Trey: Hello and welcome back to another
episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast

dedicated to the Marvel cinematic
universe and everything you need to know.

I'm Trey!

Jude: I'm Jude.

How are you doing Trey?

Trey: Well, Jude, I'm excited
because today we get to expand our

pod friends group with a first time
guest, whether she's spreading into

quotes on Insta infectious excitement
on our podcast or becoming the

guardian of spoilers on Twitter.

We're glad Ellie from oh,
shoot podcast is joining us.

Welcome Ellie.

Welcome Ellie.

Thank you

Ellie: so much for having me.

I'm so excited.

Yeah.

How's it going?

Is it going fantastic?

How's it going with both

Jude: vio?

You know what?

This is usually.

The highlight of my day on recording days.

I love recording.

It's it's awesome to do this.

I know

Trey: you scared me for a second
because you prefaced it by

saying usually I was like, oh,

Jude: you know what?

I got, you gotta leave
that little bit of room.

You never know what it's
going to happen on a Thursday.

I might win the lottery, you know,

Trey: excellent points.

Well, you know, we are very new
to your podcast alley, but Jude

and I have been enjoying it.

And we definitely wanted to reach
out to you and get to work together,

especially during this Hawkeye season.

But another thing we wanted to do is also
spotlight your podcast here at the top.

So I was wondering if you could walk us
through the origin of oh, shoot podcast

as well as the origin of the name itself.

Ellie: Yeah, totally.

Well, I honestly, I remember this
day perfectly where I was like, oh

my God, I should start a podcast.

I was in the car with my sister.

We were coming back from her dad's place.

And I was just like, thinking about
the fact that I love movies and that

I literally spend my days watching
interviews and just like videos with

like all of these actors I love.

And just like watching movies
that I love over and over again.

And then talking to my friends
about these movies and these

like random bits of knowledge.

And I know my friends were sick of it.

Trey: I know

Ellie: some of them were like, oh my God,
like, stop talking to us about this movie.

Like I get it.

You love it.

Okay.

So.

What if I started a podcast?

Oh, a way for me to talk about all
of these movies that I love and, you

know, put it out for other people who
also like the same movies to listen

and just kind of share that passion.

So I sent a Snapchat to a
bunch of my friends and I was

like, should I start a podcast?

And they all said, yes.

So I was like, okay, cool.

I got the validation.

I'm not crazy.

All right.

Let's and then literally I got back
home, pulled on my laptop and started

researching and gathering all this
information on how to start a podcast.

So that was like the true start of it.

It was just literally neat being
in the car and being like, oh my

God, Don't shut up about movies.

And then the problem did come with
the name though, because I am so

indecisive and I was like, you want
it to be something interesting and

something unique and, you know,
hopefully something that hasn't been

taken by another podcast or whatever.

And then I was working on making just
a big old list of podcasts names.

And I remember as a joke, I
was like, oh, it'd be so funny.

If it was something like, oh shoot.

And then when I was like talking
to my friends about it, cause

I was like, oh look, what'd you
guys think like, if you guys were

listening, what stands out to you?

And they were all like, oh
shoot, oh, shoot like that.

Like, I love that.

It's a play on words.

You know, you shoot a movie
it's like, kind of perfect.

So I was like, you know what?

Screw it.

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

Oh, shoot podcast.

Let's go.

And then he or she is, oh shit.

Great.

Sometimes, you know,
sometimes I have doubts.

I'm like, is it a cute name
that I'm like, no, I love it.

This is, this podcast is my baby.

I am very proud of it.

Jude: Yeah.

I agree.

Yeah.

It is a good name actually
is a really good name.

Trey: It's one of those names that
definitely stands out, but then

knowing the story on top of it just
makes it that much more special.

So, yeah, that's really cool.

And I love the way that
you talked about how.

You know, oh, I was annoying my friends
with a movie talk, let me just put it on

the internet because it's the embodiment
of something that I've kept with me since

I heard it at like an internet press
conference, which it was like with the

internet, the question isn't is there
an audience, but where's the audience.

So I feel like you've embodied
that a lot with the podcast.

So that's really, really cool.

Jude: Yeah.

I wish I had a story like that on tray.

I, all I have is Monday taking my
youngest daughter to soccer practice.

And true story.

This past Monday, she gets
really mad at me, all of a

sudden, and I wasn't sure why.

And it was just like, why
are you, are you upset?

And trying to, she was like, I
don't want to hurt your feelings.

And this was a big, bold moment for her.

Like, she, she came up clean and honest
and she was like, he talked too much.

And I was like, okay.

It's like, trust me.

It doesn't hurt my feelings.

It's okay.

Um, so yeah, so that's my version of it.

Oh

Trey: man.

That is lovely.

Ellie: I love that.

I love that.

Jude: You know what?

She's nine and comfortable enough
to tell me that in I'm good.

Trey: Well, you know, something else
that stood out to me about your podcast

is that even though you have started
with the MCU, I think you've made it

pretty clear that you're not going to
be strictly MCU movies on the podcast.

What, uh, what are your plans for
after you've covered the MCU movies?

Ellie: Um, well, I have a big old,
massive document full of movies.

I love and want to talk about, which
is it's actually really funny because

originally I wasn't going to start with
Marvel movies and I don't even remember

my thought process going into it.

I think it was because, you know,
with 2021, we were starting to get

Marvel productions again, and we were
getting phased for movies and TV shows.

And that got me excited.

And I was like, you know what, like,
why not kind of start off with the

movies I know and love so much.

Like it's a good place to kind
of lay down the framework and I

can talk about like the recent
stuff that's coming out as well.

And it's just hilarious because a
lot of people look at the podcast and

they're like, oh, it's a Marvel podcast.

And I'm like, Not really.

I'm like sort of, kind of a Marvel
podcast, but it's temporary, but no,

like I have such big list of movies
that I've loved throughout the years.

And like, I also really love Harry Potter.

Like that's been a franchise that has been
a massive, massive part of my life for so

many, literally ever since I was a kid.

So it was like, I need to give some love
to like, those like that part of my nerd,

you know, quote unquote, like nerdiness
and I love like Christopher Nolan films.

I'm like, got to give him some credit.

Like, it's just funny that I definitely do
seem like a marble podcast, but yeah, no.

Have a lot of plans for movies to talk
about that are kind of outside of Marvel.

And that's not to say I'm going to stop
talking about Marvel productions either.

Because again, like Marvel films have
been such a big part of my life too.

So it's like definitely
going to circle back.

But when the new year comes, it's
going to be less and less Marvel and

more of kind of just other films that
I've loved ever since I was a kid.

Jude: Yeah.

I'm excited to see you here
to hear your thoughts and the

tackle, the Harry Potter series.

Cause I don't have a lot of thoughts
because I never think about it

to the podcast I listened to.

I don't think I've come
across a Harry Potter.

One that I've listened to.

Ellie: There's a couple, the ones
that I've listened to kind of go

more into lore or kind of speak
on the books more than anything.

And which of course like getting,
you know, got, got to circle

back to the source material.

I know when I get to the movies, it's
definitely going to be talking about the

differences and cause one of my favorite
things about Harry Potter is isn't so much

the movies or the books, books itself.

It's what the fans have done
with the material and the way

fans have built upon the world.

Like, that's my favorite aspect of it.

And I'm like, definitely gonna have
that almost be at the core of those

episodes, like talking about what
fans have done with all like this

entire world that we've been given.

Jude: Yeah.

That's that sounds really

Trey: interesting.

Yeah.

It seems like the Harry Potter franchise.

And maybe I'm just kind of speaking
out of nowhere here, but it feels like

the Harry Potter franchise missed the
boat on podcasts being devoted to them.

So to see you circle back to it,
with that lens of the community

has been built around, it seems
like a really interesting idea and

I'm looking forward to it as well.

Ellie: Um, I know I'm, I'm like
saying as if I'm not the person

doing it, I'm like I'm excited
to connect back with that world.

It's always exciting.

Trey: Well, you know, speaking of
connecting to a world, uh, shifting

gears to the Marvel side of things,
what is your connection to the MCU?

What got you into Euro talking
about these films as much as you do?

Ellie: That's a good question.

Similar to Harry Potter.

I'd say the movies have just been a big
part of my life since I was a kid, you

know, like I remember watching iron man
when I was a kid watching Spider-Man

watch, like the Raimi movies were such
a big part of my life when I was a kid

too, you know, they were my favorite
movies when they were coming out.

Like, I still remember going to
the theater to see the second and

third one, cause I was too young
to see the first one in theaters.

You know, it was a little too spooky,

but like, I feel like when it comes to
Marvel, it's just been over the years.

I've just fallen in
love just more and more.

And I feel like it wasn't until maybe
around 20 17, 20 18, where, well, I don't

want to say like obsessed, but like.

Love for it was starting to
reach like that maximum level.

Like I B started becoming so excited
each year, you know, getting tickets

for opening weekend opening night,
like really working towards that.

And then I'd say over the course of,
you know, 2020, and like 20, 21, you

know, middle of a pandemic, I'm like, I
have nothing better to do with my life.

Really immerse myself in those world.

And I just, while watching the movies,
I would just start thinking really

deeply into the characters and their
experiences and what they started, like

going through, you know, looking at
where they started in the very beginning.

So for example, like Tony, Stark's
starting like 2008 in iron man,

how he was in that movie and how
we were introduced to him and

then comparing him to no end game.

Looking at his growth,
looking at how he's evolved.

And that just became
so interesting for me.

And like, that's what I usually like
thinking about when it comes to the Marvel

movies is looking at the characters,
looking at their relationships with each

other and looking at how they've changed
over the years and how some of them

are continuing to evolve and, you know,
find out new things about themselves

and the world that they're a part of.

So I feel like it's because of me
really immersing myself into the world

that made me fall in love with it even

Jude: more.

Yeah.

So if you are going to introduce the
MCU to someone who's never seen it.

What's what's the on-ramp what,
what movie do you give them first?

Ellie: Hm.

So, Ooh.

That's such a good question.

Like I almost.

Like want to say, go classic with like
the Avengers, because that's the first

time where we get our original six,
you know, that's a first, I feel like

it was that movie that got me like
really excited for what was to come

because, you know, at the end of that
movie, we start getting the clue that

Santos is going to be big villain.

Like it's that movie is the start of
what everything is going to have that

domino effect and what all the little
puzzle pieces are coming together for.

So I feel like I would want to start
with the Avengers, but then after that,

I'm like, I feel like I would just
want to show them my favorite one.

So I am obsessed.

Like my FA I say, my friends are sick
of me talking about like Marvel stuff.

This is.

They're most done with when
it comes to me, it's captain

America, the winter soldier.

I've seen that movie so many times
this year that my friend, cause I

used my friend's Disney plus account,
you know, like shout out to her,

but she wasn't serious about this.

