Trey: hello.

And welcome back to
another episode of MCU.

Need to know a podcast dedicated
to the Marvel cinematic universe

and everything you need to know.

I'm Trey,

Jude: Jude, how are you doing

Trey: Trey?

I'm doing fantastic because
I'm a few days away from Dr.

Strange in the multi-verse of madness.

And I'm pumped, man.

Jude: Yeah, I am.

I have no idea.

This is the first movie in a long
time that I'm not that I don't

know when I'm gonna get to see it.

Um, I think it's going to be within the
first week, but yeah, I just haven't

been able to really secure a time.

I mean, I am pumped.

I am excited.

Trey: Um, I know it's going to be hard.

Because neither of us has seen it.

So none of this can be spoilers, but
this feels like it's going to be one

of those event movies that w that seems
to become the norm in the MCU now.

So until you see it, it's just,
I'm going to be like very tight

lip to wanting to discuss it.

Jude: Well, I feel like I've seen
spoilers without seeing spoilers.

Trey: Is it the, is it the spoilers
without contacts that are never

as clever as they think they are?

Jude: No, actually, um, it's,
it's like just scrolling through

like Facebook or Twitter cause
you know, doing other things.

And then it's like a headline saying like,
you know, the top, this of that movie.

And so the image doesn't give anything
away, but the headline doesn't give

a specific away, but it's enough that
it's like, okay, so I can expect.

You know, so it's not full on spoiler.

Cause it's kinda like from the
trailer, I'm expecting like

all kinds of stuff, you know?

Um, and so, so I just, I'm
like, that's not surprising.

Trey: It's the SEO equivalent
of, I'm not touching you, that

all these you aggregates love.

Uh, Nick Sandy messaged
me earlier this week.

He was like, dude, stay off YouTube.

I just had everything spoiled for me.

I was like, oh no, I'm so sorry.

And I got to speak to him
and uh, I can confirm it.

And he was like, yeah, I,
uh, I got it all spoiled.

Jude: Wow.

Oh, you know, which is
it's again, it's weird.

Cause like, I, I think this
is a fair statement where it's

like, even if I'm spoiled, that
has so many different meanings.

When I, when I put that pause,

Trey: speaking of pauses, my favorite
one you've done this season is whenever

we were speaking to leech and you go,
well, you know, I'm the champion of

smaller than six episodes for Disney plus.

And you held that pause for so
long that it made me so happy

Jude: so well, well, I do not want to
be spoiled on, on the shows and the

content and things, even if I got.

You know, find out about a spoiler.

I feel like if it's good, I'm still going
to be sucked in like, they, there, they

will cause I'm there to be sucked in.

And so they do, if they do a
good job, it doesn't matter.

You know?

Um, and, and there's almost
of a small bit of excitement

of like, okay, here it comes.

I've been waiting for it.

Here it is here, you know?

And so I don't think it
takes away one, 100%.

It's just.

It's a different experience cause
it's that it is a patient for, for the

moment getting excited because it's
coming versus the shock of not knowing.

Right.

Trey: And I think that's something
that, especially with us being in

this space now of our social media,
not only the algorithms, but the

people we follow because of the
podcast, it's just going to happen.

So like, I I've made peace with it, but
I still try to avoid it where possible.

So, yeah.

Well, I think that's a
good heads up for people.

I think I'm going to do a quick
solo reaction to it this weekend.

Uh, after you see it, we'll
probably circle back around and do

a more, uh, per the norm of this.

Quick reaction to it and whenever
we get to it, so we'll probably have

two episodes related to multi-verse
of madness coming up very soon.

Yes.

But of course, if you download this
episode, then you know, we're going to

be talking about season one episode six
of moon night, titled gods and monsters.

So for the last time, this season,
we're going to break this down

into some priest, boiler thoughts,
uh, followed by an audio cue.

That'll take us into the spoiler
zone before we get there.

Jude, what are your pre spoiler
thoughts for this episode?

Jude: I'm going to double down.

Uh, I think, I think the finale
curse was broken, um, in terms of

the obligatory, like the obligatory,
you said, like we have to have an, a

finale and Tara say it's up there with
a low-key finale, which is the best.

One of all the Disney plus shows

Trey: that's some high praise.

It's

Jude: I to think about it.

Cause I get the recency
bias that comes around.

Cause it is like Loki's finale.

If you look at just the finale
episodes, that's the best one.

I agree with that.

But the more I think about it
and just put the finale side by

side, this ones that might be
right there with it almost better.

I don't know.

Whoa it's it's I, I really, I enjoyed it.

I loved it.

Trey: So I think that'll be a
time for me to sneak in here.

I'll I'll stick with my priest.

Portlethen where I said almost in
contrast, this is the superhero land.

Jude: It's time.

It's time for, for MCU
to stop and shut it down.

Like outlived its usefulness.

I think it was the text you sent me.

No,

Trey: uh, That's funny.

The, uh, I, I said, this is the superhero
landing we've come to expect from the

Disney plus shows the difference being
that I think there are more character

driven moments related to things we've
already been discussing this season

that made it feel more in line with
the story rather than it be the qualms

we've had in other shows where it's
like, all right, the story's done.

Let's fight.

So I put it up there.

I think to borrow your
phrasing from Hawkeye.

If one division for me is two a, I
think Moonlight will be to be okay.

So that's, I think that's
where it's falling for me.

So Loki, Wanda.

Right under it moon
night and then hot guy.

Yeah.

Jude: Yeah.

Okay.

Is this just to change the tune?

I mean, from the other
texts you sent me, but okay.

Wait, what other stuff?

This is the whole like, like clearly
Sony's taken over everything.

The,

Trey: this is an audio only podcast.

You can't beat those lines.

They can't see your grin on this video.

Uh,

Jude: no, no, no, no, but you're right.

You're, you're definitely right
on the, on that cause like that's

going to be really interesting.

So even for as good as Loki was, and
I know we're still free to explore

their thoughts, but I'm doing this
to kind of situate mood night.

One division was my favorite because
of just the concept and the conceptual

and how creative it was as a start
to finish complete package Hawkeye.

Became my, my favorite.

Right.

And we had that one, a one B discussion,
but moon night, I liked that we can

have the JB wrap-up episode next week.

Cause it'll give you some
more time to think about this.

Cause moon night is like right up there.

I'm like you said, in that
conversation, you know, um, it's,

it's not a clear, I don't want to say
step down, but it's not well, okay.

Let's just be honest, Falcon in winter
soldier, as much as I enjoyed it, it's not

in this conversation and moon night is so

Trey: for sure, I think the, all
my qualms come back to harken back

to the, the, the champion bid.

If Disney plus doesn't
move past six episodes.

For the Marvel series, they are severely
limiting how high these shows can reach.

Uh, that's my only complaint is that
as much as I did enjoy the finale, the

pace at which things happen in this one
was almost like shell-shocked compared

for the other episodes this season.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, which makes me really,
really interested in.

Because we are supposed
to get more episodes,

Trey: more episodes, shorter runtime, I

Jude: think.

Right, right.

So, so it'll be the same link,
but the shorter, the sh you

know, the shorter run time.

So you get two more episodes, uh,
similar to one division, right?

Like when you got, you know, so
I'm, I'm curious of what that,

what that's going to do to it.

Yeah.

Trey: Well, cool.

I think that might wrap
up our spoiler thought.

So, like I said, you're
going to hear an audio cue.

And on the other side, it'll be fair
game for all spoilers in the MCU.

I guess it's important to note
this now, not including Dr.

Strange and the multi-verse of
madness that one has now been exempt

and the spoiler zone, and will not
be out of the exemption until a

week after it lands on Disney plus.

So you're safe to listen moving forward,
especially cause we haven't seen it.

All right.

See you

Jude: right now for you.

If you're new LR, a couple of months,

Trey: That too.

Yeah.

Thanks Jude.

Who remains?

We'll see you on the other side.

Um,

and we're back.

