Trey: hello.

And welcome back to
another episode of MCU.

Need to know a podcast dedicated to
the Marvel cinematic universe and

the everything you need to know.

I'm Trey,

Jude: I'm Jude, how you doing Trey?

I

Trey: am super excited, man.

New season new things to geek out about.

Jude: Yes, it feels so good.

It feels like it's been forever.

It

Trey: had does.

And it doesn't at the same time.

Like I think we, I think we tease
this out a little bit of, I was

so looking forward to miss Marvel.

Not only because.

It is one of the few comics I am
somewhat familiar with, but after no

home into moon night into multi-verse
of madness, like everything was so

heavy on the topics that the MCU was
dealing with, that this feels like such

a breath of fresh air that it was like,
yeah, like here's the side of the MCU.

I felt like we haven't seen in a while.

Oh yeah.

Jude: Yeah.

So, okay.

So let me ask you that.

What were, what was that like?

You read the comic.

Trey: So what was the
experience of watching this?

Cause that's different for you?

It is different.

So there are moments where it's
like, oh, I remember that frame.

Like that was cool to see that
come to life in the live action.

And now I find myself in a very
interesting position because we've

always talked about how with this pod.

We're MCU first.

So I've always been tried, like I've never
been able to have to tip toe that line

of like, oh, what's telling too much.

What do I know from the comics?

Because there was definitely something
I saw in the very beginning that

I was like, I know what that is.

Nice.

So we might even have to do
like a post post in tag where

it's just like, all right.

If you've made it this far,
we're going to talk about

Jude: that's funny, but yeah,
it's, uh, it's different.

It's different.

What are

Trey: you?

I mean, cause you you're
pretty familiar with this.

You're the one who got me into Ms.

Marvel.

What's it been like for

Jude: you?

I spoiler texted you and TK.

Just OMG.

I love it.

Like my friend, Sean texted me this.

It was like the perfect blend of like.

Into the spider verse that I'm
going to stop there because

we are in the spoilers on yet.

Um, I think like visuals that they
were able to bring into a live action

of say that that was just phenomenal.

And it just felt like I was, it gave
me that feeling again of the comic

coming to life in live action, which was

Trey: great, man.

I love how excited we ever were.

Pretty much already in the priests

Jude: boiler.

No, like I, I just, I can't
tell you how much I love this.

Trey: Well, you know what, let's
just, let's complete lean to it.

Preschooler thoughts, you know, I'm glad
you brought up into the spider verse.

That is definitely a feeling I'm
getting invoked here with this show.

Uh, two other ones that come to
mind are Mitchell's versus the

machines I've talked about it before.

I think even when we reacted
to the trailer for Ms.

Marvel, that sh that animated
series had a lot of the same

spider verse visual influences.

And the other one that it reminds me of
somewhat without, without getting too

much into details, but just kind of.

Family dynamic is turning
red, the latest Pixar film.

So there there's a lot of great
work that this show is doing.

And from frame one, I think
it is incredibly confident.

The inventiveness of the weight is
communicating that daydreamy feel

with the art coming to life around
her and building to some of the ways

that it depicts digital communication.

If they can keep up this creative
spirit for the next five episodes, we

are truly in for something special.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

Cause we talk about this on a lot
of Daredevil when we first got

started, but just how early on,
you know, um, director showrunner.

Start teaching us the vocabulary.

So we see how things work and it, and
so we know that, and then they're able

to do something else with it because
they've taught us, this is how visually

we're going to sh uh, show this.

So you're right.

If they keep that up and that's what
they're doing here, like seeing what they

ramped us up to is going to be really,

Trey: really cool.

Yeah.

I mean, cause even in episode
one, we'll get into it.

Once we get into the spoiler zone,
it's it is very educational in the

way that it just keeps moving forward
with that language, like you said.

Yeah.

Jude: I just, my preschooler
thought a, oh my gosh, I got texted.

I loved it, man.

I got all kinds of just thoughts.

So I'm going to go with this one.

I'm just going to double down
on the multi-verse of madness.

Um, finding just, I think that's the
other thing that I loved that I loved.