Okay.

She w this is like a complete joke, even
though it did scare me for a hot second

earlier this year, I think I was watching
the movie, like the third day in a row.

It was like, she was like, if you keep
watching this movie, I'm gonna like,

revoke your access to this account.

She was like, you're done.

You're done.

I'm like, I feel like that's what I
would also have to do is like, you know,

show the ones that I love, because I'm
like, this is how I feel about movies.

If someone is showing me a movie that they
love, they get super excited about that's

going to get me excited about the movie.

I'd want to share that aspect
and that passion to be like,

here's one of my favorites.

I hope you like it.

And he'll like, here's how it's
going to fit in how here's it's,

you know, the benefit and the
pro of it within the universe.

Jude: That's fantastic.

That's fantastic.

Trey: And it makes a lot of sense too.

Cause like calling back to the
intro, you know, the infectious

excitement, I think is one of the
things that stood out of your podcast.

So to hear that at the core of what
you would show to people is totally

in line with what you do in your.

Thank you.

And of course, if you're listening
to this and you're not familiar with

already, you should definitely be
following Ellie on Twitter, Instagram

and Tik TOK at oh shoot podcast, as
well as downloading and subscribing oh,

shoot podcast on most podcast players.

But, uh, yeah, if you downloaded this
episode, you know, we're gonna be

talking about season one, episode,
three of Hawkeye and titled echoes.

And the way we're going to do this
is we're going to have some pre

spoiler thoughts, which is a chance
for us to talk about the episode

without getting into spoilers before
jumping in to the spoiler zone.

So before we get there, Ellie, do you have
any pre spoiler thoughts for this episode?

Ellie: I love this episode so much.

Aye.

Okay.

Obviously, you know, we got a few more
episodes to gout, but I feel like this

episode is going to be the standout.

One of what we're going to get.

I mean, Maybe we'll get some shocking
moments going into the rest of the season,

but this was such an amazing episode.

One of my absolute favorites of
all the shows that we've gotten.

So.

Jude: Yes, I actually, Trey,
you should go next because you

said, I think very similar.

Yeah, I'll go

Trey: ahead and cut in line here.

And, uh, we, we always share
our preschooler thoughts

on Twitter and Instagram.

So I'm just going to read this
verbatim and it says, well, executed

simplicity makes this episode a
strong contender for one of the better

episodes of the Disney plus era so far.

So Ellie, I wholeheartedly agree
about what you said of this

being such a great episode.

And it was like I had to stop myself
after watching it get from just

immediately proclaiming it the best.

Uh, that was definitely, that would
have been reactionary and recency

bias, but it is, it is hard to top
the way this episode made me feel.

Uh, and it makes me want to
go back and reevaluate all the

Disney plus episodes so far.

Ellie: I know I'm due
for a rewatch anyway.

Jude: Well, it's funny something you said.

Um, Ellie, something you said is
similar to what my first thought was.

It was like, we're halfway done.

And I want eight, like, like give me
two more, you know, and it was the

thing I came out of this episode is
like, uh, there's only three more.

Do we need four more or five more?

Um, I hope there's a season two also, when
I think what I found really interesting

is this episode, and I was telling
Trey this off pod earlier today that.

It's sometimes hard for me to separate.

So like, I try to hate my first watch.

I end up watching at least
twice before a record.

And my first watch is for me just to
watch it, you know, and try to do that.

And I catch myself already thinking
about the podcast, this episode.

I was able to, just to sink in outside of
like the dog, our dog making me like bark

and jump on normy and making me pause it,
like I just was able to sink in and just

enjoy it and not think about the podcast
or anything, which was really cool.

Cause you know, a lot of other episodes,
if I don't get sunk in to that, to that

degree, I'm start thinking about the
podcast, but this really sucked me in.

It was great.

Trey: I think that's a good summary
of our pre spoiler thoughts.

So, uh, like we said, you're
going to hear an audio cure and on

the other side, there'll be fair
game for all spoilers in the MCU.

So we'll see you on the other side.

Um,

And we're back.

So the way we're going to handle
this is we're going to break it

down into the most important topics.

And the first one we're going
to start with is Maya Lopez.

This one's going to focus on the beginning
origin scene of Maya as a younger child

and dealing with everything in regards
to the inability to hear and how that

pertains in the classroom, as well as some
of the later scenes where we see an older

Maya dealing with tracing down Ronan.

So Ellie, if we could start
with you, where would you like

to start within this section?

Ellie: Oh, man, I guess I'll start
with the fact that I, I cried a little,

Jude: um,

Ellie: I love when our Disney plus shows,
give us it looking emotional beginning,

you know, One of my other favorites was
with like Falcon in the winter soldier.

And we had that episode start with like
Bucky and Wakanda finally, like healing

from all the trauma that came with, you
know, being the winter soldier and having

like finally being able to let go of that.

I love those like really
emotional, deep opening.

So I love that they started this
episode with showing Maya as a child

and kind of showing how she is in
a classroom and then showing her

with her father, oh my goodness.

Like that entire scene with her talking
with her dad that got me so emotional

and then don't even get me started when
they started talking about dragons.

I was like, oh, only if you knew only
if you knew they are very much real.

And I just, I loved it.

I loved kind of.

Getting that look into her and her
younger years and getting that bit of

that history because of course it plays so
much into who she becomes later in life.

So I, I really enjoyed that kind
of introduction to our character.

Jude: Yeah, no, I, my first note
is I love the use of flashbacks.

Um, cause this is one of those things
that like sometimes flashbacks they're

used, but they're not really used.

Well, and you mentioned the Falcon,
the winter soldier, the use of

flashback, they used the flashback
here was just so done so well.

And I liked how I like how, what the
directors did here in terms of like

teaching us, like through Hawkeye and
that first episode at the musical, what

it was like to experience having this
hearing aid turned off to where it was

very quickly, easily picked up like,
oh, like, I like your use of sound here.

To, to make me or the audience feel
are trying to experience maybe,

uh, what Maya was experiencing.

I just, I just, it really
put me in the scene.

Trey: Yeah.

You talk about it being educational
in the show's part and how

it informs these characters.

The thing that I think this show
is excelling at is conveying

how characters feel through the
use of sound or lack thereof.

And like the thing that stood out to me
about Maya is you already learned that

she's such an observant character and how
she's able to use that to her advantage.

As far as learning goes, as you know,
the teacher was surprised that she

was able to fill out her workbook and.

They the fact that they did that scene
before we get to that emotional scene

with her father, where he tells her, like,
you can learn to jump between both worlds

by watching it is backing up the claim
of what she's taught and you can see how

that's just instilled in her character.

And it's from those first two scenes, like
it's so economical and wonderfully done.

And yeah, like they, they are
showing the type of character.

Maya is and will be in the future
when we get to the present.

And it's just all around.

Well done.

Jude: And Ellie, I love that
you brought up the, the shadow

puppets with the dragons.

It was heartbreaking when
she was asking about going to

the, the school for the deaf.

And he's basically saying you can't.

And then I see that interaction
with her at her, you know,

martial arts lesson that, that.

That the father daughter had.

And it makes sense, like, cause you
wonder sometimes like it's easy in shows.

We've mentioned Harry Potter,
you know, and earlier, and it's

easily to have that very binary.

You're obviously the bad,
you're obviously good.

Now we will fight.

Um, but, but to get that glimpse of
like, yeah, I could see someone getting

involved in the things he was involved in.

Cause you just want what's
best for your kid, you know?

Um, and, and it is heartbreaking,
you know, to see that backstory.

Um, and you feel for them.

Ellie: I, yeah, no, I definitely agree.

And what I really appreciate about,
about it as well is that it creates

those layers and it just allows them to
be much more of a well rounded character

or, you know, of course there's like
a bit of that setup for her to be.

Like somewhat of a villain in this case.

And Marvel unfortunately
has a long history of not

having well-rounded villains.

They usually fall very, very flat.

And it's only in recent years where
they've actually been fortunate

enough to get that development and
where you get that understanding

of that history of a character.

So I really love that.

They're giving you a lot more
history into who she is and

kind of where she came from.

Trey: Yeah.

I liked that you brought that up
about Marvel's track record when

it comes to villains because it
has gotten better in recent years.

And the thing I think that has
gotten better is the nuance at

which they give these villains.

So again, going back to what you also
said, Jude, about how you can fall

into the trap of this person bad.

This person's good.

The thing that I love so
much about how they've tied.

Ronan to the origin of Maya just makes
this such a narratively rich drama to

stem from because on paper, Clint is our
protagonist and Maya is our antagonist.

But knowing what Clint has done
as Ronan starts to question, okay,

well, who can we morally root for?

Because Clint's also done some pretty
terrible things as evidence by what

has happened to Maya and her father.

So there's nuances into this.

Isn't just, you know, black
and white, there are a lot of

wounds here that have to heal.

And again, what a great way
to open up this episode.

Oh

Jude: yeah.

Imagine this show completely
from Maya's perspective.

Right?

And so we get that scene where.

Ronan is doing is Ronan thing.

Uh, or at that point, from
her perspective, Rodin's

doing the road in thing.

We don't know who it is and, but we
follow her whole life through training

and she tracks down Barton and then we
find out it's Barton, like she's a clearly

a protagonist that you would root for.

Right?

Like that's a, that's
a show we would watch.

Um, and, and so that's, yeah, it's, it's
really going to be interesting to see.

And my recognized Barton,
like, what are you doing here?

You're a Clinton Barton.

Ellie: Yeah.

I mean, that's the thing with Clinton.

Like everyone knows who he is.

Like, he he's an Avenger.

Everyone now look across the world,
like sees him and sees that hero.

You know, they'll remember calling back
to 2012 when the Avengers saved New York,

there's going to be all of these like
little moments that people think of.

And they know him and it's like, I'm in
the first episode when, um, he, and he was

with his family eating in the restaurant
and he didn't have to pay for the meal

and people know exactly who he is.

And they view him in such a positive light
because they just feel him as a hero.

They don't know like his dark, that
dark spot in his life during the

Blyth, when he was being grown in.

Jude: You know what I know, we're, we're
still kind of talking about my hair,

but you mentioned that dark spot in
the hero isn't that they know him for.

Marvel has also put him in that
weird space where he was going

after mafia that survived the blip.

I do wonder if the show's going to,
again with only three episodes left,

it'd be hard to, to do they tread
in that space where it's like, oh,

we find out it's Clint and Avenger.

But because you're an Avenger, we'll
forgive you because you were going

after quote unquote bad people.

I don't, I don't think I have time to
flesh that out, but, but what, what

you were just mentioning about how
recognizable he is as a hero would society

public, you know, in this world, be
that forgiving because he's an Avenger.

It's

Ellie: an interesting question because
it's difficult to consider how people

within the MCU, the average civilian is
going to feel, because I mean, it's pretty

obvious how a lot of fans feel about it.