So the way we're going to handle this
is we're going to break this down into

the four most important topics of this
episode, starting with the Egyptian.

Reunions gods and monsters
and laters Gators.

Now, before I throw it a huge,
weird, I do want to say this.

I texted you immediately after finishing
the episode and the history of this show.

I don't think anyone has ever been as
correct as leech, whenever she guested

on the episode and we were speculating
about what could possibly be happening.

And she goes, it's probably
going to be some amalgamation of

everything we've said and something
we haven't even thought about yet.

And then this episode, I feel like
we all had just a nugget of truth.

So I just wanted to, I
wanted to put that on the

Jude: record, writers' room
was clearly scouring, you know,

Reddit forums for that episode.

And just like a little bit of everything.

Is that right?

Reddit forums.

Anyways subreddits,

Trey: but it's fine.

Listen, I don't want to get
into another four page paragraph

of why you hate reading

Jude: so well, it's like, it's like,
it's like, no, it's a subreddit.

It's not a forum.

It's like, okay, come on
Starbucks, it's a coffee.

Like why, why do you want me to, you know,
eventually Starbucks is like bought in.

Like, you can just order a larger
media and they don't chastise you for

it, but not ready to use your snow.

It's a subreddit, not a forum.

Okay.

Trey: I just love how
upset you get at Reddit.

Jude: Anyways.

Trey: So like I said, we're going to
start with the Egyptian superhero.

This section is going to be for us to
detail all the scenes that involve Layla

as she is trying to put a stop to HARO
on her own, uh, refusing to wear it

for the avatar status, as well as the
super cool reveal of her hero costume.

So starting with you, Jude, where would
you like to start within the section

Jude: mixed feelings when
she became the avatar?

Uh, cause there was, and maybe there
was just some confusion on my part.

Right?

Cause, cause I really, really loved
cause the obvious choice is like or

what, well, a little limited change
the back, the, the quote unquote

stereotypical show choice of a show
like this is, yes, I'll be your avatar.

Cause we got to fight, you know?

And like there's like, no.

Do it on my own, you know,
which, which I loved.

I loved that sense of like,
no, I got this, I can do this.

And not because it's like
a, like I'm strong enough.

It was a, it was a sense of agency thing.

Right.

It was, you know, I am going,
I get to make my own choice

and be proactive in that.

And so I loved that.

And so, so later when she did have to
become avatar, see, every time I say that,

I think of Ang, but the, you know, to,
to become that avatar, it was like, okay.

She, she just, she did still choose it.

So she didn't lose that sense
of agency, but she didn't really

have a choice either because.

It was completely outmatched without it.

You know what I mean?

And so I had this weird conflicting there
cause I loved it, but there was an element

is like, I, I couldn't, I didn't know
how it felt if they, if they like undid

that choice earlier to say, no, I, cause

Trey: I did like at least how they.

Conscious you is also in the mix because
we have is the first one to say like,

Hey, you know, you, you can be my avatar
and we can work together to do this.

He was like, no, I'm going
to stop hair on my own.

And then once she frees Concho,
he's offering the same, the same

status, but she turned it down.

Once again, I can see where it
feels like it does undo that choice.

But I think it's because it's on
Layla's terms because she's, she's

detailing it with tar wherever it,
which is like, this is temporary.

This is just to finish
this and then we're done.

Whereas concert was gonna, you know,
as far as we know, it was going to be

forever because he doesn't have a lot of
wiggle room when it comes to mark Spector.

Uh, so I'm glad Layla at
least stood up to him.

And I think the importance of
them contrasting Concho here.

As we see how, or at least we get
confirmation of the way he manipulated

mark, because we talked about it
last week with the like, you know,

he's burying the lead with protectors
of the travelers of the night.

Oh.

But you're actually just going to
go out and kill these people for me

again here, when he's speaking with
Layla, he he's trying to guilt her

in it by saying like, oh, mark died
because he was in crisis over you.

And we know though, that's not true.

It was the crisis of the
inability to accept the truth

of the trauma and his mother.

So right there, concha is caught in a
lie and nobody within the show knows

that, but it's, Layla's character.

That holds true against his manipulation.

So we still got the success of
being heard choice and on her

terms when it comes to tile

Jude: ribbon right now,
and I think that's good.

Like, and that's what I mean, like, I
didn't dislike as much as pre spoiler.

I prior to the spoiler zone, like I
praising this, but then there was that

element of like, it was, it was just
a fine needle to thread, but I liked

the, I liked the terms you put it on.

And I was like, she, it was,
it was on her terms, I will

Trey: say.

However, it's got to learn to
keep their cool, cause they

almost put Layla in danger there
because she was like, perfect.

Like hidden.

She got the, uh, the Shakti, she broke it.

She was putting things in motion.

And then finally, whenever she
starts to be like, okay, Uh, she

comes back and screams Layla, like
so loud and just gave away her

position that, that made me laugh.

And I don't know if that was intentional,
but that was, that was really funny to me.

Jude: Oh, it had to be intentional.

Cause, cause I mean, we said
it that other episode, right.

There's just that, that
personality, the listening, Leslie

Knope of Egyptian gods, right?

Like just so excited and
you know, hold on, hold on.

Let me, let me, let me get my binder
out and, and flip through the pages.

Um,

Trey: yeah, which kudos to may Columbia.

'cause she everybody's talked so
much this season about Oscar Isaac

of jumping between the identities.

She does it here where she's of course
the Layla character, and then she's

supposed to be embodying the voice of

And as they jumped back and forth
between the being the pain of being

the voice of a God and the God
being all happy and expressive in

their emotions, I thought that was
a pretty fluid jump back and forth.

Jude: Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

It was really impressive.

I mean, well, first just across the
board, I want to say this and then

put a pin in it until next week,
but just, just across the board.

Ethan Hawke, Donna, like, um, like just
across the board, it was so well done.

And so believable.

Trey: Yeah.

Is it Abraham F Murray, the
voice of country as well?

Jude: No.

Flip that F F Murray Abraham, I believe.

Yeah.

Trey: I really think it
would be fun at some point.

And the list of all the episode
ideas, we have to evaluate the

shows as a whole of the cast.

Like just evaluate like the cast
performances themselves, because

Moonlight for sure has got to be up there.

I think, I think he made a good point
about how across the board solid as heck.

Yeah, man, it'd be fun.

I like

Jude: immediately you say that and
I'm just thinking about one vision.

Okay.

Table,

Trey: that it would be fun and it's
not to disparage any of the talent.

It's like, you know, forced to choose
which, which shows had the most static.

Yeah.

Jude: Well, and I don't even know if
I'd say stacked in terms of, cause so

far, I'd say this might've been the most
stacked in terms of name recognition.

Trey: Well, I'm in performance,

Jude: but that's what I mean, like in
terms of like just complete performance

had his body in, cause this one.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's tough.

Okay.

Trey: We'll put a pin in it
and we'll come back to it.

One of the most important things
we need to get to in this first

section though, is after Layla has
been going around and trying to put

a stop to HARO, had the meeting with
Khan Shu was rejecting to our web.

And at first she eventually
decides on her terms to do it.

And we have a very cool revelation
of her costume Sudip scene.

What'd you think of that reveal?

Jude: My first thought was she rocks.

Okay.

Yeah.

Um, now I know others who've said to
me later, like the wonder woman, 84,

because of the, the wings and the goal.

But yeah, because of the, why I thought
she wrote it, it made me immediately think

of like He-Man and, um, I don't know why.

Uh, but yeah.

Yeah.

I loved it though.

I remember

Trey: cause like it's coming
down the pike, you can see it.

They're alluding to it.

And she comes through the rubble and was
like, okay, that's a really cool suit.

I like that.

And she starts to reach behind her.

I was like, okay, cool.

I guess she's got swords.

When the wings popped out.

I was like, oh man, that went from like a
cool costume to one of the best costume.

One, one fell swoop.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

Like in, it was that's the other
thing T you know, episode ideas.

Let's just talk about the suits and
the costumes, because that w was just

so like, it was so good in terms of.