He said it was just.

Like, ah, this is what the MCU should
be, you know, uh, kind of feel like

aesthetically and stylistically
and, you know, multi-verse and

madness was like George Lucas.

Pre-call George Lucas, you
know, playing with CGI for

the first time, like on speed.

And that's what Sam Raimi did.

And it just wasn't enjoyable.

But like this gets back to what the MCU
was really good at, which is actually

having good level of characters,
a good story, whether it's simple.

They know the story.

It's a good one.

They're going to tell it right.

And able to incorporate all the visuals
and all of that style that helps tell

the story and not overpower it, you know?

And so it's truly getting back
to what, what I hope for and

expect out of MCU content.

So the

Trey: heart is clearly on
this area and it's all the

Jude: better for it.

Well, that's the other thing is that
you can tell that in this, if they keep

it up, like the don't get me wrong.

Like I agree with Elizabeth
Olson, like a lot of talented.

People work on these things.

And I am a no way like, could go in
and do better than what the people did.

The multi-verse madness, right?

Like I, there's a reason I
don't direct and do computer

animation and all that stuff.

Right.

Trey: Our running joke.

There's a reason we're doing the play

Jude: and I'm fully aware of that.

But like in this episode, you can
really see it come across of like how

much that they just love the content.

And I didn't, and for the most part,
everything I see MCU, you get that feeling

of there's this love and care for the
content and wanting to do right by it.

I'm going to bag on multiple
more management, more time.

You don't get that feeling in there.

I mean, you feel like it's Sam Raimi
going to play with, oh, I get to

play with these cool toys, you know,
without really, I mean, come on.

He didn't finish watching
wander vision and didn't want

to try to finish the story.

Like, like, you know,
That's the other thing.

He was just, I was so in
love with it from them.

Trey: Well, uh, I think that's going to
put a bow on our priest boiler thought.

So, you know, we were so excited.

We immediately jumped to this
section, but for anybody who may be

new listeners who are tuning in for
the first time for our show, we're

going to be covering this series.

Week-to-week, uh, it launches the Monday
after the episode premieres on Wednesday.

Uh, we will have pre spoiler thought.

So if you haven't seen the episode yet,
this will be a chance for you to hear

what we thought of the episode without
getting into spoilers, followed by the

spoiler zone, where we're gonna be talking
about the episode into the most important

topics with all spoilers revealed.

So like I said, you're
gonna hear an audio cue.

And on the other side, it'll be
fair game for all spoilers in

the MCU, except multi-verse of
madness, because that has not hit.

We'll see you on the other side

and we're back.

All right.

So we've got three most important
topics that we're going to break down

this episode into starting with the
daydreamer, the family, and the con.

So the first, most important topic
is going to be the section for

us to really dive into common.

Her aspirations, her creativity,
as well as the school life that we

find her in throughout this episode.

So starting with you, Jude,
where would you like to start

within the daydreamer section?

The

Jude: visuals?

I loved it.

The, so I'll start with this, talking
about the visuals and I'm going to

say it with the daydream resection.

I'm going to jump around
the entire episode.

Um, but focusing on the
daydreaming visuals, right?

So like she's riding in the car and
parents are talking and she looks over

and then sees captain Marvel, right.

Or the, the plan.

Doodling it in her book, but
you also know you're seeing her

imagination, you know, will come alive.

And that right there just was fantastic.

Um, I felt like they really captured that
age well that the 16 year old, you know?

Um, and so that was, and especially
in, I don't think Kamala Khan is

this, but this is what I got from it.

I was like, yes, kids are gonna watch
this 16, 15, 16, 17 year olds are

gonna watch this and be like, yes.

See, when I tell you I have
ADHD, this is what's happening.

You know?

I mean, just like having tried the
conversation with the counselor and

you're just like, yeah, I got nothing
and you're just all over the place.

Um,

Trey: well, I mean, cause like
he even makes that comment.

He's like comma, we literally just
started talking and he would already

seen how she had broke into the daydream.

Jude: Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

I remember when I was in elementary
school, I would go, I would daydream

and my teachers would take my
chair from me and make me stand

up to keep you from daydreaming.