And a lot of fans aren't forgiving of
his actions because when you look at

the people he's being, um, you know,
going after, during the blip, they were

primarily people of color and that's old.

All that we saw on scene was the people
he was going after were people of color.

So as fans, a lot, many of them.

They have a very hard time for giving
that because it's like, kind of looking

at his mindset and why he thought that
was a good idea or what, like we get it.

Okay.

You, of course, it's absolutely horrible.

You lost your family.

Of course.

Like that's absolutely devastating.

Especially during this, there's a
lot of confusion that plays into it.

But when you look at it within the
average civilian within the MCU, I

almost feel like they would be a little
more forgiving because of what they've

been through themselves or simply just
because they're like, well, he's a hero.

Yeah.

He must have thought it
was the right thing to do.

Cause you know, why
would he do anything bad?

He's an Avenger, even though there are
some people within the MCU who have a

bit of animosity towards our heroes,
as we saw in like age of Ultron,

Jude: Or on the urinal
where it's just staying up.

She was right.

There's a lot of different,

Trey: well, you know, speaking of
differing perspectives, uh, eventually

we get a little further into the, to
the episode where we see there's a

disagreement between Maya and Kasi and
specifically about Maya's continued

pursuit in, uh, searching for Ronan and
how Kasi doesn't think it's a great idea.

Uh, what did you make of this
infighting between the Meli?

I mean, I

Ellie: thought it was
very interesting and.

Because I've been wondering about the
relationship between Kasi and Maya

and cause I round with Washington,
with my friend and we were like,

it kind of seems like there's like
a bit of a relationship there.

Like, it seems like there's a bit
of a deeper, you know, they're not

just like coworkers or something,
you know, there's, there's a bond.

Trey: I think Katie even poisons it out.

It's like, did anybody else pick
up the tension between the hot I

Ellie: picked it up too.

And it's interesting because I hope
that moving forward in the rest of the

episodes, we get a little bit of a deeper
look into what their relationship is

like and, you know, getting an idea of
what they, what they mean to each other.

Cause I feel like that would actually
add a lot of depth and you know,

calling back to that disagreement
in episode three, I feel like.

Allow me as a viewer to kind of
understand it a bit more, but I thought

it was very interesting because it's
always, whenever in our movies, we

get that disagreement between two
people who are on the same side.

It's always interesting because you
never know where that disagreement

is going to go, because that could
be a hard division that could push

them to completely separate and have
someone like switch sides, for example.

So you never know where it's going to go.

Jude: Um, well, what I also find
interesting, and this is outside of the

show, I guess we know Maya gets a spinoff.

That's true.

Very excited about it.

Yeah.

And so that might be part of the
catalyst of how you get there with,

with the two of them, you know,
like, cause I had that note, it

was like CA causes there for Maya.

Otherwise I don't think he
would be there, you know?

And so I'm curious, uh, what
is that, what is that draw?

Um, And for her, it seems, you know,
right now, you know, it's heartbreaking

the what's, her backstory and all of
that, but she's clearly also there.

They're really trying to show her as
someone who's driven by that one moment

and looking for vengeance, um, under,
I mean, understandably, like, I, I

think I would probably feel the same
way if I, you know, had witnessed, uh,

parents and died in my arms in that way.

Right.

Um, you know, with the hooded ninja, you
know, um, like I, I get it in that sense.

Um, so yeah, so like, like you
have to take this character.

From there to something we'd
want to watch as a spinoff.

And that might be the

catalyst

Trey: and, and, you know, I brought this
up earlier, but I'll bring it again.

I, I like all that.

They're doing nuance wise with Maya and
to have this infighting between Maya

and Kasi, it shows Maya's and FA is
fallible because she is driven by revenge.

Understandably so, but we've seen
how corrosive revenge can be.

And on the flip side, it humanizes
Kasi as more than just an antagonist,

because he does have some sense
of like, Hey, this isn't right.

We shouldn't be doing this as evidence
of him stopping Maya from choking Kate.

So I love a good infighting
between villains.

And I'm happy that we're
getting that established here

with Maya in this episode.

Jude: Well, yeah, I mean, with, with
Maya and Hawkeye or Barton, I guess right

there in that, in that exchange, you see.

Well, she points out Clint's downfall.

You rely on the technology, right?

And he makes a little joke about
this, but she's talking about her

ability to like what she learned about
being this awareness of surroundings.

And, and when you kind of see that when
he loses his hearing aid and you get

these funny moments and stuff, but her
weakness as well is not being able to

hear, you know, in that, will you see
this scene where she has her interpreter?

We know she can read lips very well,
but like she just loses focus and

grabs Kate by the neck, right by the
throat, and then just kind of prompts.

Cause he's like, what are we doing later?

And, and, and not, and for me, it's
showing like this isolation from that

is also put her almost in like this echo
chamber of her own mind, you know, which,

which is like, once you get this emotion
in this thought, You, you're not having

something to help you snap out of it.

Cause you can be so hyper-focused cause
you've, you've had to be your whole life

and that's what you've been focused on.

Um, and so I feel like that, that,
it's interesting to see how, how

much they're there, that there's
a strength and weakness in both

of them through the same thing,

Trey: man, I really love
the way you framed that.

That was a very insightful for what
they're doing with both these characters.

Ellie: What was very good.

Very good.

Jude: And I do.

I'm going to bed.

Ellie: I'm done here.

Trey: Oh man.

I do have something I want to
play off, but we need to establish

something before we get there.

So Ellie, I saw you
hyping this up on Twitter.

So I'm going to throw to you who
was that person at the karate.

Well, since

Ellie: Fez, AKA king

Trey: pen, are we all in agreement here?

Jude: We, I hope so.

Well, I dunno, you sent me a text earlier
training about like, oh, I'm not sure.

Oh my gosh.

I'm so excited.

Like a friend of mine, Jonathan,
who listens to the pod.

Sometimes he did one of the sweetest
things I think anybody could do.

Like, he's one of those, I don't
watch trailers, but he watched

the first Spider-Man trailer just
to listen to our react thing.

And I was like, dude, that was,
that was really cool of you.

That's truly

Trey: an honor.

Jude: Yeah.

But like knowing like his view on
spoilers, he texted me last night.

He goes, is that who I think
it is just like, you really

want me to answer that question

Ellie: and that's like the exact
question you need to, I guess

it's like, are you sure you

Jude: want to know?

Trey: Which do you really want
to go down this rabbit hole?

Yeah.

You know, I, I gave due to hard time,
but yes, I, I wholeheartedly agree that

it is Wilson Fisk as well specifically.

I mean, all we have to go on is
a chuckle and I hand, but if that

ain't the hand and chuckle Vincent
D'Onofrio, I don't know what

Ellie: I was like.

Cause my friend and I were, we
did a watch party, you know,

we stayed up until it released.

And I was like, okay, first
of all, looked at black suit.

Look at him, look at how
large of a man that is.

I'm like, and I'm like, here's the.

If it was just some random person,
like if it was some random man named

Richard or something that happened to
be her uncle or uncle figure who was

irrelevant, why not show his face?

Yeah.

It's hidden for a reason.

His true identity is
being hidden for a reason.

So I'm like if he's anyone else, but
Wilson Fisk, he has to be some other

significant character within mark.

But you can't can, like, as of right
now, you cannot convince other otherwise.

Jude: Well, I'll tell you that the
texts that Trey sent was, I don't

know, we were all convinced it was Reed
Richards off the text, Monica Rambo.

Trey: So that was, I was
just pulling dude's leg.

I didn't think it was going to make
the podcast, but if I had any, any

slight doubt, it would be Disney
plus is not afraid to swerve.

So, uh,

Ellie: no.

Okay.

We know that with our little fake Pietro

Trey: little fake Pietro.

I like that.

That's fantastic.

Oh man.

Well, I, again, I alluded to saying
that I wanted to bring something

up, but we needed to set up this
Wilson Fisk potential character.

First on top of that, Ellie,
are you familiar with Daredevil?

Because that will shape how I phrase this.

It's

Ellie: funny.

I actually started watching it this year.

Oh, fantastic.

Trey: Yeah.

So I've only seen season one
and four episodes of season two.

And I thinking I need to go
ahead and finish that series

by the time this year is over.

Jude: You have until next Wednesday tray
from, from the handshake, but, okay,

Trey: well, I'll say this.

Went from what we did on our
podcast covering Daredevil.

The thing that we learned about Wilson
Fisk is how emotionally driven he is.

Now, if Maya is supposed to be
somebody who is heavily influenced

from Wilson Fisk, it makes all the
sense in the world that she is quick

to that anger and that scene with
Kate, where she starts to grappler.

Because if Wilson, Fisk is a
influential figure, then yeah, it's,

it, it, it makes all the sense in
the world that that would happen.

So I'm curious to track if this is Wilson
Fisk, if that's where maybe she's picked

up on some of that on top of what you were
saying, Jude, about the Kuyper fixation

in order to carry along and in Excel.

Jude: Yeah.

I'm so excited.

Okay.

I just, I just, okay.

And that's, and that's the other thing is
like, I want to be very careful thinking

back to my experience at Wanda vision.

And, and be guarded about it being Fisk.

Cause we saw the hand in the water fish
doesn't show up until the last episode,

you know, or maybe even an intact.

And, and I think one of my issues with
Wanda vision while watching it was, I

got caught, I got so caught up in the
speculation about who is this special

character and ended up just being white
vision, you know, or, or sword vision.

And

you know, you have all of that, but it's
just, it's like, I, I kind of lost sight

of like, oh, this is Wanda's story.

Let me and enjoy Wanda story.

So that's the only thing that I'm,
that I'm like with my fingernails,

the ledge I'm clinging on to, to make
sure I don't like lose sight of it.

Now this is, this is Hawkeye.

Ellie: I feel like if you know,
we get that intro deduction or

re-introduction of Wilson fair.

I feel like it's, he's not going to
play a massive role in this show,

but more so with echo, when we get
that show on Disney, plus, I feel

like that's where he would be much
more of a prominent character, but

I feel like if he, you know, come on
Marvel, like give them, like, give

this to us, give us this one thing.

If we got kingpin and, you know, episode
four, episode five, whatever it may

be, I feel like it's going to be just
enough to be like, this character

is now Canon within the MCU here.

Here's how he fits in Maya's life and in
this story, but it's not going to have

that much of an impact on Clinton, Kate,
it's going to just, yeah, we're going to

get a nice little taste of it, but it's
going to be like for Maya's TV show.

Jude: Yeah.

Kinda like, kinda like we got
how we got king and low-key

Ellie: exactly.

We got a nice little taste
like here, here he is.

Here he is.

Yep.