Superhero, but it had that kind of
Egyptian ancient feel, you know, but it

also felt or looked practical, you know?

And so it just really hit the mark.

Yeah.

Trey: I th I think the practicality
of it helps it a lot, uh, especially

because unfortunately I think
some of the moon night sequences

did not look great costume wise.

Like it just didn't look finished.

So in contrast Layla's costume,
which I believe, I think they're

on, on social media, they're
calling her the Scarlet scarab.

Yes.

That suit looked phenomenal.

Of course, we do have some fight sequences
of hers to get into, but we're going

to put a pin in that and we're going
to come back to it and group the fight

sequences in a later most important topic.

But I think unless there's any
more, we can go ahead and move into

the next, most important topic.

This one is reunions.

So within this episode, we have a lot
of characters getting back together

for the first time in this season.

So we have Ahmed and Khan Shu as
they discuss their ideologies.

We have HARO and Ahmet getting together
once again, as well as mark and Stephen

reconciling after last week's episode.

So starting with me this time, I
am going to start with mark and

Steven, because I think so much of
my enjoyment of this episode is off

the back of that scene, where we see.

Mark has gotten everything he wants.

He's finally got peace.

He's made it into paradise,
the field of reeds.

And he decides to leave it to
go be with Steven because after

everything they've been through so
much of the season has been them at

odds and not accepting each other.

They accepted each other in
the last minutes last week.

And because of that, that is what propels
them forward through this episode.

And we see it later on in the action
sequence, how much that is the reward

of the work that's put into this scene.

So mark and Steven, having that very
tearful moment where mark is like,

you know, you, you are, you saved
me and I wasn't able to protect you.

And I'm sorry, the fact that we know
the guilt of him not being able to

protect his younger brother, maybe
some sort of projections into what

Steven's relationship is to him.

Finally, being able to, to
forgive himself for that, I

think was a very powerful moment.

I, I really enjoyed that scene.

Jude: Yeah.

I think that if Steven wasn't, I
mean, well, let's put it this way.

I'm going to go back to, to Oscar,
Isaac, his performance, because if Steven

wasn't such a lovable character that
wouldn't have worked, you know, and, and

the only reason I say that is because
there is an element of God that was

such a tough needle to thread, right?

Cause there's, there's the
whole, like we follow as an

audience in love with Stephen.

So you really feel that if he's gone,
but that is the identity, that's

the dissociative identity to protect
himself from the horrific trauma.

And so there's also a moment of
healing too, so we can S for mark,

so we can say Stephen goes away and.

And so you have to, so it's like they're
walking this fine line of like, yeah,

you're healed from this trauma, but
there's this recognition of not letting

go of Steven by, by March part that
I think still has to come across as

healthy, otherwise that balance and growth
of the character doesn't make sense.

And that's why I say that was, felt
like a really hard needle to thread.

And I think, you know, just shows how.

Well crafted Isaac's performance
was of those two characters,

Trey: a hundred percent, because last week
you were right that if we're following

this, this story of mark and he's finally
made to borrow your word or your phrasing

healing, like he understands why this
identity was originated and he understands

that he may or may not need it anymore.

It would make sense that we
wouldn't see Stephen again.

Right.

But selfishly speaking for me,
selfishly, I'm glad he's back.

And I think they, that they
did find a way to work that in

Jude: well, and I think recently in
an interview, Oscar, Isaac said he

enjoyed Stephen in terms of like, which
one he played more than he did mark.

Trey: That feels right.

Because I remember when, whenever we asked
this question about no way home of who

was the best Spider-Man in that movie.

And we S we, we were kind of
twisted knots, but we talked

about it's clear, Andrew Garfield
was the one having the most fun.

Yes.

Oscar Isaac seemed like he was
having the most fun with Steve.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Jude: That's a good

Trey: way.

But just by nature of the character, it's,
it's hard not to, to have fun with them,

which I think like I can lead this into
one of the other reunions we have is when

Steven and mark are now unified in their
goals, they are negotiating with Conchero.

I wasn't expecting Steven to be
so confident in the Moonlight

status with his suit, Mr.

Knight and sitting there negotiating
with Concho, like the calmness at which

he is like, oh, you silly old bird.

And he puts his leg up over his other leg.

And it's just trying to make sure
that when they're done, they're free.

Ah, man.

I'm so glad Steven's back.

Jude: Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Like it's just, it's interesting
because the way they.

Showed them them meaning mark and Steven
switch out seamlessly, you know, so, you

know, th that, that carried through the
theme of yes, they truly are balanced.

Um, and in that, in that way, um, and
you know, and, and so again, it's a show.

Don't expect them to show dissociative
identity disorder as accurate.

And, you know, as far as I understand
dissociative identity disorder, the

word accurate is not a proper word
to use, uh, because even experts

won't like that, the DSM five, right?

Uh, the manual with all the different
diagnosis and descriptions it's in there.

To get an actual, as I understand it,
to get an actual diagnosis, what it

is, what it looks like, the differences
between that and say like borderline

personality disorder, or just associate
of, um, uh, oh, there's another

one, uh, with a just association,
but experts disagree, you know?

So even to say accurate is kinda
not right, but for what they were

doing in the show, this was, it works

Trey: so well actually the way, like
all season we saw how much it's been.

Clever ways to make the switch.

It's either say clever, but it's sometimes
it says as blunt as just the blackout

come back to more, we see the reflections
in some sort of reflective surface.

And then that's when they're
able to make the switch.

But the way the camera is able to have
Moonlight there, it pans up to Concho

as he's speaking and it comes back down.

And now it's it's Mr.

Night, or maybe the reverse of that.

I thought that was all well
done because they mask the.

For lack of a better way of putting
it, but nanotech of iron man suit the

way that, that materializes on them.

They don't have to do that
every time between Mr.

Dayton, moon night and the ease at
which they do that speaks both to

their newfound teamwork, as well as.

Clever ways of getting
us in and out quickly.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and, and what they did with mark,
Steven and Concho, I need to, I need to

watch this whole series of kids start
to finish and just like pause and take

notes and spend like a month doing this.

Cause like what, like what they did
with them, those three characters in

terms of what we bring up a lot is
the hero's journey of the story circle

in a very classic hero's journey.

You have the magician
slash mentor role, right?

A magician.

If you're using the Carl Young terms,
mentor, if you're using the Joseph

Campbell, you know, um, hero's journey.

Uh, but in terms of like archetype or
they're doing the same thing, but it's,

it's so interesting because like there's
a lot of ambiguity in terms of like,

kind of has a little bit of that mentor
magician sets you on a journey role.

But so does mark for Steven and Steven
for mark and, and, and part of that

hero's journey and story circle is
you have to take what the mentor has

given you in return with it, right.

And in that, you know, and, and you,
and you see that happen between the

three of them, but aside from you, mark
and Steven is like, the mentor is the

same physical body, you know, um, the

Trey: mentee

Jude: and well that, well,
that's what I'm saying.

Like the mentor, like, I guess
I'm trying to say, like, in a

way, Steven is Mark's mentor.

And Stephen's mentor.

So it's like the same physical body and,
and, and, and that balancing of, of mark

taking in using Stephen and, and stuff.

And, and so it just, it was a really
clever way to adapt that in and use the,

the did to kind of it's like that self
mentorship, you know, like, like you

could always have done it, it's within
you kind of this realization, so to speak.

Trey: That's an interesting
way to look at it.

I've never thought about them, both
being the mentor, mentee within the same.

Physical body, but two
distinct identities.

That'd be, that'd be a fun thing
to keep in mind in a rewatch.

Jude: Yeah.

Uh, so, so let's pause the pod.

I'm going to go watch it and
we'll see you in about six hours.

Sounds good.

All right.

And we're back.

Okay.

Magic of editing.

Trey: So do you learn anything new,

Jude: um, popcorns and beer
doesn't go well together.

That's that's, that's what I've learned.

Um, no, not really.

I've I've, I've known
that for a long time.

