.

And we go into a room that is all
red and a woman who is listening to

music in a very loud, uh, volume and
is communicating, I think would sign

language because the person that
comes and gets her only half does it.

And then she just kinda
like shoots him away.

So there feels like they're hinting
at something there, but this feels

like a pretty big character, uh, that
gets introduced here in this episode.

Jude: So, okay.

We don't know who this person is yet.

Right?

We

Trey: don't, but in the credits it
says their name and that is how I know

Jude: what.

Maya Maya.

Okay.

So that's, that's what I thought.

The Maya is Maya Lopez echo.

Yes.

And I know echo is getting us the spinoff.

Right.

And so that that's the other thing is
of like, this feels like a fill-in,

but with the announced spinoff of echo,
is it like a villain who's going to

no longer be villainous at the end?

Or are they pre expecting us to
like, love this anti villain?

I don't even like to use that term, maybe
more of this quasi I villain like low-key

and like, we know you're going to love
this character so much that you're gonna

want to see a villain with its own show.

Yeah.

Like, like, I I'm, I'm really
curious of, of which way they're

playing that because that's clearly
the vibe they got like, okay.

You know, oh, here's the big, bad.

Um, but again, it's.

It's not

Trey: clear.

Yeah.

And again, and this is all
external knowledge, given the

one name Maya from the credits.

So, you know, there's
a, there's still there.

It's something we're going
to delve into next episode.

I'm assuming, because you can't leave
it on that without revisiting her.

Um, it's just, it was an interesting
build-up to that character that

I felt like we needed to at
least talk about a little bit.

Oh

Jude: yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, they, they
left her sear for a reason.

Um, you know, we're, you know,
we're going to come back to this.

Uh, we have the big announcement of echo.

Like we knew echo was going
to show up in this series.

So, so, yeah.

So now I'm just curious of which
way they're going to take this.

Trey: Hmm.

Well, I think that's going to
wrap up this section for us.

Like I said, we are moving at a
bit of a fast pace just because two

weeks need two episodes in one week.

Uh, but let's go ahead and
move into our stray thoughts.

So, Jude, do you have any stray
thoughts for this episode?

Jude: Um, Shree thoughts.

I have one overarching stray thought and
it's, uh, we get to learn more about Kate.

You know, like this time she
successfully picks the lock.

Uh, she was resourceful and buzzing
and doing the pizza to get in.

Um, but there is this element of like,
you know, we have the scene that we

didn't talk about with the police
calling and she's like, You know, and

normally it's scripture written of
like, can I, I'm going to ask what is

this pertaining to officer or whatever.

And she's like, I don't
know how this works.

Can I ask what this pertaining to?

In other words, it is like the age
range of that in college, about to

be out of college ish 22 year old.

I think they're doing a really
good job of portraying that this,

the sense of confidence yet.

And some wisdom and the things that she
said to, to Barton about branding and

not wearing his heart on his sleeve.

So you get both like this confidence,
this wisdom, but also like, you

really don't know what's going on.

Cause you're still young,
um, you know, to bring guns.

Yeah.

Like, you know, and it's just like,
Uh, getting in and over your head.

Cause I mean, not on the scale, but
whatever I was in my early twenties once,

and I remember getting it over my head
of things and I remember that and then,

and those types of things, and I just
feel like they're portraying that very

well, because that is something like I
liked about the Spider-Man movies of like,

there's a lot of things they did that,
that I'm like, oh, that's what the high

schoolers would have done completely.

You know, whereas the others are like,
that's not how high schoolers act and that

actors 30, like, you know, and, and so I
do that is something that I feel like I'm.

They're getting, I don't wanna say.

Right, but they're, they're
definitely in the ballpark.

Trey: It's authentic.

Yes.

And that is a credit to Hailee
Steinfeld, which I don't think

we have talked about enough.

We've talked about Kate, but
I don't think we've talked

about how great she is in this

Jude: role.

Yeah.

Oh, this like stupid, wonderful.

It's going to be like, I can't wait to
see her interaction with shonky and yeah.

I want to see her interaction with yeah.

Like, and I, I want to see her interaction
with Yulaina because they relatively,

I would argue that have the same skill
set, but Elena is probably more skilled

and, and they both have their view of the
Avengers in a particular light where one's

kind of this hero worship and one's not,
you know, And well, not a hero worship

of, of what you did, but it's like, it's
a sibling kind of thing, especially a new

found respect to the unit black widow.

So yeah.