Just wait, just wait until, you know,
like quantum mania, season two of

low key, like it's, he's going to
be much more of a further developed

character in those productions.

Jude: You're getting me excited
for all these other things.

Okay.

Ellie: This is what I do in my day to day.

I get yourself excited and then I get
other people excited about these movies.

Trey: I, I think that's a pretty
good wrap on the Maya section.

So we're going to go ahead and move
into the next, most important topic,

which is entitled track and field.

So this is going to be the section that
deals with the tracksuit mafia as they

have Clint and Kate hostage and takes
us all the way through Clinton, Kate

escaping through that highway chasing.

So Jude, if we could start
with you, where would you like

to start within this section?

Jude: Okay.

I'm going to start in a really weird
spot, cause this is what it came out.

I feel so bad for imagine dragons just.

And I've talked about
this on, on pod and train.

And I talk about this all the time
off pod of like, of like, we want to

start with a positive and, but it's
okay to be critique things because

it's, it's, it's from a place of love
and from of these sayings and it's

okay if we don't enjoy everything.

But I remember reading the story about
the lead singer of Madden dragons, talking

about his mental health because of the
turn of like society and popular culture.

Like, oh, it wasn't hip or cool.

That's sort of my age hip.

Cool to like imagine, imagine dragons.

And so to make that part of a joke there.

Like that was an element of like,
cause, cause we're supposed to see the

tracksuit guys, I think as incompetent.

Cause he even get like Maya's running
them, but she has her own agenda.

Even get the feeling like I'm just
gonna go out and say it Fisk who's

her boss is, has their own agenda
and they just don't realize it.

And so like even for it
to have a character and be

like, I like imagine dragons.

So it's like, we're not supposed
to like that character anyway.

We're supposed to think
they're idiots, you know?

So yeah.

I, it's a weird place to
start, but I felt so bad for,

Trey: yeah.

I'm going to read my note and preface it.

We just talked about
this in the meta episode.

Disney.

How are you not listening to
being nice to match Kevin?

Ellie: Oh.

It's so funny.

I'm like adding this to the
list of re list of topics.

I would like to discuss with Mr.

Kevin, because I always joke.

I'm like, I'm going to go like knock on
this man's door and have a discussion

of how he's traumatized me over the
years, add this to the list and be

like, Hey buddy, we got to have a chat.

Okay.

You got to have a friendly chat.

And also I will be taking a couple of your

Trey: hats.

Jude: He has plenty of hats.

He can, he can

Ellie: spare one.

We can spare at least two.

Okay.

Now I'm sure I've talked about
this with my friends and like, you

know how people have like shoo.

He hasn't where they like pace really
expensive shoes, sneakers, whatever they

meet, maybe I'm like, I wa I'm willing
to bet some money that this man has a hot

wall where he has all of the like hats
he's worn to the premiers over the years,

Trey: I call mine.

Ellie: You know what that is also another
very appropriate, perfect use of a wall,

Trey: but no, you know, I was going
to say last week I talked so much

about how, the way cause Kate and
Clint are teaching each other, right?

Like Clinton is obviously hard shell.

He's not opening up.

Kate is showing them how to open
up through the act of sincerity.

So I loved how Kate was sincerely
listening to the tracksuit mafia.

Mafia's problems about wanting to go
to the imagine dragons concert and his

girlfriend not wanting to take him.

I love it.

It is an example of that sincerity, but
this is what I wanted to quote Jude.

This is straight from a notes, shame.

It had to come at the
expense of imagine dragons.

And I think we are probably the only
podcast that has this hangup, but

it's so funny that we have it at all.

Jude: I know, right?

Like we're the podcast.

We're going to change our name, the
podcast that feels bad for imagine

dragons and like, sorry, like.

Ellie: Iron man.

Three is so underrated.

Jude: Oh yeah.

Ellie: Literally made a tick.

Talk about this, like two months ago,
responding to another Cirque talk video.

It is so underrated.

It deserves so much more
appreciation that it gets Mike.

My theory is that it, Ironman
three only gets the hate because

of people who don't like Tony's.

That's my

Jude: theory, Nick, Sandy that's in
case you don't know Nick, Sandy did

our theme song and I just use him as
a reference when, instead of saying

Mike drop, I said, Nick, Sandy.

So that's why he keeps saying mixing.

Trey: I love that.

As if the immediate conference, when
we started this wasn't enough proof

of how this is a good group of people.

You're like, we did a whole episode
on iron man, three, where we ended,

we're either going to convert people or
we're going to push people away because

we just talked for like two hours
about how amazing Ironman three is.

It's in my top five.

Jude: Yeah.

Ellie: Wow.

You know what?

It's there?

It's not in my top five,
but it's very, I like

Jude: to hear that she
started backing off.

She was like, okay.

Okay.

Let's, let's, let's tap the brakes

Ellie: personally.

I respect the fact that it's in your
top five, but I'm like, it is such

a great movie for Tony stark and it
adds so many layers to his character

and just the way that he's developed.

Oh God, it's so good.

I think it might be one of
my, my favorite iron man

Jude: movie.

Yeah.

And Trey's going to get a message
from friend Daniel through

just like top five, really?

Trey.

Trey: Hey, I've put it out there.

I I'm sending that.

One's consistent.

Jude: I know it is.

Ellie: I'm curious what your number one is

Trey: it flips back and forth
between winter soldier and end game.

Just because the I'm a
huge captain America fan.

So winter soldier, obviously.

Yeah, but I definitely see that.

Yeah.

And then shrunk sheet number three.

Ellie: What an amazing movie.

Amazing.

That's number one for me right

Trey: now.

Well, you know, circling back to this
episode, there's a moment that stood

out to me where Maya is asking about
the specifics of Ronan and Clint tells

her that black widow killed Ronan.

So what did you think about that, Ellie?

Ellie: I thought it was very interesting
and I would say like she did kind of

killed Ronan in a sense because she
went searching for Clint, found him

and essentially, you know, was bringing
him back home, allowing him to kind of

refocus and realize there's a chance we
can get everyone back and kind of showing

him that, you know, the life that he's
going down right now is not the path

to go on because she is no stranger to.

Going down really going
into like the assassin path.

She's had that dark spot on her life
with BMC before she is probably one

of the only individuals who can really
understand kind of Clint and his mind

and where he is an end game before he
comes back to the Avengers compound.

So I think I get it.

I think she did kill him because
after that point Ronan was gone,

he never went back to that life.

He was able to refocus.

So I think that statement was appropriate.

Trey: Yeah.

It's one of those scenarios.

You didn't lie, but you
didn't tell the truth.

And so I I'm G I like physically dead just
spiritually, but, uh, no, I enjoyed it.

It was a great heads up play on Clint.

Cause I mean, he even admits it to
Kate where he was like, I almost had

them disassociated the suit from you.

And then you popped in from the skylight.

So it's in line with him trying to
throw the tracksuit mafia off Kate

and I like the clever use of him
telling what happened to Ronan.

And, uh, yeah, I, I thought that
was an interesting scene and, and

kudos on the creative team to both
make it a heads up play and a pull

at heartstrings at the same time.

Jude: I don't, I don't think
I agree with you, right.

Like I like, I, my, my note
is black widow did kill Roden.

Like I don't think of it as.

Like, like, like the idea
that there's a separation.

Um, okay.

Like, and I see what you're saying.

I agree with Ellie in the sense, what
you're saying of she brought Clint

back, uh, for, from how lost he was.

And I, I think he really did feel
that like that yes, Ronan is dead.

I'm able to leave that, you know?

Um, yeah.

Cause I mean, just as much as like trying
to protect Kate or maybe even himself in

his darker side, uh, you know, that shadow
side, what he's capable of, but it's also

like this, this unwanted resurrection,
so to speak of, of this character that

he, that he thought was behind him.

Um, so that's what I'm saying.

Like, no, I think he, I
think he really meant it.

Trey: I'm trying to process through
it and I'm getting increasingly

aware of how silent I'm being.

But yeah, I think you bring up a good
point of, it's not something he wanted.

Obviously he went to this
character to stay dead.

And so I do think he believes it, but
I guess I'm coming from, he's trying

to run away from this, but this is
something he still has to wrestle with.

Like by the time this series is
over, he has to come to terms

with what he did as Ronan.

And so it felt like a heads-up play
as a punch, but I know it's not

something he's going to completely
run away from, if that makes sense.

Ellie: Well, the thing is that
he really can't run away from it.

Yeah.

It's something that needs to be addressed
before the series is done because clearly.

It's still an issue.

You know, there are people looking
for Ronan hit the things that he was

wearing, his weapons or still around.

So it's not something that he
could just keep hidden and pretend

like it never happened because
the impact was still there.

It's still in play.

Jude: I had a question that just came
to mind, but I'm going to save it.

Okay.

Because I feel like I'd
be jumping way ahead.

Okay.

Okay.

I'm saying that out loud
and I'm typing it down.

Yeah,

Ellie: please.

Don't forget.

Cause I'm really curious
what this question

Trey: is.

Yeah.

We'll uh, we'll pull the pin on that.

So, you know, one thing I'm going to
highlight a bounce Clint here, because

I mean, this whole episode is about.

Kate and Clint like solidifying their
comradery and how they work together.

You know, we're still in
the early stages of it.

So there's some push and pool, but
there's one thing that I absolutely

loved here at the beginning is you
see, Kate is starting to get shook

from everything that has happened.

She's she kind of goes into that moment
where she doesn't know what to do.

And Clint is like antagonize her.

It's like, Hey, you take all
that misplaced confidence

and you channel it right now.

Cause this is about to get serious.

And I it's, it shows.

There's some tough love between
them on how he gets her to

get back into the fight mode.

And I thought that was, that was
an endearing way to handle that

because there is some back and forth
ribbing between the characters.

I am jumping ahead a little bit,
but you see how she, uh, texts

Clint later on in the episode
was like, Hey, it's a good thing.

They don't call you hockey.

Or so there's some, there's
some teasing back and forth.

And this is one of the
first examples of it.

I think from Clint to Kate,

Ellie: I really loved that moment
between them because it kind of reminds

me of almost like me with my friends.

And if any of us have like any sort
of like hesitations or being like

questioning, doing something it's
like, Hey, I remember when you were

overly confident in this situation,
like channel that energy into this.

So I really loved that moment
because we've seen Kate.

Like she is a very confident
person, especially when she

puts her mind towards her.

And towards a goal, she gets it
done and it's like, I get it.

You're there.

You're a little scared of in this
moment, but it's like channel your

energy a little bit because you know,
you're with Clint and, you know,

you can get yourself out of this.

Jude: Well, and he had an amazing amount
of trust in her to, you know, escape and

say, get ready for my, um, my signal.

Um, and you know, that
trope is very typical, but.

For those characters.

He, Clinton had to have an amazing
amount of trust that she was capable,

you know, cause he wasn't really
close to her when he shot the arrow.