Well, a little bit more free
when it's just the two of us to

kind of, I know I'm just, I'm

leaning

Trey: into not to disparage the guy.

It's just like, I don't think
the guests realize how much.

When it's just,

no, I don't want to say professional
because we still do get silly at

times, but we're there's little, the
rains have been released a little bit.

Jude: Right?

Well, Melissa conscious and we
talk about it a lot off pod.

The two of us about, um, having
the guests and making, you know,

they're on for a reason, we want
to hear what they have to say.

So we're going to make that space.

You know, to, for, for them to speak.

So we ended up raining ourselves
in a little bit in that that's

Trey: funny.

Well, you know what?

Speaking of the space to speak, I think
one of the other ones we can get into in

this reunion section is HARO finally gets
everything he wanted and freeze Ahmet.

I know I personally found it pretty
funny that so much of this season has

been about the dedication of HARO and
the links that, which he goes to live

to this rigid belief of the scales.

Um, it's free.

And it's like, well, I lived within the
rigidity and got locked for 2000 years.

So even though you are unbalanced,
I'm still going to let you be my

habits because it serves me this time.

Right,

Jude: right.

What I find so funny about that
is the premise of Ahmed is.

I know you're going to do bad.

Right.

So we're going to stop you.

And so there's no belief in redemption
and until that moment for that one person,

you know, and it's just like,

Trey: But I don't think it's like,
it doesn't make the show bad.

I think it just points out the
hypocrisy of, of Ahmed, which is fine.

And I'm speaking purely of the MCU show,
not getting it as he not getting into

any of the historical texts whatsoever.

And so it works.

It's just, it's very funny.

And I think there is some contrast here
because Ahmed is apparently disciplined

in these principles, but ends up breaking
and she has a bit of, I'm doing this

for the greater good, but on the flip
side shoes and jerk man, like he's

constantly referring to everybody as
worms, or I'm trying to stop you from

making this terrible thing happened.

But at the same time,
he's so manipulative.

So like you have.

Concho being the quote unquote good
guy while being the, the most ruthless

verbally, if that makes sense.

Whereas Ahmet is saying nice things,
but the actions are the ruthless part.

So there's something there.

I just, I would say it's speaking
of rewatch, that's something that

I would need to go back and pay
atten a little bit more attention to

now that we have the whole puzzle.

Yeah.

Jude: Well, you know
what, it's interesting.

I tried to think, would this have been
satisfying and the, okay, so the rules

of the show, I don't know if they could
have made it work, but, but they actually,

no, I think they could have made it work.

I think if that religious
fanaticism, if they would have.

Leaned into that just a little bit
more like clearly it was there, right?

Like they started running up and down and
the idea that just because they had the

tattoo, they also had the power to judge,
which was interesting, but I don't think

I would have been unsatisfied with this
and it would have been really shocking.

I wouldn't have minded seeing
them to be consistent and

have Ahmet do away with HARO.

Right, right then.

And that would have been shocking,
but I don't think it would have

been unsatisfying of like, oh,
I didn't get to see this final

showdown because now it's Ahmed.

And I would say Ahmed from the other
followers who are worthy, it's, it's

almost like the end of Ironman, three
in reverse where Tony stark was jumping

in and all those different suits.

And you're seeing Ahmet jump in and out
of all the different followers as avatars,

Trey: I think I'm on that limb
with you because one of the

things we talked about in previous
episodes is what makes HARO, so.

Intimidating is the depth of the belief.

And in this revelation, he was like,
I thought, my, you know, my work would

be pennants and then my scales were
balanced, but I see that's wrong.

I accept my fate.

It would have been like, oh wow.

It would, it would be, I think
it would continue on that line

of intimidation of like Hearos
gone with the ideas still lives.

Oh yeah, that would,
that would be horrifying.

But in terms of stuff we'll get into
later, I feel like they were locked

into having to need HARO around
specifically that scene where mark

and Steven are back in the psych ward.

I feel like just the medically, they
need to keep her around, but I can

see your point of like, yeah, I think
it would still be satisfying if Ahmed

decides to do away with HARO there.

Yeah.

Jude: Yeah, I think so.

I kind of wonder if.

That was ever in the
development process and option.

Trey: Um, yeah, that, oh, I didn't ever,
I keep, I always forget until right after

the finale of like, oh, we might get
into a symbol documentary on, not that I,

not that I don't know if they'd go into
that level of minutia, but it would be

interesting to see what, what discussions
were had in the writing room for this.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

Cause it, and cause that, that would
have been, yeah, I don't think I

would have saw that as unsatisfying.

Um, and I'm going to say this to go
back to my point of where it broke

the curse of the obligatory fight.

Is it really, I mean, for me it didn't
feel like we had the fight cause we

had to have it cause it was the show.

And, and I think that
if, if they would have.

Killed off HARO that would have even
up the stakes, even more in terms

of the intensity of the fight, it

Trey: feels like we're getting ready
to move into the next section, which

we do have for all the fight sequences.

But I do want to take some time to detail
how much I loved Ahmed's character design.

Uh, they referred to her as the
weird crocodile lady earlier in the

season, but man, actually coming to
fruition, I thought she looked great.

Not necessarily meshing well with
the realism of live action and

the CGI character, but on a pure
aesthetic of the model, I thought

it looked really, really cool.

Jude: Oh yeah.

A 100%.

You know what I w I was really
impressed with the animation

of Ahmed and, um, country.

I think there's some, there's some
things visually, you know, CGI wise

where it's like, okay, that felt like a
little, like, okay, you ran out of money.

Um, but I don't think I, I don't, I
didn't feel that way with Ahmet and,

um, country in this last episode,

Trey: I think it's not, it's more seamless
when it's two CGI characters that it's

it's, it's not as easy to draw comparison.

But whenever on it's interacting
with HARO, that's where it

starts to feel like, okay.

Like, yeah, it feels a little off.

I think the one that stood out to me
the most is after mark and Steven except

Concho again, because they go through that
entire flashback sequence of like, do you

swear to protect the trailers of the night
kind of thing when he suiting up again?

That to me, that's what
looked under cooks.

Um, so there there's, it's a little bit,
I like the way you put it ran out of

money, budget wise and some sections,
but as far as conduit and Ahmet together,

I can see that holding up a little bit.

Jude: Yeah, yeah.

To me, that held up really well.

And I'm just going to take us into
see the gods and monsters, because

one of the thing I was most impressed
about with that whole sequence.

It was how the fight between Amit
and Concho, mirrored, the fight

between moon Knight and HARO
and, and like who was winning.

And, and so you could see truly like
this battling out of the gods through

humanity, you know, and, and with
the CGI in that sequence, I mean,

cause there was so much CGI in there.

I never looked at that and
thought, oh, that looks bad.

Like I was with it the whole way through.

'
Trey: cause I talked about whenever
it was two CGI characters up against

each other, like that worked.

It was the trying to
mesh CGI in live action.

The shot now worked the best for
me is when Khan, Concho and Ahmed

are just giant size and they're
fighting in the background.

And then the carer keeps moving
and you see horo coming into frame.

That shot looked incredible like that
that's stuff like that really worked.

Some, some of the ones where it
started to fall apart is as much

as I love the framing of the shot,
where a Moonlight has flown in at

mock speed it through the night sky.

And he lands on the pyramid and the camera
tilts and the running at each other down

the pyramid, that kind of felt a little
weird, but the framing of it was cool

enough that I was like, okay, this is
I'm, this is indulgent, but I'm loving it.

Jude: Yeah.

Like, I, I I'm with you.

Like, I can see where it's like, okay,
you could have touched it up a little.

Uh, it didn't stick out to me, you know?

So like in that first episode, Of
the entire season when the water

cause the sink is broken to me
that that spilling over water from

the broken sink was obviously CGI.

And like, I can just tell immediately
and, and because I could tell immediately

it was like, okay, I was just lost that
sense of our suspension of disbelief.

Right?

Where am I even in that I didn't get that.

No, it did it.