So seeing that interaction will
be, I can't wait for, yeah.

I

Trey: think you just got me really
excited about that potential interaction

that that would work really well.

And we may get it before, sooner than we

Jude: realize.

And unfortunately it's only going to
be four more episodes in a six month.

Trey: What's so funny to me is when you
wrote your preschooler thought of like,

I'm already dreading needing two more
episodes, it came across as like very

down on the episode, but hearing you get
so excited about it here in the episode,

it just makes it sound so much different.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, it's, it's just one of those things
where it's just like, for some reason,

right now they're married to the idea
of like, we're going to do six hours

and cut it up and it's like a movie.

And it was like, no, just embrace
the TV format because it works.

It's probably budget.

And you know that the whole forest
Gump running scene almost didn't

make the movie because of budget.

And they found a way to make
it work that whole sequence.

So like, okay.

I get budget, but me and let's put the
story first and this, these stories

need eight episodes at least to

Trey: quote your, your wisdom.

That's what I call job
security with more episodes.

So, uh, my straight thoughts,
uh, you mentioned it earlier.

I just want to say it again, catching
the Molotov cocktail is one thing, but

Clint breaking the glass first and then
catching it is a pro move and it may be

so happy to see him do that a second.

I think

that's right.

And he fought the Sonos if by

Jude: fighting Daniel and he made,
I was going to say by that comment

that he made before LARPing and he's
like, he's like, and I fought then us.

And then he had, and then he
like, lets the guy kill him.

Like I was fantastic.

Trey: So good.

Uh, this, this is maybe
prediction out of prediction.

I'll keep it straight thoughts.

I'm going to make a bet.

Now we get a reference to pizza.

Every episode, this season, we've
gotten it twice so far, and I feel

good about this because with pizza
dog, that field, which we haven't even

discussed, pizza dog at all, um, I'm
going to say this because this is Disney.

I feel really bad about
this because this is Disney.

Whenever they release the
character poster for pizza dog,

I thought the dog was winking.

I thought they were
doing their Disney thing.

Oh, here's a cute animal.

And that's not the case.

It is a one eyed dog.

And I feel so bad that I didn't
realize that on the character

Jude: poster.

I I'm going to forgive you on that
because that is a Disney thing to do.

Right.

I thought that's what they were doing.

And I haven't, I haven't
read the comics yet.

Um, and I truly mean yet.

I plan on going through.

But I do know.

I think I know that the
dog is important dynamic.

Okay.

And so like, this is like, I'm sure
friend, Daniel's like nodding his

head, you got to read this and TK
and the dog is so amazing, you know?

And so, and the comics,

Trey: the dog wore the gauntlet.

Jude: I know.

Right.

Like, so yeah.

So, so that's, so I think I'm
just not connecting to the dog

cause I haven't read the comics.

Um, and honestly I just
see a sandwich stealer.

Hey, Earl of sandwiches.

That's right.

Trey: All right.

Two quick, straight thoughts.

Uh, one hot guys allergic to cats.

That's fun to know just canonically uh,
to, instead of getting the opening credit

sequences, it looks like we're going
to be getting the, uh, credit sequences

with all the cool animations at the end.

Now really love the shot with all
the Christmas lights, where it is one

singular purple bulb, surrounded by red
bulbs that are cracking very, very cool.

Jude: Yes.

I love that.

They intentionally made.

Hey, Christmas holiday,

Trey: Phil.

I do too.

And I know I'm going to
catch flack for this.

I'm going to catch flack for this
for saying that all Christmas things

are the same, all Christmas movies.

It'll be fun to see where this
plays out by the end of it.

Jude: Oh yeah.

So.

Trey: Well, those were our stray
thoughts, but as we've been doing, uh,

since what if we really like hearing
what you thought of the episode?

So since we put our priest, one
of the thoughts out on social

media, we've got a few replies
with people's first takes as well.

So we're going to read through some
of those and comment on them now.

So starting with this one, uh, this
one comes in from kin on Twitter,

and it says, agree with Trey about
clunkiness, but definitely works best

when Kate and Clint are together.

I don't think it's clicked
yet for me, but I'll give it a

chance to develop and grow on me.

Still want a full version of Rogers,
the musical, and, uh, I'm right

there with the kids I I'm into, even
though I said, it's like disturbing,

I, I, listen, I watched squid game.

I can use some, a disturbing, so

Jude: I have not watched good
game, but I am definitely

hitting on the Rogers musical.

Let's see who else we have.