You know,

Trey: let's try ostracizing.

You let's see if that works.

Jude: It was, it was through the
early eighties, you know, they, they,

they did what they thought was best

Trey: and look at us now

Jude: I was going to make it.

I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to do.

I was going to make a joke and then
I thought twice about it, but yeah.

So like, but yeah, no.

So I, so I, I completely identified,
you know, cause like I was that

kid that daydream, that imagined
like I got to interact with.

Um, the superheroes and whatever that
was for me at the time, you know?

Um, and so that's why I felt
like they captured it really

Trey: well.

100%.

I mean, even from, like I said,
frame one, this show is so

confident because you were getting.

Not only her creativity, her
aspirations, but you are, we are teasing

out how she is able to pick that.

Cause that's a video that she
theoretically made for her YouTube

Jude: channel.

You know, that YouTube channel exists.

Right.

I still got a deer.

My first watch looked it up and hit.

Trey: It's locked baby productions, right?

Yeah.

Which is extra funny to me because
I used to have a joke whenever I was

first getting into streaming, like
every kid who ever got into like content

creating stuff, their name was always
something, something productions.

And it makes me laugh so much to
see that it carried over into this

Jude: show.

It brings, it brings credibility.

Right?

So entertain entertainment productions.

Trey: I'm trying to think if I reveal
this, if this would be too embarrassing.

I remember the first
attempt at contact creating.

I think mine was called light came
out of productions because like,

that was, I was like 12, I think.

And I think Kaimana
means burned in Spanish.

And that was at a phase where
me and my friend was like,

oh, burn dude, you just got.

Jude: Well, all of a sudden have
that, try to imagine being some

kind of creative at some point or
something, productions, entertainment,

a company, trying to be clever,

Trey: but yeah, I loved it
because you see the talent there.

You see.

The way she has admiration and
her point of view of the events of

game, which given that this is the
civilian perspective, what happened,

it makes sense that you will see
what becomes most important to her.

And I like how they're able to
establish that affection for Carol

Danvers, because that plays so much
of an important role and to how she

shapes herself into the superhero.

And I think I was, I don't know if
I'm fully ready to say this yet,

but I feel like phase four, we've
been talking a lot more about the

civilian perspective of the MC.

And it's feeling like it was all leading
to this because when you have that

admiration that we see from Camila and
then see it take form and things like

we'll talk about later with the vendors
con I, I don't know if you can get

this without the base that came before.

And so it's really cool how much
they were able to plant that seed

for Comicon here with that opening

Jude: visualize.

Well, no, for me, I guess what's going to
be really, I mean, on top of all of that,

what's going to be really interesting is
it's very similar to our, this character

Kamala Khan and then admiration, you
know, is very similar to Kate Bishop.

And I was wondering like, okay,
so how are they going to do this?

Are they just rehashing the story?

Well, you know, Huck, I was in it.

I don't expect Brie Larson
to make an appearance.

It's possible only because.

You know, they're, they're
shooting the marvels, right.

And she's in this and, and, and all that.

So it's possible you can drag in
like a quick cameo or a scene.

I don't anticipate that happening.

And I kind of hope it doesn't cause
I, I, I like, I want to see the whole

series with that separation with
something like this, you know, they have

to do to, I don't wanna say destroy,
but like tear down that admiration,

you know, like that reality check.

And so I'm curious to what they're
going to do with this character.

What's going to be that growth moment.

If that makes sense.

Without having captain Marvel there, the
way Hawkeye was there for Kate Bishop,

Trey: what you're laying out
on, why you don't want it?

There reminds me of the same
reasons they ultimately cut Dr.

Strange from one division because it takes
away from the story being about Wanda.

And if you bring in Carol
Danvers, yes, that'd be cool.

It makes sense.

But you, you want to have Comicon
have that first step on our own.

Um, I wouldn't, I think I could see
potentially a tease, but I I'm on that

limb with you of like, no, let's just
focus on getting her story told first.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, but it feels like

Jude: that's what they're doing.

And also I was gonna say it's
a very different age group.