And so it wasn't like,
Hey, I'm here to save you.

I'm your overconfidence.

And let's go, you know,
uh, which was really cool.

And it also reminded me of age of
Ultron and Wanda a little bit was like,

you're here and we're going to do this.

You know,

Ellie: that is a really good call back.

Actually.

I feel like with Clint, he
almost like adopts people.

He's like, okay, like let's
get into like dad mode.

I have faith in you.

You've got this.

Like you're stronger than you think.

And he gets that bit of, he like
really brings in that support to

ensure that like they also know that
they're very capable of their skills.

Jude: Yeah.

Trey: So, you know, we're still in
this section of the track and field.

Uh, and I feel like one of the major
thing that we've got left is the

amazing sequence of their escape, all
the way to their, uh, subway entrance.

Um, our train entrance, I should
say, I want to start here.

You know, it's very funny to me that
so often Clint is the butt of the joke

because it's like, oh, he's just a guy
with a bow and arrow, but because of

the grounded aspect of his weapon of
choice and how much more down to earth

it is to see somebody be stabbed with
arrows or shot with an arrow, it's

much more horrifying, I think, than
any of the other super powers we've

seen because it's like easy to get
swept up in the fantastical side of it.

But watching somebody be shot with an
arrow and launch backward is brutal.

And I was not prepared to see that
in action, especially on Disney plus.

Oh,

Jude: my

Ellie: gosh.

Right?

And the thing with like, Clint's arrows
are you, you never know when it's going

to, cause it's not just a regular arrow.

It's not, it could, again,
like we see his wide array of

arrows in during this sequence.

So it's like, okay, he shoots
the arrow and it's like,

okay, what's going to happen.

Is there going to be an explosion?

Like, is it normal?

And I'm just going to get kind of
stabbed by it is Pedy going to come out?

Is it going to feel, be filled
with acid and you never know.

And that's what makes it fun as well.

Jude: You know what?

I you're mentioning that.

Cause I, in Avengers he had
like this little dial thing

that would change the Arrowhead.

If you remember, like he would,
he would, and it would kind

of rotate and attach arrows.

And it's just really impressive that
he, just to me, I mean, just if I'm

immerse myself and this is real,
like it's an, a quiver and you're

like, remember which one, when you're
grabbing that fast, cause you grabbed

the wrong one in the right situation.

That's a problem.

Trey: Well, you know, while we're
on the topic of these different

arrows or I should say Kate going
through all these arrows, it's very

reminiscent of Peter when he's going
through the training protocol and

learning one, all his suit can dear.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

And like we established it last week.

We are really these last two
episodes in a row, in a row.

We're seeing how comparable Kate
Bishop and Peter Parker are.

And, you know, they're both these
kids who are trying to lace up shoes

that are way too big for themselves,
but they're doing it anyway.

And it's kind of admirable, I
think, to see them trying in these,

these high stakes scenarios for the

Ellie: determination.

Yeah.

A lot of appreciation for it.

Yeah.

Trey: The question is not, is Kate skilled
because we know she is eats the wisdom

that Clint's bringing, because it's
not enough that she can make the shot.

You see where we're, Clint's like,
Hey, take these acid arrows hit

the traffic lights and that's
how they caused the destruction.

So through action, we're seeing how
Clint is after being worn down, I

guess is finally teaching Kate how
to be a better, you know, Hawkeye.

And so I love how the action is
communicating this and this scene.

Jude: Well, it's interesting.

I thought of him as like black widow
and Yulaina a little bit only, only

because like, well, you mentioned like
the same thing with Spiderman where

she's like trying and not learning.

It's just, it just, she was super
capable, but it didn't have, uh,

or, or Kate didn't have the flat.

That I kind of like Huck, I guys it poser.

He does that little sideways flip thing.

And the, and the I'm gonna
throw the small jab right here.

Proper use of slow-mo when
you, when you should set arrow.

And then he does the one where he.

He knelt down and looked at
the ground and shot behind him.

Like you had time to turn
around and still make that shot.

So poser, uh, when he was like, Kate's
like, I'm just going to get the job done.

And that's, that's, that's what
I found interesting about that.

Trey: One thing that I want to take
away, because there's so much that

could be said about the sequence, but
the whole point of it is that we're

seeing Kate and Clint work together.

This is finally the moment
where they're learning that

they can be a compatible team.

And so one of the things that I like that
they've done specifically with Clint's

broken earpiece is it's illustrating
that struggle with the two of them in the

communication and what it metaphorically
stands for of the gap between them.

So this could be, you know, sometimes
the curtains are just blue talk, but if

Clint is supposed to be the discipline
for Kate and Kate is supposed to be

the inspiration that Clint doesn't
feel the fact that they can't hear

each other while they're learning to
finally work together is just beautiful.

And it even becomes more beautiful to
me when you start to see the ways that.

You know, Kate is being more mindful of
the fact that Clint can't hear, because

he's like, Hey, how many are there?

And she says four and immediately
starts to hold up four fingers.

Or they have that moment where they're
like, oh, this would be easier for you.

We're facing the other way.

And so they're on the same page
despite that gap between them.

And I just thought that was a wonderful
depiction of that team forming.

Ellie: I have to say, I
really like that thing.

Cause we got that clip.

They gave us that clip like beforehand and
they were speaking to each other clearly.

But then in the episode we finally
understood that are, you know,

Clint didn't have his earpiece.

Like he couldn't actually hear her.

So when she was speaking to him,
we got those muted sounds and it

was like, oh my God, like it just
added so much more to the scene.

And I was so happy that it wasn't the same
one where they were very, just clearly

easily communicating with each other.

Well, we got, I think
it was the week before.

Jude: Oh yeah.

That the Disney plus day.

Yeah.

We've got that whole sequence.

That's what I was.

I

Ellie: was like, I was trying to remember.

Jude: Yeah, she was so proud.

She's like, we're communicating
like, you know, right now.

Not really, but didn't, but didn't in
a way it was like, like you said, it

was confirmed on the, on the subway.

It's like who got to walk the dog?

Well, you know, you're right.

I

Ellie: was so funny the way that
she just looked at him during that

scene, I was like, oh my goodness.

Trey: Well, you know, this is coming
to me now, like Clint has already

established the overconfidence that
Kate has and it's been on display.

She's a very capable and confident person.

So there's something special about the way
she gets that confirmation by Clint saying

like, oh yeah, you are, you are a really
great Archer, but he can't hear her.

So it's like, it doesn't get a
hundred percent confirmed, but

she has that smile to herself of
like, yeah, this was a good moment.

And it was, it's a victory lap
for everything that just happened,

especially coming off of that scene
where they use the teamwork for

the PIM arrow to finally get away.

So this whole, I don't know if this is
going to make the cut, but Ella, you

mentioned how you could do an entire
episode on just this chase sequence.

Um, I, I wholeheartedly agree

Ellie: so many different action
sequences come to mind, like just

across the movies that we've gone.

And I'm like, you could just, just devote
an hour to breaking down the ones seen.

Right.

Because there's just so much to look
at because you know, usually you, you

have your protagonist, you have your
antagonist, so it's like, you can speak on

what each of them individually are doing.

Then you can talk about what's
going on in the background.

You can talk about what
they're utilizing in the scene.

Like there's just so many layers to it.

It's difficult to just do an
overview, like an overview.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, it's Trey.

What's interesting.

One of the things you were saying,
honestly, my first point, I'm getting

a little ahead here onto the hero life.

Part of the outline with all that
communication and the confidence

building up between the two of them.

It's interesting.

Cause like Kate's being successful here.

Right.

And she's experiencing that success
and it's actually, and again, I'm

getting a little ahead to this,
to this point, see you on the

outline, but she's experiencing the.

And like in her head, this
is what it was, right.

This is what you do as a superhero,
you go in this and you work together

as a team and you get out and you
communicate and you're successful.

It's weird because it's like reaffirming
what she imagines when, when Clint

knows like this isn't really what it is.

Trey: Well, you know what I,
you bring up a great point.

Let's go ahead and move into the next,
most important topics so that we can

go ahead and get into that fully.

And like you said, this is the hero life.

Uh, this section is going to be for us to
discuss, uh, that diner scene where Clint

is trying to impart the wisdom of what it
means to sacrifice, to do the good thing,

uh, as well as that very emotionally
hard scene where Kate has to endure.

Uh, Clint's son for Clint,
since he can not hear him.

So I want to cause you, you bring up
a good point of Kate is having all

her wrong ideas of what this life is
affirmed by the previous action sequence.

I want to make note that there
is a moment where it does seem

like, okay, maybe the seed of her
learning is starting to take place.

And that is again the scene where
she has to interpret for Clint son.

Um, you know, there's so much talk
about Kate being spoiled, rotten,

which Clint says so himself to the
track suit mafia, whenever one was

complaining about her talking too much.

And you know, we've seen other
instances of it where, you know,

we know she comes from privilege.

I don't know if it's pure malintent.

I think there is carelessness
on her part and that's why.

She keeps finding this herself
in situations where she's putting

people like Clint out, but we
get to see her wrestle with her

consequences on the look on her face.

As she's seeing Hawkeye have to deal
with not being able to hear his son.

And I thought Hailee Steinfeld did
a really good job of conveying that

without actually saying anything
outside of writing on the notepad.

Um, so, you know, we're three
episodes in I'm sure her hero's

journey is going to be that humility
that comes with the hero life.

Um, and I think this is an important
scene to remember as we move forward.

And hopefully that lesson is learned.

Ellie: I agree.

Well, cause I mean, that's such a big
thing when we get a young hero too.

There's so much learning
that goes into it.

And especially when you take
someone like Kate or even looking

at like Peter Parker, With the MCU.

They both have the significant characters
in the significant individuals in

their life that they admire so much
and they look up to and, but they

themselves, you know, they've lived,
they're trying to live that hero life.

They're trying to hone in on
the skills that they've been.

They are so fortunate to have and
trying to figure out what to do with it.

But it all comes to the understanding of
like what being a hero actually means.

So I love that when there's that focus
on that learning aspect and also them

just seeing what their mentor like
goes through and what their life is

like, because there's also that kind
of reminder that, you know, they

don't live that different of a life.

Like they still live, you know, they have
family, they have a normal day to day.

They wake up, you know, make
some coffee, have some breakfast,

whatever, but they also just
happen to be superheroes on this.

So I love where you get that
bit of like normalcy and you get

that deeper look into what their

Jude: life is.

Yeah.

And I just, I just want to remind
everybody that you've seen winter

soldier over and over, and you know,
that superheroes do have breakfast.

I put coffee grounds in
the garbage disposal.

They do all this.

Trey: Well, you know, do cause you, you,
we went into this most important topic

because you were talking about the Mamie
wrongful affirmation of Kate's idea.