We have from just Mr.

Melt on Twitter.

These episodes.

Absolute delight.

I can't wait for the
next one to be released.

And I'm with you.

Like as soon as the second
episode was over, I'm like, oh

my gosh, I want to see the third.

Yeah.

Trey: Uh, this next one comes in
from Ben Mattie on Insta and it

says I loved how grounded it was.

Haley was amazing.

And Maya's entrance was so cool.

Um, yeah, like we said, it, it
took us too long to get to it.

Hailee Steinfeld is amazing.

Maya definitely has a very
noteworthy interest entrance as

Jude: well.

So real quick, I was going to say
Instagram, is that, am I like showing

age here saying Instagram over.

My favorite

Trey: thing about this it's
really Schrodinger's age.

I don't know if I'm showing my
age by shortening it to Insta.

I don't

Jude: know if it's okay.

Okay.

Um, you know, take your pick.

Alright.

So TK on Instagram, I love how
much it feels like a TV show.

And I mean that in the best possible way.

And I already feel like I understand
Clint's so much better as a character.

I completely agree with
her on the character.

Um, and the, the feel of the TV show.

It, it has that.

We talk about the AB cadence in a
negative light a lot of times, but

I think that's part of what makes
these shows work as a long form show.

Is that AB cadence, um, especially
did that with Daredevil.

Uh, the difference being is Netflix
putting everything out at once

versus having to watch it one week
at a time, which I enjoy because

it stretches the joy mint out.

I have the episode, episode conversations.

Uh, with people which adds to me, for
me, adds to the enjoyment of the show.

But again, it would that cadence it's
like, uh, you know, go back to just Mr.

Milk.

Yeah.

Give me the next one now.

So yeah, I do

Trey: want to add I'm I love that
TK is mentioning how they understand

clit so much better as a character.

I would love if by the end of this, that
is a complete 180, because if I'm not

mistaken and, and they've, they've openly
admitted it too on their show, how Clint

was never their favorite Avenger, if this
ends up being a complete 180 for them.

Cause I know like, uh, 15 minutes
of Marvel is also on that same,

like, oh, I don't like Hawkeye.

And I'm curious to see how they
are receiving him after this.

Well,

Jude: it has to be, it has to, that's

Trey: almost the, the directive
of the, uh, the series,

Jude: the director of the series,
but like with, with TK being such

a black widow, Natasha Romanov fan
to truly take her understanding of

that character, to the next level.

You got to understand Clint
cause they were best friends.

Trey: Hmm.

Yeah.

Uh, moving along, we got one more first
take, uh, this one comes in from none

other than friend Daniel on Insta.

And it says they adapted great
elements from the comics while offering

a fresh, funny, emotional take.

And it, again, we
mentioned it last episode.

I love how much fun Daniel
and TK have been hyping up.

Matt fraction's run of Hawkeye and
it is going to be fun seeing their

infectious excitement about this
as we move through the series.

Jude: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Trey: Yeah.

So like we said, this was our
listeners first takes, these are

people who reply to us on Instagram,
Twitter, or even in our discord.

So if you are keeping along with our
episodes and want to chime in with

what you thought of the episode, make
sure you're looking for our preschooler

thoughts and replying to those.

So.

We're going to do something we haven't
done since Loki, which is predictions.

And I'm so excited to bring this back.

Jude, do you have any
predictions for episode?

Jude: All right.

I've been teasing them from episode one.

Uh, these are more show predictions
and episode three predictions, but

I, well, one of them's more show
prediction that is sure to go wrong.

And the other one we might
find out in episode three.

So let's do this, the episode, we,
the prediction that I'm going to say.

Yes, you're right.

That Jack recognized Kate, because
he offered the butterscotch.

I think that was.

To like, I'm letting you know that
I know by offering the butterscotch.

Um, and she has some training left to do.

She didn't do a really good job of
hiding how uncomfortable that was,

uh, and getting out of that situation.

Um, but yeah, so like I definitely there,
so I think we're going to find that out.

Uh, the next episode prediction, we
kept wondering, you know, who got the

items for the auction who got the item
for the auction, you know, these should

be with, you know, the department of
the damage control, the power broker.

Yep.

That's what

Trey: I was going to say that until
you said I'll save the prediction

and so I'm glad you got to it.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

Because it's just, who has the
access, um, and who is already

doing those kinds of things.

It's the PowerBroker has to be

Trey: the, the only thing that
keeps me for being full-throated

about that what's the PowerBroker
doing with a skull of a dinosaur.