Kamala Khan is 16, right?

There's no doubt about it.

No question on age where clearly
Kate Bishop is older college,

Trey: 22,

Jude: 23, somewhere there.

Um, so it is a very that's.

The other thing is it is a very
different, um, she's a kid, you

know, um, back to Fred, Daniel, and I
were talking about this of like, she

did the driving test and she's 16.

So.

I don't remember them giving a date
like a time of year, fall, winter,

spring, or something like that.

And the only way I bring that up is
cause typically sophomore year you're

15 have a 16 year old birthday.

Right.

And get your driver's license, maybe
at some point take the driver's test.

Or you are 16 turned 17
as a junior, you know?

So, so this would have to be
either like the fall of her junior

year, spring, sophomore year.

Um, and not that it has to have an exact
date, you know, but that is clearly

a different, like there's, I, I feel
safe to say this, unlike in Hawkeye

episode, when there was a debate of
like, is Kate Bishop a kid like, oh,

like, like Clint was saying, I don't
think there's any debate here with

Kamala Khan when she did kid things.

That was the other thing.

She did kid things.

Trey: Okay.

So I w I, I didn't know
how I was supposed to.

Did she fail that driving test on purpose?

Because like she gunned it and like,
I can't imagine anyone, like, I don't

think her intention was to wreck
the car, but that was such a, and

I don't mean this super majority.

Like, it was just such an immature move
of like the way she'd slammed on the gas,

Jude: the instructor,

Trey: the what was the it,
the instructor was very calm.

Look,

Jude: here's the thing I'm with you
have this whole, like, I mean, if I'm

going to equate it to a test and I
see what, like Kamala did, you know,

and that's a driving status and like
you're going to study for a test.

Like typically it's a good idea
that, like, I know a test is coming

and I'm going to study a little
bit each day over a number of days.

So I have that practice
and I, and I get it right.

Rather than do a whole lot of
studying and like the day before.

Right.

Cause that's just,
that's just never works.

And yet I tried, it feels like she
the same here, but it feels like

she tried to do a whole lot of
studying the night before and just

like, like in, in nerves and stuff,
but here's why I blamed the driver.

So the car was.

Parked right behind her.

He noticed the car wasn't on.

So it was like, he, I guess
he didn't mention, Hey,

you're in reverse on purpose.

I mean, I guess, because you want
to see a, you make a mistake or not,

but your car is right behind her.

Like, you're going to say something.

It's like, Hey, you're in reverse.

My car is right there.

And he just sat there quiet,
like that's on you, man.

Yeah.

Trey: Cause when you said like she,
she did kid things, that was the first

thing that popped to mind because it
was like, oh, is she purposely failing?

Cause she's nervous about having
to make decisions for her.

But yet her original plans all
involved around her having her

license to sneak out to vendors con.

So it was just, I don't know.

It, not that it's all nitpicky.

I was just wondering

Jude: how, yeah, I think, I
think that captured it well.

Um, because, so like my third
watch, um, I loved this episode.

I've seen it three times to, uh, to, so I,
I watched it today and uh, my wife watched

it with me and oh, what scene was it?

I think it was after the w when Kamala
asked her mom and it didn't go well,

and she, you know, kind of, well,
I'm, that's not like I'm gonna go do

cocaine, you know, and had that line.

And for some reason we had to pause it.

Oh.

Because our microwave messes with the
wifi and for some reason we're going

to warm something up Swain deposit.

And so

Trey: it seems like

Jude: you need a Zuzu.

I know.

Right.

Um, you know, I said something,
I was like, I just feel

like it's captured so well.

I was like, no, at that age she
would have tried, she would have,

she wouldn't have just accepted it.

She would have tried to do
something more sneaky and I'm

like, oh, just wait for the plane.

But I, but I think that's also part
of it is like, cause my wife again,

teaching high schoolers, like no, the
high schoolers are going to try to do

something a little bit more sneaky.

They're not going to give up on just that.

Um, you know, and we both talked about.

She's doing kid things, but she's not bad.

She's a good kid.

She's just doing kid things.

And that's the other
thing that captures it.