Didn't take me out.

Trey: It's forgivable.

Jude: Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Forgivable is a great word.

Yeah.

Trey: And there's a part of it.

Like we're what six, five series
deep into Disney plus territory.

Now you, you see where the ceiling is
sometimes when it comes to the, the

limitations of it being a show and
I'm, I'm much more comfortable with

that than, than in previous times.

Um, but sticking with the
fight scene was one of the ones

that I wanted to highlight.

We talked about putting a pin in it
is with Layla, the Scarlet scarab, her

sequence, I thought was really, really
sweet because the way they incorporate

the wings of her suit, very Falcon ask.

But I love that they devoted time
for her saving the people in the.

And then they had that little
girl who's like, are you in Egypt?

In superhero?

And she just simply says, I am.

And the fight continues.

I thought that was super sweet.

And it, I there's been articles
where Mohamad Diab has talked about

how important it was to set up the
first Egyptian superhero forum.

And I'm glad that they got to have that
integrated in, into this fight sequence.

Yeah, well

Jude: it, okay.

And that's the other thing is they did it
in such a way that it was clearly like,

Hey audience, if you don't realize we have
some representation going on right here.

Right?

Like, like this is
important, but it wasn't.

Gratuitous might be the
word I'm looking for.

Like it wasn't, it wasn't.

So like, I'm going to hit
you over the head with it.

Like it worked, it fit, it
felt you, you know what I mean?

Trey: It's an, it's a nice declaration
statement in the paragraph of this season.

Okay.

Jude: Yeah.

Cause it's just, I mean, you know,
like there was the complaints about

in-game on some things where it
was like, oh, you just did this.

Cause you had to.

And it was just like, that doesn't
mean it wasn't a cool moment.

You know, whereas for me it was
like, yeah, this was a cool moment.

You should call it out.

Cause it it's, it's it's worth
it, but it, it didn't feel that

way to me, if that makes sense.

Trey: I think what helps it
a lot, at least for me is the

inspirational nature of it.

Having that, having it through the eyes of
that young girl, I think is what sells it.

Because as much as, I mean, we're both
grown men, we love the superhero stuff.

The heart of superhero
shows is the inspiration.

And I think that's what Marvel is good
at capturing it from all audiences

of bringing that inspiration in.

And so to have that specialness of that
moment in this finale was really cool.

Yeah.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, and especially, I'm trying to think.

Okay, so who have we had that?

I mean, in black widow, they kind
of point out black widow of like,

like, Hey, you're still a killer.

You know what I mean?

They, they had that.

Yulaina Natasha like I'm, you know?

Yeah.

Kids look up to you, but you're killing.

Kind of moment.

Um, you didn't ever have that moment
with Kate Bishop because Kate Bishop

was doing that with my blinking Clint,
Barton, you know that, um, couldn't

have that moment with Scarlet,
which really, and one division, um,

yeah, like Tiana Paris, not really.

They didn't have that kind of
moment with captain Marvel of

just like a clear recognition of.

Trey: Inspiration.

Yeah, captain Marvel.

I would push back in the Monica Rambo.

Young Monica Rambo was very
much inspired by captain Marvel.

Okay.

I'm trying to think of the other
ones you listed the other ones.

Jude: Well, I'm going to push
back on that one, but go ahead.

You go

Trey: first.

The other ones listed, I, I obviously
superheroes are much in broad daylight,

but they're not as public bound.

If that makes sense.

Like Yulaina works in the shadows.

Scarlet witch until very
recently was very much.

Not as public until unfortunately she is
in both cases of, uh, of Lagos' was it?

And then, uh, one, uh, Westview Sarah.

But as far as like captain Marvel, I think
that they're a little bit more public

facing, but they had the interaction with
Monica Rambo that which inspired them.

Jude: Yeah.

And the only the pushback I would
have on Monica and captain Marvel

from the first movie would be,
there was a prior two things.

There was a prior relationship, you know,
um, of knowing her when she was younger.

And so like that was already there.

They, in other words, they
weren't strangers, you know?

Um, and then depending on your reading
of the film altogether, um, there was

a lot closer of a relationship of them
three, then that was implied rather than

being an explicit, if that makes sense.

Um, Yeah.

And so that's why, you know,
it also pushed back on that.

Not that it wasn't inspiration, but, but,
but to have it, it was, it was a different

dynamic than what you'd get in room night.

Trey: Well, I mean, sticking with my, my
phrasing, it was the public inspiration,

like the eyes of, of, of the public.

And so I see what you mean on that regard.

So, yeah, I, it would be fun to
go back and re-examine a lot of

the public's relationship with the
superheroes because you have the most

important ones, like civil war, where
it's brought up front and center.

But these little moments like in the,
are you, the Egyptian superhero or

Hawkeye was plenty of them, it would
be fun to, to figure out something

to do episode wise with that.

So sticking within this section
of gods and monsters, a lot

of the action sequences.

I am thrilled.

Again, I talked about in the reunion
section, the reason this episode works

so much for me is they imbued the lessons
of mark and Stephen working together.

In the action.

So it felt like the cap on the story,
they were telling, having them jump back

and forth between moon Knight and Mr.

Knight so seamlessly
and on Stephen's part.

So confidently was really rewarding
in this episode, that scene where

Stephen is fighting and he takes
that moment to like flick his

jacket and dust off the shoulders.

Yeah.

Dang man.

What?

Oh, what a turn from Stephen
since episode one to now?

Jude: Well, and the one where he,
the, he threw like his stick, but Mr.

Night and moon Knight caught it.

That was like, You know, my first I was
like, wow, did they, was that a jump cut?

Was that a bad edit?

I was like, no, if that was just
a good visual way of showing how

synergetic they are, how is that a word?

Um, see, look at you.

Trey: my favorite part was you were
doing your little hand mess and you

got mad and threw your hand, not mad,
but you like threw your hands down.

Look at you.

Jude: Now, here is one of the
things I loved about the fight, the

resolution, I felt so conflicted.

Trey: The resolution being.

Binding Ahmet to HARO or the violence

Jude: blackout.

Yeah.

Where they, they ended up winning because
Jake took over and we didn't see it,

but it's like, it's like, wait a minute.

The people we're supposed to be
cheering on when air quotes, but it's

because of the violent psychopath
we've yet to meet at this point of

the episode, but we all know exists.

And so it's like, it's hard to feel like.

Like wait a minute.

I don't, I felt so conflicted

Trey: there.

I think this is where it was clear as day.

For me, the adherence to six hours
really hurts the show because up

until this point, it's like, yeah,
I, you know, I'm liking this.

This is fine.

Whenever he blacks out Hearos
incapacitated, the camera's

panning around them is like,
I'm assuming that wasn't you.

And Steven's like, Nope.

And then it pans over to Layla's.

It's like mark, what happened?

And he goes, I blacked out.

It really felt like they were building
up to this meeting of, we were

finally going to unveil Jake Lockley.

And then it's like, oh, that was weird.

I know how to finish this.

And so they just went in back into the
fear of it and they bound to have it.

I think this show has a, a problem
in the way they worked in the third

identity, but the third identity
identity was relegated to a postcard.

Like it's like, they both wanted to
acknowledge it, but didn't really want

to incorporate into the story they
were telling right down to the way

how everybody and our discord that's
been a conflict of like, okay, well,

how are the scales balanced if Jake
Lockley was in there this whole time?

And there's been some fun
discussions back and forth how

that could logically make sense.

But

Jude: I wouldn't say that it does
logically make sense, but go ahead.

Trey: Yeah, I'm on that same camp
too, because to me, I read it as it's

not bouncing of the personalities.

It's the bouncing of the
acceptance of each other.

And if they don't know the
other one's there, then there's

no need for that to balance.

However, it's come from a
storytelling perspective.

It's very muddied and what they're trying
to do by wanting to both introduce this

mysterious identity, but not really
pay it off in any regard, other than

setting up for potential storylines,
but there's no confirmation that we're

going to get a season two, which I would
be fine with if they didn't hammer.