You know, I, I think this dinner
conversation is the perfect

follow-up for that chase sequence.

Because again, we now know that Kate
is up to the challenge, we'd know Clint

respects her, but does Kate respect
the responsibility and based on the way

Clint gives that heartfelt delivery of
the things you lose following this life.

And Kate's answer being like, well, yeah,
you get cool trick arrows and costumes.

We know she's not ready.

Sarah, what did you think about that

Jude: conversation?

Well, as you say, my note here on that
conversation was like, you see Clinton

put his head down and I, and I did
this specifically wrote it this way.

Specifically Clinton puts his head
down because she isn't hearing him

and like there, and we've talked
so much about this, this use of

sound through these characters to
immerse us in these experiences.

And it's like, you have, don't
have the struggle of hearing is

Maya or Clint, but you're, you're
not hearing, you're not listening.

You're.

There was some debate as is 22
and 18, really the same or not.

Cause I was, I just, I paused for a
second because as you say, you're 22 and

it was going, gonna sound so bad of like
I'm talking down about 22 year olds.

And I do, you know, I did fall on the side
of the, the 22 and 18 to the same thing.

And I asked my wife Hammond
and she's like, well, depends.

What's what was your life experiences?

And all this other stuff.

I'm just, it was a yes or no
question, what are you doing?

Ellie: But we're not trying to get that

Jude: deep, but it is like, like that was
kind of that this conversation of like,

you're, you're not hearing, you're not,
you're not listening, you know, you know,

so, so again, that use of sound comes
up, which I, which for me, that's what I

took out of that, which I really liked.

Ellie: I think it, what it kind of
reminded me of was in homecoming when

Tony has a conversation with Peter
and, you know, he says like, if you're

like, if you're nothing without this.

Then you don't deserve it.

And it's kind of like that reminder
and that push it's like you have

to be more than the technology.

You have to be more than the suit.

You have to hone in on what
being hero actually means.

Because being a hero, you have to
make a lot of like selfless choices.

Yeah.

There it's a very, very deep, so
it's like she needs to get to that

point where she herself realizes
what being a hero means for

Jude: herself.

Yeah.

Well, and I'm glad you brought that up
and cause and homecoming rights Spiderman

lost the suit and had to do it without
the stark tech, his own suit himself.

And my question on, on my
notes here was what will Kate

have to lose to take this lie?

A lot, like she has it on this pedestal,
what is she going to have to lose to take

this life off the pedestal and, and kind
of realize what you're really asking for?

Um, cause you know, like the storytelling
and the show, she's gonna have to

lose something to knock, to knock
this, this romanticize here, a life

for you down and from what we have,
I'm like, okay, what does she lose?

Like,

it's, it's, it's tough to tell because
we haven't had seen her with enough of

a relationship yet with somebody that
it's like, you know, like it's not

going to be an uncle Ben figure out.

I mean, well the only uncle Ben figured
right now she has right now is Hawkeye.

So like, do we believe

like, I don't know, like, like Disney plus
and Marvel willing to kill off Hawkeye.

Trey: How dare you.

Ellie: Oh my goodness.

I was thinking about

Jude: this earlier.

She has to lose something, right.

Trey: I'm just mad.

Jude: You know, her dad's already
assuming, or dad's already dead.

I don't think they're going to,
with three episodes left pool,

Ellie: there was no body.

Jude: So there was no
body, the classic rule.

Exactly.

You know, she doesn't exactly
get along with her mom and

let's see, like, I don't know.

Like, so yeah, so I'm, I'm really curious
or what they're going to do with that.

Cause, cause that's what they've set up.

Like he clearly in the dialogue there
sacrifices, you lose things forever.

Trey: Oh man.

Well, you know, there's one more thing
that I want to zone in on, in this scene.

And, you know, we have a pretty
pivotal moment where Clint

says I am not a role model.

And so I think this is important
because for a brief moment, it really

does seem like he's warming up to
this idea of taking Kate under his

wing because he, I mean, I don't
think you give that heartfelt.

Speech about giving something up,
unless you're really truly trying

to teach her how to do this.

And it's not until she
reminds him about Ronan.

And she wrongly says like,
oh, you're covering for him

when the truth is he is him.

But I think.

Hitting close enough to home
that he starts to realize like,

no, I can't be this person.

I'm not a role model.

And it reminds me of in game where you can
see how much he truly has lost, because

look at where he starts an end game.

He's with his family there at that picnic.

And he's teaching his daughter
how to shoot the bow and arrow and

specifically calls her, Hey Hawkeye.

So the idea of passing on that legacy
is something he's definitely thought

about, but because of what happened in
endgame and what he did as Ronan, he

has completely lost that side of it.

So to even get the glimpse of him, maybe
wanting to do that here with Kate and

take her under his wing, I think is
showing a lot with very little about

where he's at in regards to his psyche.

So I'd like that moment a lot.

Jude: I, I want to say
that his wife divorces him.

If he tries to hand down
the mantle to his own kid,

like I'm imagining what's a honey,
you know, I'm not going to be home and

neither is our daughter because she's
out shooting bow and arrows and bad guys.

I mean, I wouldn't

Ellie: blame her.

I mean, she's seen what Clint
has gone through and what

he's faced over the years.

So I'd be like, I mean, I
would be like, yeah, no.

Yeah.

She's not going anywhere near that.

Yeah.

Jude: Now to get back to your point, like
I think that going back to Asia, Ultron,

they've kind of set that up, right.

Like it go back.

Let's just, if you track Clint through age
of Ultron, we find out he has the family

life and this is truly like his job.

He's good at his job.

He believes in it.

But then he goes home to his family.

You don't really see that with the others,
even in age of Ultron, like he's talking

about, or not later in that later on,
he's like, I'm thinking about tearing

down this wall to like, and, and build
this craft room and stuff like that.

And then, and then we see in beginning
of end game, that's taken away from him.

Yeah.

And then here, he's on this New York
trip to try to gain that, to reestablish

his closeness and his relationship
with his kids, just him and the kids.

So I do think you're right, right.

Like he has a sense of passing on
the legacy, but there's such a strong

connection, you know, going all the way
back to the opening scene of 2012 with

Kate and mom and dad of, of family that.

That I think that's what
he's looking to pass on.

Right?

Like, like I think you're right.

He w he's wanting to pass this on.

Cause he's, it's like, I mean, all of
us to some degree want to retire, right?

Like we, we don't want to do this forever.

When I say this, I'm not
talking about the podcast.

I'm just talking.

Trey: That was private conversation.

Jude: But I mean, but like, you know,
I mean, you want to reach this point

where, you know, you get older and
you think about it and it's like, do I

really want to do what I'm doing forever?

You know, do I want to travel?

Do I want to do all these other things?

So, yeah, I think you're right.

Like he is.

And, and there's that element of
like that darker side of Ronan,

he has lived the path that life
can take you when it goes bad.

And in the end with that in mind,
it's like, there's also an element of

like, I can't be a role model because
I don't want somebody following this.

And to what extent can I in
good conscience pass that

on to Kate or somebody.

You know, cause that's, again, something
that you, you have to live with.

Ellie: Yeah.

And kind of like thinking about like
the whole black role model situation

and, you know, taking into it's
like dark moment where he was Ronin.

It makes cause honestly, throughout
the episode, I was thinking about the

moment where he shares that with Kate
and Mike, like wondering like what her

perception of him would be like, how
she would feel like knowing the person

that like she looked up to for so
many years ever since 2012 was Ronan.

And during the blip essentially
went on a bit of a murder spree.

Like I, I'm very curious how she's
going to process that and how, if,

how it, if her view of Clintwood.

Trey: Yeah, I, I thought
we got so close to it.

This episode, when she started
accusing him, like, it was so smooth

the way she transitioned from like,
Hey, here's a cool costume idea

to, oh, what if you wore all black?

Like she did that on a dime.

And I thought she was about to put
two and two together, but she came

so close without actually doing it.

Jude: Was that intentional?

The accusation?

Well, yeah.

Cause okay.

Cause so there's, there's two
ways you can look at it, right?

There's there's efficient storytelling and
I'm going to use the costume to kind of

placate fans and kind of nod to the fans.

Uh, like they're doing a Disney plus
series of showing the ridiculousness

of, yeah, we can't do this.

Right.

Um, and we've seen it in one division, you
know, and, and stuff of the actual comic

book accurate, except with cap Samuelsson.

Now it's comic book accurate
and fantastic, but like,

so, so you have that moment.

But there was a weird, like even the
camera, it goes from, from a way from

the shot, reverse shot over the shoulder
to like straight on when she asks.

And so, so as clearly wanting to change
and feeling of like tension when she asks

this and, and Barton's response, but it
was like, up to that point, I had a hard

time, like, did she really, like, what
clues did she have to put that together?

Or was that just, we only have
six episodes and this is how

we make this moment happen.

Like, like that, that did run
through my mind when that happened.

Cause it cause like, otherwise
it's like, it's very specific of

you to me, like go from purple to
all black and a mask, you know?

Trey: Yeah.

Well, it could be what we talked about.

Like as dead set, as, as Clint
is on finding this Ronan suit,

maybe it's just something she
finally drew the lines to get.

Ellie: I guess we'll just
have to wait and see.

I hope they give it to us.

So like, I hope that because I feel
like it is really crucial for Kate

to know this information and as
well for Clint to just share it.

And then it also brings up the
question if like the entire world

is going to find out about this.

Cause you know, we touched on it
earlier about like how the people may be

Clint if they learned that he's Ronan.

And it makes me wonder, like,
do you think it's going to be

some extremely public situation?

Like Peter's identity being exposed
at the end of far from home?

Like, is it going to be something
that's highly like publicize or is it

something that like people learn and
then it goes through maybe like the

rumor mill and then gradually more
people, more people learn about it.

Like, it's, there's a lot of
questions on how they're going to

handle this aspect of his storyline.

Trey: Yeah.

Well, I think that's going to wrap
it up for this section, which is

going to bring us to our last one,
which is a bit of a brief one.

Uh, it's a bit of a shorter episodes.

There wasn't too much towards the
end here, but this most important

topic is breaking and entering.

And this is going to deal with
Kate and Clint, essentially getting

into Kate's mom's apartment and
going through her computer to find

out more information about Kasi.

Uh, and unfortunately they
are caught by Jack himself.

So Ellie, do you have any specific place
you'd like to start within this section?

I

Ellie: just knew they
were going to get caught.

This is too easy.

I was like, are you kidding me?

Like, oh yeah, I'm sure
it's so convenient.

That absolutely nobody's home.

And you're going to be able to
walk on over to the computer and

look up what you need to look for
and then you're going to be fine.

I was like, no, no, no, no, no.

Oh, someone they're going
to get caught off guard.

Someone's going to be there waiting for

Jude: them.