So, well, I mean, as a parent and my
oldest might hear this episode at some

point, the whole idea of like having the
very teenager young teenager thing to do.

Um, unfortunately some adults do this
too, but I have in my mind what I want.

Right.

And I can't get it exactly.

Like I want it.

And then her parents or somebody comes
up and I'm going to meet you where

you're at, I'm going to meet you halfway.

Her dad colored himself green, not even on
the day of that's going a little further

than meet you halfway at her reaction.

It was like unbelievably accurate
to the typical teen of just

like, no, no, you're my parent.

That's embarrassing.

And I can't wear this
and I want it this way.

I'm not going to say it's the
appropriate reaction, but I can't say

I wouldn't have had the same reaction
that I would not have at that age

and be like, oh, that's so sweet.

No, was I don't go with my parents
and like, you know what I mean?

And so it's an

Trey: understandable,

Jude: and she's a good kid.

So like, she realizes, it's like, oh,

Trey: I'm gonna follow you out on a limb.

Cause that I had that saved
for the family section.

But I want to, I want to go here
because I've got two things.

Sorry, I just,

Jude: I just couldn't go.

And I just loved Kamala so much.

Trey: I think you and I are both
head over heels for this episode.

It's most likely we're just going to
be all over the place, but I felt so

bad for the dad because you're right.

He tried to meet her halfway.

You don't paint yourself
green for nothing.

He did that because he
clearly loves Camila.

And so Kamala.

So whenever she has the outbursts,
you can see he's fighting back tears.

I've talked about it with.

Diehard Steelers fan.

I have had my face paint while
the Steelers lost the Superbowl.

And there's nothing worse than feeling
so sad and having to remove face paint.

Oh my God.

So that was the first thing I thought.

Yeah.

But the other, the other thing I wanted to
talk about is, cause we're talking about

Kamala, we're talking about her family.

She's not a bad kid.

What it is is, and what
that opening sequence.

So brilliantly sets up is we're seeing the
two tensions of her life of wanting to be

who she is, and also trying to live within
the expectations of her family and their.

And the thing that was just brilliant
filmmaking on this show's part is

Kamala has so much pride in this captain
Marvel costume that she's been making.

And one of the things that her mom
refuses about a vendor's con is that

you're not going to go out there
wearing those skin tight suits.

So the next day, whenever she's looking
in the mirror from the advice of the

counselor is like, you need to go home and
look in the mirror and see who you are.

She is no longer feeling per cell from the
captain Marvel costume that she's put in.

She tries to add in that sash, which has
her own little bit of personalization.

And that's when her
parents come into the room.

And so after the refusal of them
meeting her halfway and they have that

heartbreaking scene, the camera pulls
back as the family has left and Kamel

is just sitting on the bed and the
doorway frames as though it's like a

mirrorless mirror, And so she's left
without not feeling like not feeling

connected to the fandom that she had
not feeling connected to her family.

And it's just so heartbreaking
to see that because she can't

reconcile those two tensions.

It's, it's, it's hard.

Like you feel for Camila in that

Jude: moment and to go with
what you're saying there, right.

That is especially because
I can recall as a good kid.

Right.

And that's such a tough balance, you know?

Um, and I can identify very easily with
the parents there and this wanting to

protect and, um, and, and seeing that
and, and making a decision, what you

think or feel is best for them, you know?

And, and then there's this weird
dynamic between parent and child

of like any, see it sometimes.

And you hear sometimes it's
like, no, you need to respect me.

You need to fear me, you know,
and, and that kind of stuff.

And it's like, I don't want my
kids or my students to like,

do something out of fear.

Ultimately, I want him to do
it out of love and respect.

You know, when we try with our own
kids of like, Hey, here's our rules

and we make these rules because we
believe this is what's best for you.

And I know you don't always like
it and that's fine, but just

know we're not trying to be me.

You know?

So, and, and so in that sense, like,
I, I can, I can identify with it and

you know, but it's hard to try to
emphasize of like, with them as like,

so our expectation is you following
the rules, whether you like it or not,

not because we said so, but because of.