So much of this is a limited series.

This is its own thing.

Who knows when these characters are
going to pop up again kind of thing.

Jude: Right.

Well, and that's the thing though we know
from the show and show, we know from the

show, Steven is the creation of Martin.

And if neither one of them know about
Jake, there's that question still looming.

I'm assuming Stephen create
can't create another person.

So it has to be a creation of mark.

Maybe that tracks for me, I mean, it
tracks, but it's like, what was that?

A creation of mark, another dissociation
while being country's Vista vengeance.

Was it how he, you know, w we, we,
we see, we joked about with slushie,

about being, you know, in the military,
going a wall and what a Steven showed.

Like you could, while it might
logically tracks of like, okay, so

Stephen can't create only mark can,
but it could track that if also to say

Steven is completely another identity.

And if he shows up in one of
those situations, another identity

shows up without realizing it.

And so that's why mark doesn't
know Stephen doesn't have

you, you know what I mean?

Like they could write a story that way.

And that's why I say it makes sense that
the balance is between the two of them.

Cause they only, like you said, no.

Um, but I agree with you in the sense
of it's dare I say the power broker.

Trey: Yes.

I think that's actually a great
one-to-one because both PowerBroker

and this third identity, I'll just
say, Jake, I don't know why I'm

trying to keep it as secret anymore.

Uh, the PowerBroker and Jake are
both referred to within their series.

Yeah.

Indirectly in Jake's case,
directly in the power brokers case.

And the resolution is, are not
necessarily the resolution, but

the meat of their story is in the
post-grad of the season kind of thing.

Yeah.

So I'm thinking it's been a while since
Fagen the winter soldier, I'm pulling

back just a little bit because PowerBroker
does get the scene with Carly at the

end, but yeah, I think it's there.

I think you're, you're, you're correct.

And referring to it as the
power broker situation.

Jude: Yeah.

Uh, cause it, cause we all
know it's Jake moving in.

It's just a matter of when I don't
think that it was as unsatisfying.

As the PowerBroker though.

I think it did.

I think you're right.

It kind of not kind of, I
think it muddied the story.

I think you're right on that part.

But in terms, I don't think it made the,
the series unsatisfying in the same way

as what they did with the PowerBroker.

Trey: Yes.

Yeah.

I can agree to that for sure.

Jude: No, you're also right in
when we think about power brokers.

Well, cause we don't know when the
power broker is going to show up again.

Trey: Oh, that's what I wanted
to, to clarify, because I

I've talked about it before.

I don't know if it's been an Intacct
or where it's popped up, but I've,

I've mentioned I'm not as limited to
limited series as much as everybody

seems to be like, okay, this is it.

We're never going to tonight.

Again, I know we're most likely
going to get more Moonlight, but

if it structurally, when you go
into developing a show, it's a.

To have that hooks for something more
when your goal is that, oh no, this is

just going to be its own kind of thing.

So the fact that that doesn't
pay off within the show itself

is, is the thing that is weird to

Jude: me.

Yeah.

So to go along with that, you
know, so you mean so interesting.

We have a lot of group texts.

Um, we, I sent a message to you and JB,
the three of us, um, that I seen it.

Um, and then out of sport, you know, Jamie
said he saw it out of spoilers for you.

We went to our own text.

I said, I liked it.

This is me to JB.

I liked it.

Uh, as far as finales go, I think they
did a really good job and notice this.

The same day I saw it like within,
like within an hour of seeing it.

Um, so I hadn't first impressions
hadn't really seen it yet.

I said, it makes me wonder if some
point, if at some point they decided

to go from one to two seasons, then
made some different editing choices.

And his response was, I think
I was thinking the same thing.

It felt reshuffled.

And it's interesting because like the in
tag, I think felt like an actual intake,

but it does just all that to say it does
make me wonder if there was a reshuffling,

Jake was going to show up and as a
commitment of switching, you know, Th

there there's some stuff of Jake that got

Trey: shuffled out, you know what,
let's go ahead and move into the

last, most important topic, which is
laters Gators, where we can discuss

in a moment, mark and Steven finally
being free of Concho, waking up in

the psych or getting done with that.

Going back to their home.

And the show ends specifically, we're
now in the post credit scene of the

Jake Lockley reveal after he's picked
up Harrow and is in the limo with

conscience, you know, earlier you were
talking about how we joked with slushie

about the future state and being Steven
and how it could potentially now be Jake.

I think it almost has to be
something that consciously knew

about because in that post credit
scene, we reveal like, oh, mark.

He truly thought that I was after Layla.

Why would I need anyone else?

He is everything I need because
somehow Jake is able to remain a

hidden identity from both of them.

So he can continue to get what
he wants while letting them

the believe that he's there.

They're free of Concho.

So I think as far as timeline goes,
It does make sense that that Jake

Lockley may have been responsible.

And honestly, at this point, Jake,
luckily may be the identity that was

popping in and out of episode one and
not necessarily mark, because a lot of

the actions in episode one were really
violent and we were led to believe

that was mark, but we now know that's
more Jake's method of operations.

Jude: Yeah.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you know what I find interesting,
you know, not just that, but it's

conscious, you clearly knew about Jake.

I wonder what kind of control you
has it cause like I'm wondering like

what triggers, cause at least at
this point, the balance they're able

to seamlessly let each personality
take over or identity and switch.

Whereas Jake seems like he
just pops in on his own.

But conscious, you had to know
that that, that Jake was there.

And so, yeah, I'm going to get my guy.

So is there, um, it makes me wonder
if contract no way to trigger Jake

coming out or, you know what I mean?

Or was he just having to be super patient
like, like, like what is the trigger

that gets Jake out and is Jake able to.

So press the other two.

Trey: I would almost have to say
yes to that for it to be in line

with doing conscious bidding.

But based on the way mark is tripped
up on the leg restraint again,

there has to be a reason they're
still restraining themselves.

I think they may know there still
some blackouts, but they haven't

attributed an identity to it.

And so, I don't know, I
can go back and forth.

Like I can say either it's conscious
being very patient and waiting for Jake

to pop up, or there's some suppression
technique because he's able to come

out without spark spark without Steven
are mark ever questioning what is

happening in the blackouts spark?

Jude: You know, it's okay.

Combine them.

That's what they do.

They're balanced.

This whole thing should be

Trey: me even in sparked.

Jude: Um, so yeah, I just, I don't know.

I'm I'm this is one, let me think
one division, we know when I'll get

into season two, maybe, but like a
season two to that concept and story.

Right,

Trey: right.

Like it wouldn't be one division
two, not that seasons or two,

but it'll be a different title.

Maybe it's the Scarlet witch,

Jude: um, Falcon, the winter
soldier even changing the name to

captain America, winter soldier.

It's clearly a season two off of that.

It's not something new Hawkeye.

I don't think we know

Trey: yet.

I would have to double-check I feel
like I read somewhere and it may

have been from the creators of.

Moon nights.

So now I don't believe them, but they
were saying something to the extent of

Hawkeyes, not getting a second season,
which I'm shocked that we didn't get a

season two announcement for both Hawkeye
I and Moonlight, which watched by the

time this episode drops that'll change.

Yeah.

I just,

Jude: I don't, anyways,
that's a whole other thing.

So I don't want to go down that
road of just like, how do you not

have a season two or a way to get
Kate Bishop back on the screen?

Um,

Trey: oh, for Hawkeye, I think we're
going to talk about moon cause for moon

night, like obviously we have Jacob.

Conscious still manipulating them,
but there's more to be discovered

because they have that moment.

We, we glossed over it, but when Layla's
talking to , she mentions her dad.

And so there's still more
history to be discovered.

Jude: So, yeah.

So it's, and the only one thinking
about it is it's just like my

excitement for what happens net
I think is, is probably the, the,

the most I've had with this show.

Yeah.

Trey: They did such a great job.

Leaving you wanting more.

Like I said, for all the, all the
issues I may have budding up against

the six hour limit of the Disney
plus shows, I still want more.