Yeah.

Especially for us, especially
for a very fancy home of someone

who owns a security business.

Ellie: Oh my God.

All

Trey: right.

Yeah.

You know, I I've been on this.

I think Jack is a red herring train
since the first two episode drops.

So I got to say, I'm feeling pretty
vindicated to have Kate like clearly

spell out all her evidence and it
just falls completely flat on Clint.

And we're just like, okay, well, that's,
you know, it's not exactly a crime.

It was just, it was very satisfying
to see that all play out right.

And, and to add, cause again,
I'm on the F I'm not on the Jack

train, but I am on the Eleanor.

Maybe not being who she says she is.

It was very interesting that Clint
was like, how did Armando die?

And Kate says like, oh yeah, he
was stabbed to death with a sword.

And Clint looks at all the swords
that Eleanor has hanging on the wall.

So I think he started to suspect
something a little bit different

than what Kate is putting forth.

Ellie: I think there's something
really, definitely off with her mum.

I don't know.

I'm getting, I'm getting
some kind of villain vibes.

Maybe it's just a feeling.

Maybe it's just the haircut.

I don't know.

But something is a little off about
Eleanor and I'm wondering if, you know,

she also is, has got a bit of a secret
side of her life that she has for

obvious reasons, not revealed to Kate.

Jude: Yeah, I think you're dead on, on
that because it's just the conversation.

And the 2012 flashback was just too spot
on of, of like concerns of money and

are we gonna have to sell the penthouse,
you know, and showing this, you know,

and then she had the thing later.

Like I've not always been rich, so clearly
there's a drive to hold on to this.

Um, so yeah, so like I I'm with you.

I'm just I'm I feel like next
week's episode is going to be huge

because it's a lot of this stuff
is going to drop in this next

Ellie: one.

I would, I think it'd be so funny.

You know what, I'm going with
the assumption that we are

getting kingpin, I'm just going
to go kind of logic right now.

I think it should be.

So it's official guys, everyone listening.

Um, I think it would be really
funny if somehow, like she

was also working with Wilson.

I think that would be a very,
very interesting I'm like, maybe

this is just like seriously reach
reaching, but with like the tracksuit

mafia and how their suits are red
and episode, was it episode two?

We see Eleanor wearing our red dress.

This is why, this is why I'm like
this might be reaching a little bit.

Trey: We never, we talk about theories.

We specifically say we're
holding onto grains of sand.

You were in the right place.

Whenever it comes to throwing out.

Yes.

Jude: And, and, and in color connections
like that, we also, you know, we're

given, let's say, like we realize
sometimes the curtains are just blue

and have no meaning, but we don't

Trey: care.

That's what

Ellie: makes it fun.

Trey: So I like that.

That's a good observation.

I just thought

Ellie: of that right now.

I don't even kidding.

I didn't even have the thought yesterday.

It just, it literally just came from,

Jude: you know, what that's that happens.

So many of my, my thoughts on these
episodes of just like, oh, okay, cool.

Let me type this down.

Just realize this.

Yes.

That's the fun of podcasting, honestly.

So I have, I, I, we put a pin in this
and I was waiting for this section.

Ooh, here we go.

At the end, at the end of the whole
scene, Rodin's faced with the Rodin sword.

Yeah.

If Jack becomes Ronin or his frame
for Ronan would receive that as

a satisfying resolution for haka.

No, no, really.

He would be

Trey: getting away with it.

Exactly.

Jude: Clint, doesn't it feel like
that's kind of where it's going.

Like he has the road sword.

It, he, he feels like, you know, I
guess I'm going completely against

the red herring idea, but at this
point it's kind of hard to hold

that one on, like, you just have
the road in sword of all the sores.

To Rodin's throat.

Trey: I'm gonna do you one better.

Why is Ronan?

No,

it didn't go to me for the last second.

Uh, I, I think you're onto something.

I think there will be a path
where they can frame Ronan.

I'm sorry, where they
can frame Jack as Ronan.

But the character moment is Clint
is going to own up to it publicly.

And that is how he's going to
be like, no, I can't do this.

This was me.

Whatever comes next.

I'm a toning for the sense of Ronan.

So I think you could be onto
something there, but that will be the

character choice that Clint makes.

If this is the route they go.

Ellie: Yeah,

Jude: yeah, yeah, no, I
don't disagree with that.

I just I'm watching that.

Th they're, they're riding themselves
and out of how do you clear Kate's name?

How do you clear Clint's name?

Uh, at the same time.

Uh, but I, I do agree with you
on the, like it's not, uh, or

wouldn't be a satisfying resolution,
you know, unless, unless they

save that for season two, we'll

Ellie: say season two, work
on a, get one they're bad or a

Trey: movie.

Oh yeah.

Ellie: I could call kind of like how
with, um, Falcon, the winter soldier.

No season two, but we're
getting another captain America.

Jude: Yeah.

Wait for that.

But I also, I would love to
see Haley Seinfeld's Hawkeye

on the big screen and how,

Ellie: yeah.

It's no, it's going to, they've
already been setting up for, um,

young Avengers, all that whole,
you guys see that interview?

She got asked the question and
she looked at Kevin and Kevin was

just like, don't you say at work?

Trey: Yeah.

Kevin snipey eyes.

Oh man.

Well, you know what,
unless there's any more.

I think we can move on to stray thoughts.

Jude: Sure.

Cool.

All right.

Sounds good

Trey: to me.

So this is the section for us to
just share any straight thoughts

we may have had that did not quite
fit into the most important topics.

Uh, so Ellie, is there any stray
thoughts you have for this episode?

Ellie: Anything happens to pizza dog?

I'm never watching

Jude: this show.

Well, you know, a lot of
people agree with you on that.

I am in

Ellie: love with this dog.

Anything happens to him.

Trey: I'm just going
to fall on this sword.

Jude, you did ask what
does Kate have to lose?

Oh,

Jude: no.

Ellie: I was thinking it earlier
when you guys were talking about

it, you're like, oh, like, you
know her relationship with her mom,

there's her relationship with Clint?

And in the back of my mind, I was
like, there's a very adorable golden

retriever that could probably have
a significant impact on her life.

And then I was like,
do not say it out loud.

Trey: I'll fall on that sword.

And you can send all
your hit your Twitter.

Hate to me.

Ellie: Oh, trust me.

I will.

I'll be like, I'm like,
okay, what day is it?

Uh, December 2nd.

Jude: Oh boy.

What a day?

Trey: Uh, what about you, dude?

You got any stray
thoughts or this episode?

Jude: Uh, yeah, a couple
of straight thoughts.

Uh, let's see.

Scroll through my notes real quick.

How deep was that ball pit
then he was crawling around

that deep before, uh, I thought another
fan throughout the whole episode, but

another fantastic use of Christmas music.

Oh yes.

Oh yes.

Right from the Nutcracker.

Fantastic.

Oh

Ellie: man.

I love the Nutcracker.

Um, sweet.

I, oh goodness.

It's so good.

Jude: I started crying during
the first watch run the phone

call that really got to me.

Oh, And the last two
I've found interesting.

He says where she says the line, this is
the day I become who I'm supposed to be.

And Clint said he remembers that day.

It did wonder the back wide
with the strong push of family.

If, when he said that if he was
talking about being like an Avenger

or shield agent, or more likely,
I think he was talking about

being a husband and a father.

Um, and then lastly, I thought the whole
branding thing with the costume as like,

and I'm just going to read it because I
feel like I'm being really ageist right.

In this episode, uh, with me, it
was like, it sort of fits this day

of social media that the 22 year
old has an awareness of personal

branding to that degree, you know?

Cause like at 22 I would not have
thought of like, oh, you're your personal

brand and, and, and stuff like that.

But again, for me.

20 years ago.

So, so it was a different time
in terms of personal brand.

So those are my straight thoughts.

Trey: Yeah.

I got a couple straight thoughts and I'll
go through and pretty quickly, there is

a scene at the beginning where they're
fighting, uh, specifically Clint and Maya,

and we get a shot of Kate's perspective.

As we see Clint and Maya
fighting in the office.

And you only see from through the
window, there's shadows underneath that.

There is a sign that says
nothing held back again.

Curtains are just blue,
but Maya's fighting style

reminds me of Natasha's a lot.

And so having that, nothing held
back feels like a callback to

civil war where Wanda says, you're
pulling your punches to Clint.

So if he's thinking of Natasha a lot
in this series to be faced against

somebody who is not holding her,
their punches, it feels like an

emotional gut punch for the audience.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jude: That's nice.

And

Trey: finally my other stray thought,
you know, it's, again, another curtain

is blue thing, but so often we talk
about the story circle and how the

last part of it is having returned
to a familiar place having changed.

Uh, it's very fitting that this episode
starts with Clint and Kate captured

and at odds and ends with them captured
again, but as more of a cohesive team.

So,

Jude: yeah, that's a good,
that's a good framing device.

Yeah.

Trey: Yeah.

So again, this episode is, is, is perfect.

Uh, perfect.

Strong it's it's one of

Jude: my favorites.

No, no, no, no, no.

Don't back off of that.

Cause, cause it was that
moment then I forgot to say.

And the straight thought Kate
getting to do the same move she

saw in 2012 was a great moment.

It was a great moment.

Yeah.

And getting to see that and get to
participate in that, like, yeah.

I don't back off for perfect.

It's okay.

Trey: Oh, okay.

I'll say it's perfect caveat being,
I know there's probably recency

bias, but man, I love this episode.

Ellie: It's really good.

It's really, really

Jude: good.

Own it, own it.

Ellie: Honestly, when I think
about it, I'm like, okay.

I only remember the Falcon and the
winter soldier episode three, honestly,

but like that was, I loved episode
three for Falcon in the winter soldier.

I felt like that was like
such a moment for that show.

Yeah.

And also just like a
strong episode overall.

I might have some bias in it.

I don't know.

But.

It kind of reminded me of that.

And then it kind of like pushed
me to think about Wanda vision

and like low key as well.

Like thinking about their episode
three or, you know, they're

almost like middle episode.

Cause I feel like in a show like
this, you always get that like really

big, strong episode or that really
strong moment in the middle of it.

All you get that buildup, you get hit,
you, you know, like you hit that peak

and then you get the aftermath of it.

Jude: Yeah.

Trey: Cool.

I, uh, I think that's going
to do it for a stray thought.

So that's going to leave
us with our listeners.

First takes a, we're going to
read through some of the responses

we got on social media and how
people felt about on this episode.

Uh, starting with this one, uh,
this one comes in from Ben dot

Maddie on Insta and it says.

My favorite episode of any MCU TV
show so far, can I have a PIM arrow?

Ellie: Oh my God.

Honestly, same

Trey: with it.

And I mean this in the literal sense,
what a huge moment for the show.

Yes.