The respect you have
for us as our parents.

Right.

Um, and if you want to have a
conversation about it, we can, right.

Which is much different than you
just yelling at me and stuff.

So we try to do that the best we can.

And what's really difficult is like
remembering that my kid is their

own autonomous individual, that
they just, they just are, they're

going to have their own choices.

And at some point I gotta be
comfortable with that, you know?

Um, and that's hard for a parent.

You're seeing that.

They're right.

And, and it's hard.

And I, and, and when you have a good
kid, it's hard for the kid, right?

Like, cause I love my parents.

Um, you have cultural.

Factors at play.

You have religious factors at play of
what is that dynamic and what's the

expectations are, but you also want
to be, you, you know, when you're

trying to figure out who you are and
the subtlety that they do with it.

Go ahead.

You have your thoughts,
then I'll come back to that.

Trey: Well, I was going to
say what they do that I think.

Keeping it from being like,
cause you know, we talked

about Kamala is a good kid.

Her family is not a bad family.

Either.

They humanize the mom in a way that I
think keeps her from being just this

overtly mean character who doesn't
want Kamala to do these things.

They had that scene where they go on
those wedding errands and they're trying

on the clothes and they're in the dresser
says that the dress is too short and

her mom's like, no, it's not, it's fine.

And then that friend comes in and makes
the same comment and Kamala's, mom's

like, oh yeah, you're too short for it.

So that you're getting that sense of.

Peer pressure that her mom is
also feeling from just other

people within that community.

And I think pairing that with the
line, I come from a long line of

fantasizing unrealistic daydreamers
the mom is projecting something

onto Kamala that Kamala is unfairly
being held to, if that makes sense.

So you have these two SPTlog characters
that are trying to find a common ground

and it's it humanizes them both so that
none of them feel thinly villainous.

Jude: And as I meant to say this,
any parent or person in general

should be like nodding their head.

As I say this, because I guarantee
you everyone's experienced.

Where it's like your parent lets you
do something and I've experienced

it, both sides where it's like
I've been allowed to do something.

Right.

And then I wasn't allowed, but
then I've also been the parent

who allowed, but the didn't allow.

And so it's like you allow your kid or
you are allowed to do something and then

the same situation comes up, but it's in
front of other parents and you say no.

And their response to you is like, Are
you a response back to your parents?

Like you let me watch
that movie the other day.

And let's say, if it's not properly record
movies, like we just watched it together

a week ago, something along those lines.

And they're like, you know,
and the two adults look at

each other, but you're right.

Like that, that played out perfectly.

You know, it's like, I'm here with my kid.

Now I have that peer pressure of wanting
to be a good parent, wanting to look

like you can parent in front of others.

Very real for some parents and um, in
various ways and yeah, so you're right.

Like that, the way they were
able to capture that, you know,

Trey: and it plays later too, again,
in that same scene where she's

asking for permission to go to a
Pinterest con, I think she says

something like you don't trust me.

And her father was like, we trust you.

And then I was like, I don't know.

And then he goes, we do.

And she goes, no, I don't.

Because you can see that there's
something there that the mom

needs to reconcile with too.

So they're doing that.

The nucleus of this family is so
earnestly written and realized that

I think that's what has me head
over heels for this first episode.

Jude: And that scene was perfect.

That scene and that
interaction was perfection.

Okay.

So let me ask you, what's worse.

The dad response of
like, no, we trust you.

We just don't trust anyone else.

Or the mom just being honest.

No, I don't trust you because they're
essentially saying the same thing,

but the dad's trying to veil it.

So which, which one's worse has

Trey: better marketing.

Jude: Yeah.

Right.

Trey: I think that it's a coin flip
because if I, if I heard the dad

version, I'll be like, I know that's.

But if I heard the MA's version,
it'd be like, oh, that hurts.

And so it's like, you're
either way you're lying to me.

I'll go, I'll go with
the, the dad ones wars.

Cause at least mom's being honest.

So.

Jude: So, yeah, that's I'm with you.

I think the dad one's worse
actually, but I I've done it.

Interesting.