I still really enjoy these characters
and want to see them continue

Jude: well.

But, but that's the thing is
like, I wanna, you know, season

two of this and where does it go?

And not that I'm not interested
or excited for low-key, but

I'm more interested in this.

And in terms of, if we never get
another season for Falcon, the winter

soldier, but captain America, Sam
Wilson, captain America shows up again,

Bucky shows up again and elsewhere.

I would be fine with that without
them getting another show.

Um, as much as I loved Hawkeye, as
long as we're getting Kate Bishop

again, and ideally Kate Bishop in your
lane, and together, again, it doesn't

have to be a Disney plus series.

I'll take them off, you
know what I mean on a movie.

Whereas like I want
another season of midnight.

Not just that he shows up somewhere.

We've talked

Trey: about it so much that this,
the, the strength of the series is

the explorations of the characters
that the movies don't get to have.

And honestly, this may be worth revisiting
at some point, the weaknesses of the

show is the grand stakes finales that
the, the movies are good at doing.

I, I would like, I'd be excited
to see moon nights show up, but

we wouldn't get the exploration
in a movie that we would in a.

So I, 100% understand what you mean.

And there's more like, I know for
sure in that post-grad, it seemed

like I want, I want more of Concho
because despite everything we saw

this, this season, I feel like I
still, can't not his motivations.

I just want to know more about them
because whenever he's speaking to Ahmed,

there are not noble and not ours, but
he's trying to do the right thing.

Like he's trying to stop mass killing
before any crime has been committed,

but the way he treats the characters
closest to them is so vital.

And with so much vitriol, I want to
see more of how conscious you operates.

And so a seasoned focused on him and
Jake would be very worth watching for me.

Yeah.

And

Jude: that's, and that's,
I think one of the things.

And I'm going to tread lightly here,
because then I know you, you know,

we can explain to this next week or
that, but that's one of the things

I loved about this series and this
episode is it left me with that.

I wanting more of, or a
continuation of this, rather

than like I was saying earlier.

Just, just give me the characters again.

I was like, no, I want this.

Trey: Yeah.

Well, as we're here in this laters
Gators section, I think one of

the other things we can pivot over
towards is after mark and Steven

had been released from comm Shu.

They awake back in Dr.

Hearos office and.

I will speak for me because I remember the
first time I watched it, there was some

ambiguity to it, of what I was seeing.

The second time I watched it,
there was still some ambiguity.

It wasn't until the rewatch
right before we recorded that.

I got my read.

I don't know if it's the correct one,
but I'd be interested in seeing what

you think there's a shot in particular.

That that was the, the final puzzle piece
for me, where whenever we're back in

the office, we've as much as we've been
working with the reflections, the shot

of mark and Steven in the chair, we are
looking through the reflection up to him.

And I think that might be one of the
first times we've seen that in the show.

And so my read of that
scene is that version of Dr.

Harrow was within Stephen
and Mark's own mind.

And it was that it wasn't
necessarily that horrible.

The reality was manipulating them,
but it was their own mind that was

trying to put them in their own corner.

So whenever they finally have done
away with them and he's walking

away and they see the blood on
his shoes, it's the mind finally

realizing, oh, you have no power here.

And so the fact that they put us
through the reflection is what made

me finally be like, oh, I get it now.

Like that's, that's why we
believe something different.

And then that's how they're able
to break free of the limitation

of their, I don't want to say fear
of, of horror, but for simplicity,

I'll say that fear version of him.

Jude: Hi, I'm going to
have to go rewatch that.

Um, cause I wasn't sure
how to take that scene.

Um, It felt out of place in terms of,
not for the show, but like are not, hold

on, let me make sure I say this right.

It felt out of place in terms of like
the sequencing within the episode.

Yes, it jarring.

Yeah.

And it was like, so, so where
it ended up, it felt like they

were trying to do one more.

Huh?

Maybe let's mess with them one more time.

What's real.

And what's not, when I was like, okay.

It made me feel like, okay,
you've gone too far, you know?

And that scene would have worked
better sooner in the episode.

Um, does that

Trey: make sense?

Yeah, that was originally my feeling too.

I was like, okay, this, this
series is really unloved.

Shock and trying to get you
to question what's real and

what's not real, which is fine.

I think that's inherent to the comic
series from the little I know about

it, but it's the shot of looking
through the reflection up to Steven.

That really solidified me.

He's like, oh no, I like it.

It's, it's almost like
you have the action.

And this was the, the mental fight
and the thing that was kind of like,

well, Tourette shows up in it too,
but I mean, it could just be some

explanation of like both the mind
and the afterlife melding together.

So jumping in and out of,
of realities, I guess.

But I think I just like, I'm
going to settle on, this was

kind of like a mental fight.

One between the idea of HARO and
the acceptance of themselves.

And

Jude: my only issue with that is
in if HARO and Stephen slash mark

spark, if Harland spark would
have fought in the hospital.

So basically do the same
thing you did, right?

Or you cause you're the creator.

Um, if they do the same thing where it's
like, you have the Ahmed Khan, you fight

marrying each other with the other fight.

But the fight between spark and HARO
takes place in the mental institution.

So it was very clearly mental and
then physically going out with

the gods and as they, when they
come out of that, does that mean.

Um, and maybe that's even what they were
trying to do, but it just, I didn't get it

Trey: that I was gonna say, I think out
of place sequencing is the best way to

put what is in conflict with the story.

Like, even if, even if we understand
the story meeting now, it's still a

bit of a jarring moment kind of thing.

So I think, think your potential
like fix, I was trying to avoid

it, but we were putting our writer
hats on you're a potential fix, I

think would really solidify that
and make it more, uh, Congress with

the story they were telling were.

Cause I just mentioned, it feels like this
series really loves shock and trying to

make you question what's real or what's
not real, even though I finally came

to that conclusion with the, looking
through the reflection, being my compass

in that I still don't know where I
land on them, waking back up in their

apartment kind of thing, because it's.

What happened to Layla or what
happened to all those people that were

judged or they just gone, like what?

There's no bringing
them back kind of thing.

Which, I mean, that's its own rabbit.

If you get down through the rabbit
hole of consequences of a superhero

action show, that's its own thing.

But it just, because of that, that
sequencing it's like, okay, am

I supposed to believe this real?

Am I supposed to believe it's not?

Or why are they chained up again?

All of these, I guess, are
questions for the potential season

Jude: two.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's why I'm convinced that that's

Trey: happening.

And I told you, I texted you Wednesday.

I think we've already seen the
marketing switch from series

finale to season finale.

So I think,

Jude: yeah, supposedly that's
like hurt their chances.

Trey: Oh, I'm glad you brought that up.

I saw somebody say like, oh,
they're probably trying to, to

just say no, no, it's a limited
series for award ceremonies.

And then after it's like
JK, it's going to season two

Jude: in terms of what
category they put it on.

Has that ever happened?

I don't know, I never paid attention.

I never paid attention to the Emmy's.

I paid attention to the Oscars
until I realized it's like,

Trey: you know, it's so funny.

We always talk about how, whenever it
comes to finales, we're like, oh man,

we don't really know what to talk about.

Cause it's like the action
sequences and they're fine.

We made a meal out of a three minutes.

I know that that's the most fun part.

I think for us as these little sections,
towards the end of the finale where

it gives us enough to, to consider,

Jude: I wonder if we should cut out
that part of the most important topics.

Like I know

Trey: it was cool.

Anyway, this is where we thought
it would be a good writing center.

Jude: Well,

Trey: unless there's any more,
I think we can go ahead and

move into listeners first takes.

Jude: Yeah, let's see
what they have to say.

Trey: So this first one comes in from
the slushie on Twitter, a guest from

last week and she said, Well, my take
aged, like milk punch of laughing emojis.

I responded to them and I said,
listen, I still really like

their mother sarcophagus idea.

Like I, if we didn't get Jake
Lockley, I was going to go

to bat with them right there.