Ellie: I almost pause it cause I
was like, oh my God, I'm seeing this

Jude: right.

I agree with both of your first
reactions and to add this is the best

Clint has ever been both in terms of
action and emotion TK on Instagram.

Ellie: I agree.

Tightly paced and written this
episode has everything done.

Well, action.

Emotion, character from friend Daniel.

Jude: You don't want printed.

We're right there with you and Ellie.

I don't know if you know, Fred, Daniel
is someone I've known, um, for a few

years now you still work with, and so
friend Daniel, Trey, and I chat, and

he's been a guest a couple of times and
we call him the universal friend, cause

he's also been on Teekay's podcast.

Um, yes.

So, um, so it's fun to
have his interaction.

And I agreed, like, I think all three
of us agree with his assessment of this,

this actual emotion of the character.

And again though, the pacing was
so, cause there was a moment there

at the end of the, um, action scene
where I kinda had a let down cause

like I was like, okay, it's ending.

But then it was like, oh no, there's
more like, like this, it was well paced.

Trey: Yeah.

It's definitely a common theme
throughout these first takes.

And uh, it continues here.

Uh, this one comes in from captioned
life on Insta and it says best

episode yet of any Marvel show.

And again, like we said, I think we're all
in agreement and um, shout out to caption

life by the way that we've been recently
interacting with them on Twitter and

Ellie: podcasts.

I love that.

Trey: Yeah.

It's just so awesome.

We just, we just got recommended their
first and second episode of Hawkeye

and we both thoroughly enjoyed it.

So I'm so glad that again, like I said,
the, uh, the pod friend list is growing.

I

Ellie: love the pod friend list.

Favorite thing.

Jude: Uh, see, and don't back off any
Marvel show, a fantastic episode for

me, best fight choreography and sequence
among the Disney plus shows a very tight

and well-balanced episode, it hit the
mark and I'm looking forward to the rest.

Also pizza dog with one eye is actually
just winking at us this whole time.

Hashtag pizza dog from kid on Twitter.

Ellie: You know what I agree?

He cause he totally looks
like he's winking really cute.

It's my favorite thing about him.

That's why I wanted, um,
the, the Funko pop that came.

Jude: I didn't see the Funko pop.

I put it on the discord.

Oh, I missed, I missed it.

I must've missed it.

Okay.

Ellie: Well now this is your homework

Jude: to go find the discord and see it.

Ellie: Um, this was my
favorite episode of the three.

So far tracksuit mafia proved
a bit more of a threat.

The new villain shows to be a
strong foil to Hawkeye and the teas.

This brings me great joy also as
a father that call with Clint and

Nathaniel hit me hard from just Mr.

Melt from Twitter.

Yeah.

I, again, I agree.

Especially the Capitol tease that we

Jude: so good teas it's official.

It's Fisk, you know, and
again, I cried I'm with you.

It's a

very

Ellie: emotional moment.

Yeah, it really was.

Trey: Ah, finally, we've got
one more, uh, three more.

Do we have three?

Oh, I'm not looking at the right thing.

Yeah.

You got

Jude: to scroll.

You got to scroll.

Trey: Then remember when I said Jude
was doing my work for me earlier.

So, you know what, then I'll read
this one and then we'll continue on.

Uh, this one says, I love this episode and
I really appreciate the representation.

The person who plays Maya is actually
an amputee and Def it feels like

Hollywood has always been content.

Just address any actor up in that.

But I appreciate that they actually
got someone from that community

plus she's native American, which
I feel like we don't see enough of.

And then there were some shots that
I just absolutely loved as well,

like when they were in the car and
the camera's turning around without

cutting perfection in my eyes.

And this comes in from Paul via text.

And, uh, I'm, I'm glad Paul
brought up the, the, the, the

shot in the car, because there
were so many wonderful things that

that action sequence was doing.

Like we said, there was
so much to get to it.

It was hard to get it all, but I'm
glad he pointed that out for sure.

Jude: Well, there was a second text as
well, cause it's my cousin who texted me.

Um, and he was also happy
to see as a left-hand.

Um, person was Paul.

He was like, anytime I get left-handed
representation, I'm all for it.

I'm digging the show
episode three was fun.

Can't wait to hear your takes
skull face project on Instagram.

Okay.

I have a question for
you Ellie, real quick.

Is it Instagram or instill?

What do you say?

Or as you say, I G

Ellie: um, I feel like
I usually say Insta.

Okay.

I feel like I usually say instead, I just
cause it's faster, but you know, I started

Jude: asking people at work
and kids that I work with.

Like I like, like, I
want to know it depends

Ellie: on your audience.

Who are you talking to?

Okay.

That's the kind of

Jude: candidates, Scarface project.

Thank you for the interaction.

Cause he also messaged us.

Um, and it was fun to
talk to you through that.

Uh, and I, and hopefully you enjoy
this episode and I agree with you.

It was just such a fun episode.

I think

Ellie: we can all agree on that front.

Ooh, last one.

All right.

I'm really enjoying this series.

I'm grateful that Marvel is releasing
these shows, but I can't wait to

see this unfold on the big screen,
new type dot Nova from Insta.

Yeah.

I have to agree.

I'm excited to see it on the big stuff.

Trey: Yeah.

I was going to say what a fitting one
for you to end on, because you just

mentioned how you were manifesting
Kate being on the big screen.

So yeah, I think we're
also in agreement here.

Ellie: It's going to, it's always
fun to, I mean, cause like, I mean

the shows are absolutely wonderful.

The way that they've been
done for the small screen.

Oh, beautifully done.

Yeah.

But to be able to, cause I mean
the real true like moment is

seeing them on the big screen.

So I'm excited

Trey: for that.

Most definitely.

Well, cool.

Uh, thank you everybody for
chiming in with your first takes

on episode three of Hong Kong.

We really appreciate it.

And if you're listening and you
want to get in on that as well,

you can always search for our pre
spoiler thoughts that we put up on

the day of the episodes release.

If not the day after, uh, if
you reply to those, we will

read your first take on the pod.

Um, we're wrapping up here.

We've got predictions
for episode four left.

So Ellie, do you have any
predictions for next week's episode?

I

Ellie: don't know if it's just an F,
is this a theory or is this a want

that's that's the real question.

I have been waiting since
episode one for my girl.

Yelaina to finally make her
appearance in this show.

I've been waiting.

I need, I need Florence Pugh.

No, I need her to take some shots at
Clint and based off what I feel like

upset for is going to be, I think maybe.

End of the episode, we'll see her face.

Jude: Nice.

Well, I'm going to echo that

look tres upon person.

So anytime I can get it, but yeah, no,
I, we don't have my camera turned on, but

if we did, you would have seen my hand
shot up in the air cause I'm with you.

That's like I can't wait to see you later.

Again, what I'm most excited about is
seeing the, uh, is hopefully at some

point in an extended fashion Yulaina and.

Kate Bishop interaction.

Yeah, because I just think those
two characters, we so well together,

so it's like, I please get that.

That's that's my, that's my hope slash
prediction for next week's episode.

Trey: Well, you know what?

Speaking of, if we had cameras on,
dude, whenever you were talking about,

is Jack going to be framed for Roden?

You could not see the biggest smile on
my face because here in my predictions

for episode four, I put next week, we're
going to see Jack is not the villain

we think he is, but he's not going to
make life any easier for Kate and Clint.

I think maybe Jack is in a little
trouble of his own that he's going

to use Kate and Clint as scapegoats.

So if I'm, if I'm using your logic about
him being framed, it feels like this would

be a great narrative, like drama to see
that he's trying to use them as scapegoats

and they have the perfect opportunity to
do that to him and choose not to instead.

So that's going to be my
prediction for episode four.

Jude: Okay.

That's a good one.

Yeah.

Thanks.

Trey: Yeah.

Well, I think that's going to
do it for this episode, Ellie.

I just want to say thank you so
much for coming on, which may have

been the longest episode we've ever
done with a first-time guest and

you fit in perfectly, so much fun.

Ellie: Well, thank you for inviting me.

I was so excited when you
messaged me on Twitter.

Trey: Yeah.

W cause we were just talking about this.

We haven't really had a new guest since
before low-key so we were there's some

first time jitters we had going into
this, but it, it worked out really well

and I could not be thankful enough.

Jude: Yeah.

It was so much fun.

Thank you for, um, I mean, how could

Ellie: I not, um, I get super excited.

Talking about Marvel and I'm
like, I will take any opportunity

to talk about with anyone.

Trey: Well, if you listening are
interested in any of those opportunities,

you should definitely be falling Ellie
on, oh, add, oh, shoot podcast on

Twitter, Instagram and Tik TOK, as well as
downloading and subscribing to their show.

Oh, shoot podcast available on anchor
apple podcast, Spotify, and more now,

as far as this show, if you enjoyed this
one, you can always reach us at MC you

need to know on Twitter and Instagram.

Uh, it's a great place to, uh, get in
touch with us, share your first takes as

well as get some extra clips that don't
make it into the final cut of the episode.

So if that's interesting to you,
make sure you're following us and.

Thanks.

Jude: And of course,
scroll down to the bottom.

She can find a link to our
discord where you find a wonderful

community to talk about everything.

I just, the other day posted my 2022 book
list challenge of, uh, to read a different

book a month for 2022, and hopefully
have this community keep me accountable.

Um, but also if you're
here, you love Marvel.

Same as the people in the discord.

So make sure you go check on the
role of sign, click on the emojis

to get you access to all the spoiler
channels for this content you came for.

And of course, Don't be at then
expand that you MC you need to know

universe by sharing with a friend.

Yeah.

Trey: We'd also like to thank Nick
Sandy for the use of our theme song,

which is his rendition of Liam.

And you're saying you find more of
his work on a SoundCloud, which is

linked in the show notes as well.

That's going to do it.

Thank you so much for
listening and due to Nelly.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Jude: Thank you.

Trey: We'll see you all next week.

Ellie: I think that would be a very,
very interesting I'm like, maybe

this is just like seriously reach
reaching, but with like the tracksuit

mafia and how their suits are red.

Trey: Okay.

So, uh, uh, I think we
may have lost Ellie.

Jude: Yeah, I don't hear.

It's just

Ellie: connecting.

Trey: All right.

Well, uh, we'd like to thank Nick
Sandy for the use of our theme song,

which is his rendition of the Avengers.

Jude: Sure.

To share with a friend

Trey: what's going to suck is if Ellie
can hear us and she just hears us

laughing and cutting up, sorry, I was
trying to make the Kevin fakie nose

joke and I called him Kevin snipey

Jude: you're

Ellie: not wrong dots.

You know what?

That's actually so funny as I'm going,
working through a theory, it cuts out.

He's like, he,

Trey: he knows.

I know he knows.

Jude: Oh man.

Ellie: So what was the last thing I said?