Jude: Well, I don't know if the
power broker provided the skull, but

the calm, the, cause the Avengers
compound stuff though, for sure.

I think came from the power broker.

I agree with that.

Cause, cause like the
auction house, right?

It's just an underground black
market auction house and you know,

where do I take my black marketed
stolen goods to be fenced off?

Right.

Well, I'm going to go to this
place because that's what they do.

Um, so it though the skull doesn't
have to come from the same.

Trey: Well, cool.

I think those are a very good predictions.

Yeah.

Okay.

I was trying to, I couldn't remember
if you said you had more than

Jude: that.

No, that's it.

That's it that's it.

I, I have my, you know,
my series one and my

Trey: all right, well, cool.

You know what?

I'm going to follow suit and I'm going to
start with my episode three prediction,

which I'll admit is a pretty tame one,
but we're still early on in the season.

So it's kind of hard to
predict what's coming next.

But I think next episode, we get the
Ronin revelation, whether it's through

Kate finding out or Clint's kids finding
out, which I think will also be a very

emotional moment since they don't know,
despite their mom and dad knowing.

And as for, yeah, as for the series
revelation series revelation for this

series prediction, I'm calling it.

The final action set piece will end
with whatever huge dramatic stakes are

happening, culminating to Clint with all
his talk, or Kate's talk about branding

and being out there and being sincere.

We'll end with Hawkeye stumbling into
Rogers, the musical, and taking the

place of ant man eat like accidentally.

Like it's just like whatever
action piece is happening.

He ends up on stage
during, at man's moment.

And that's his like victory lap
of like, it's me, it's Clint.

And I'm the hero

Jude: that I hope that happens.

Yeah.

That I have this

Trey: feeling and it it'll be brief.

It'll be like, he runs on stage like,
oh, I didn't know that was going.

And then runs off and continues with the

Jude: fight scenes.

Yeah.

Well, that's the thing though.

Like to the degree they went with.

I have a hard time believing that
that's the only time we we see.

Trey: So they're going
to get their mileage out

Jude: of it for sure as they should.

Trey: Well, there you have it.

We've got our predictions in the
books now, but we want to know.

What are your predictions for
episode three or the series itself?

And while you're at it, let us know what
you thought about these episodes as a,

well, you can always do that by reaching
out to us on social media at MC you

need to know on Twitter and Instagram,
it is a great place to interact with

whatever we thought about the episode,
as well as getting some extra content

that does not necessarily make it
into the final cut of this episode.

So if that sounds interesting to you
and you want to help support their

show, go ahead and give us a follow.

And, uh, yeah, we'll see you

Jude: there.

Yeah, of course.

It's always scroll down to the bottom,
click on the link and join our discord.

It's a wonderful community,
interested in all kinds of things.

In particular, the MCU, uh,
interact with us friend, Daniel

Leach sometimes hangs around.

Um, I seen Rob Logan in
there, all kinds of things.

Um, once you're there, make sure you go
to the role, assign, click on the emoji,

have access to all the spoiler channels.

And since you're listening to this
episode and enjoying what you hear,

be sure to share that joy with
others during this holiday season,

by sharing the episode with a friend.

Trey: Yeah.

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for
the use of our theme song, which is

his rendition of the Avengers theme.

You can find more of his work
on a SoundCloud, which is linked

in the show notes as well.

Well, that's going to do it.

Thank you so much for listening and Jude.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you tray.

We'll see you all next week.

This section is essentially going to
deal with the remaining action sequence.

At the end, once the tracksuit
mafia has gotten a hold of Hawkeye,

but basically anything to do with
them within this episode is going

to be the focus of this section.

So starting with me, uh, I just
got to say, there's this show

called Berry on ed, on SBO.

What was that?

Oh man.

All right, let me try over.

Jude: I believe there was just,

Trey: uh, how do you spell that?

The, what I said, how do you spell

Jude: a C H E.

Trey: That will never take off.

It's ridiculous.

Sort of called it like
Amazon prime or something.

Jude: It's the chess sound.

It was along a cha B.

So there's a B and two E's.

Oh, the O is the O is a Val is okay.

It's like, it's like, if you're
going to write it phonetically, I

think there's just a line over it
because you just say the letter.

Oh, okay.

Trey: You're done.

Yeah.

Jude: Like there's nothing more.

It's just, it's just,
that's how you spell it,

Trey: HBO.

All right.

Let me start over.

Okay.