I was like, no, I really like her read

Jude: slushy playing the long game.

This is season two.

Trey: So we're going to have to
have slushie back on for sure.

In season two so she can defend her on it.

Yeah,

Jude: we can double down on
the Chicago, I guess mom.

Cause like, I, I, that's a good
idea and it's still there cause

we never had a very good idea.

We never officially saw
what was in that circle,

Trey: I guess.

And, and if I'm right in my read
of the mental ward, being the quote

unquote mental fight spark would
know to think about Jake, Nope.

Slushy where I'm, you know what I'm with
you, your tape did not age like milk.

You're fine.

Jude: Uh, it was just right.

There was just enough spectacle and
leftover mystery for a season two.

I hope it gets one.

Also with Sam as a new captain America,
I guess someone was applying to be

the new Falcon, uh, that was kin.

Um, my Ken's missing something.

I thought I texted you

Trey: some, I didn't get any from that.

Did you text me something for sure.

If you texted me.

Jude: Oh,

Trey: Ken's mysterious.

Whereabouts remains for the next deficit.

Jude: I see.

I thought, I thought you were just
trolling me and leaving it off.

Yeah, because it says the scene
where Layla saves the people from the

van made me think of the truck from
Falcon, the winter soldier and of tray.

And he wasn't the only
one I thought of it too.

Oh, that's funny.

And of course the last, the other
thing he said, he did find it.

Interesting.

This is more straight thought, I guess,
but I'm not going to just put it here.

So I brought it up and the recap
portion of moon night, they kind of

made Steven look like a klutz because
he says something like, if he can do

it, so can I, and then when he lunges
at one of them, he falls over the boat.

So like they cut the part where he fought.

Trey: Yeah.

That was weird.

If I'm not mistaken, I think
it was a different tape.

Probably

Jude: so,

Trey: so that's so funny

Jude: to my photos.

I have the screenshot of the text
that I was gonna text it to you.

Oh, I know.

I added it to the clicker.

Trey: Oh, okay.

That's what we did is
go and look at that next

Jude: time I tried, I tried to use our,
our nice project management planning

tool and yeah, I should just text you.

Trey: Well, it was your first time.

So a heads up and being like,
Hey, I'm going to start putting

these there be a good call.

Oh man.

Well, this next one comes in from
Ben dot Maddie over on Instagram.

And it reads, that is how you do a finale.

Layla is so cool with our new costume.

I'm going to need more of her.

Yup.

I think that's, I think Layla
is, is the star of this episode

in terms of like excitement.

Yeah.

MVP.

It's so funny.

We always joke how we're we
want to award in VP per episode.

And we always forget until the finale,

Jude: but I mean, uh,
not just the show, Layla.

The series was fantastic,
but more, yeah, more Layla.

It looks like

Trey: we just got one on Twitter.

This one comes in from fashion, Jimmy and
it reads, I needed a little processing

time, but I really liked the finale.

I hope that we get more of the show and.

Yeah.

And that seems to fit in line with
what we've been talking about.

Like liked it overall, some qualms,
but wouldn't, wouldn't be upset

with more from a season two.

So yeah, that's going to do
it for the listeners first

takes again, thank you so much.

Not only in this episode, but the
entire season for reaching out

whenever we put the call out on
social media, uh, it's always fun to

get, to hear what you all thought of
the episode, but of course, that is

going to leave us for final thoughts.

So Jude predictions, stray thoughts,
or things to consider moving forward

Jude: prediction.

We will get a season two at some point,
uh, you know what I'm really, really

excited, uh, to see the, the assembled
and something I really want to think

about was, and I don't remember if I
heard this somewhere or read it or both.

The website, like I actually read
it, um, anyways, uh, not having a

larger tie to the MCU, you know,
any kind of cameos and things like

that outside of the astral plane.

Okay.

But the, what we, people, what we've grown
to expect, the character cameos and stuff

like that, did that make this better?

Where that feeling of
it's own unique thing.

And I, I don't remember if I was talking
to somebody or read it somewhere, but,

but that the, the answer was, yes.

Um, so that's something I'm
going to probably have to thought

I'll have to spend some time

Trey: with.

I definitely want to think about that.

And I think that might be something
well worth discussing next week

on the wrap-up of Sabre JB.

That is, I think that's a very
good thing to consider going into.

So the future of Moonlight, uh,
my final thought, or I guess

my two prediction I'm with you.

I would be shocked if by the
end of the month, we don't get a

season two confirmation because I
remember Loki's was fairly quickly

confirmed, like the ending in tag.

So yeah, I feel comfortable
putting it within the end of may.

We will see that Moonlight is going
to get SQL thinking to consider.

I, I, I can't wait until
we see Layla again.

I don't know where that'll
be, where she'll pop up, but

I'm very excited for that.

Moving forward.

Jude: I'm going to disagree
with you on hold on real quick

Trey: while you're looking at
whatever you're looking up.

My reasoning being assembled documentaries
usually come a week to three weeks after.

And I can't imagine the assemble Docker
documentary, not mentioning something

about going into a second season.

Jude: Th the only thing that, and what
I was looking up is the dates is it

feels like this is something that they
will either do or announce at like San

Diego Comic-Con in July, especially if
it's going to be in person, you know?

Cause it feels like, you know, I think
they did virtual the past two years.

Definitely the COVID year, I think
last year was virtual as well.

So if they get to go back in person,
if I'm correct on that, it feels like

a San Diego comic con thing or in
September at the D 23 expo, you know?

So that, that's the only reason why I
wouldn't say may is, is I think that

I think they would wait, let have
multi-verse and madness habits run.

Let Ms.

Marvel have.

For Thor, 11 thunder and then save
it for a big expo con announcement.

Trey: Okay.

Well, it looks like we got ourselves
a bet here in this episode, if it

happens before may or if they save
it for San Diego or a convention

Jude: and you know what hit us up
on social media, let us know when

you think, or we can expect this

Trey: announcement.

Well, speaking of social media,
if you want to reach us, you can

always reach us at MC need to know
both on Twitter and Instagram.

It's a great way to keep up with
us and the things that we're doing

as well as help shape the show.

Jude: And between that time.

Well, if you, well, we won't
have listened to first takes.

We can still get your voice on.

Be sure to scroll down to the
bottom, check out the phone

number, leave a voicemail.

Um, so we can get your
thoughts on the MCU moon night.

Something, what you're excited
about coming up on the show.

Of course, click on the link, join
the discord when you're there, make

sure you click on the role of sign
and click on the emoji so you can

have access to spoiler channels.

The best thing you can do for
us is to continue to expand our

universe by sharing with a friend.

Trey: Yeah.

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for
the use of our theme song, which is

his rendition of the Avengers theme.

He can find more of his work in
a SoundCloud, which is linked

in the show notes as well.

Well, that's going to do it.

Thank you so much for listening and Jude.

Thank you so much for
doing this letter's Gators.

We'll see you all next week.

Jude: I am recording.

Yeah.

Recording to

Trey: get sucked up.

Jude: 1, 2, 3.

Trey: Andy's drinking.

So we were just talking about, you know,
just some pre recording, planning to how

we were going to let the episode flow.

And I mentioned I was going to
do two takes because we have a

potential, uh, last minute call.

What were you just telling me, dude?

Jude: Well, the, the last minute
call was, was whether or not on the

four topics or three topics, right.

And the three or three most important
topics are foremost important topics.

And the other day, when you made
the switch and you said, I'm gonna

take a page out of your book.

Cause I liked what you did and
you're going to read them out.

The only reason why I did that
when TJ was on is in the moment

I thought that's what you did.

So I did a kind of like a panic of
like, oh, what do I do right here?

Okay.

I think I read these, like, that's
what it was going through my mind.

Trey: That's so funny because I remember
when I finally listened to it that Monday,

I was like, oh, that's a really good idea.

I'm going to say, I don't know why.

I never thought to just read out what
people can expect in this episode.

So we somehow came up with a great idea
independently of each other, but together

Jude: that's funny how it works, right.