Uh, no, it's what makes that perfection
is the dynamics of I'm going to I'm a

little bit out of my element and then
I'm not, but there is this element of.

Well, seeing that relationship between
the mom and daughter, and just now I

don't trust you, which I think is a
perfectly valid finding valid response.

Cause there's times where
it's like as a parent.

No, I do not trust you.

You have not shown me the ability to
make a wise choice in this situation.

You know, whether your people are good or
bad, but there's also this dynamic with

the father daughter relationship where
it's just like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

You know, and, and, you know,
follow it up with the misspeak.

Well, you're not normal, but like
in his head it's, you're special.

Right.

But like I do that.

I even do it myself.

I'll misspeak, you know, like
I'm trying to build up and all

your special in all of this.

And it's just like, when I miss say
something, you know, and then it's

like, you know, um, be a hundred
percent honest, the feeling of special.

And he that even say,
no, no you're special.

That's that.

Bad as well.

You shouldn't say that, um, as a
parent, but anyways, you know, it's,

it's better to say things like, no, you
know, you know, you're, you're a hard

worker and you're in like the habits
she wants to revert, you know, reinforce

you, you praise those, um, not easy
to do, but that's what you should do.

Um, but yeah, I loved it.

That was such perfection,
that interaction there.

So good.

Trey: So we started off
in the daydreamer section.

We've kind of blended into the family as
well as tightly written as this family is.

I think it makes sense that we would
kind of carry over between these two

conversations, but I want to switch
over to Bruno because I think that

is another wonderfully realized
interaction between Kamala and

Bruno, because it feels so authentic.

I think everything they're doing
with the high school setting and

those kids feels authentic because.

There is this feeling that you're
getting that, that Kamala feels like

an outsider, but none of it feels
like the stereotypical, like bullying.

It's just a level of indifference that
I've feel like as within those kids.

And it takes form in the way that they're
trying to figure out what their next

plans are to getting to a vendor's gone.

And they're like, well, maybe we
can ask Zoe's mom to drive us.

And the thing they say is, no, she
hasn't been the same ever since she

got a hundred thousand followers.

So there's this, this indifference and
sincerity that they're dealing with

within the school setting that feels
authentic and to have Bruno be the

best friend that he is through 100%
sincerity for the way that he cares

about Kamala, I think is just amazing.

Even from the get-go.

The comment that she gets on
the video it's from Bruno.

He's like, whoa, who made this?

This is good.

So from the very first scene you
were seeing how sincere and kind and

caring he is, which is the antidote
for the indifferent world that Kamala

has found herself in right now.

Yeah.

Jude: Well, and that's,
and that's the thing.

Kids just want to go to school
and feel safe and have a place.

And I'm not even trying to say
anything like, Hey, you know, from,

from Bruckheimer recording, you
know, I brought up the safe, right.

Mass shootings and stuff were not
far removed from you've already got a

number of them, but just in a generic,
like take that out of the equation.

They just, even the kids that
don't do their work, they

just want to be in a place.

They feel comfortable.

It can be themselves
with friends, you know?

And again, go to the accuracy of the show
that what you normally see in bullying,

you know, um, I think is over the
top, you know, now don't get me wrong.

I think bullying and that
fashion can and does still have.

Right.

But you do see a lot of it coming out.

In that, the feeling of isolation and
all that stuff, not in the, the overt

bullying, you know, and while that
happens, but there is that indifference

there where it's just like, well, even
the, the one teacher from the coach, maybe

from the Dodge ball, not getting the name.

Right.

You know, so like chameleon.

Yeah.

And so like the, the adults not
taking the time to get the name right.

Or, um, except that indifference of like,
this is this person's locker and you're

not going to get out of the way, you know?

And, um, and it's, and it's not a
direct bullying, but it's clearly,

we're better than you, you know?

Um, and it just like it
and you see it, it happens

Trey: the only, the only caveat I would
add to the bullying there is that scene

where she gets the basketball to the.

Oh, yeah, but that, that outside
of that, the rest of it really

Jude: does feel like where

Trey: it actually hits her.

And she has that where she has
to put the ice pack on which

sequence that stood out to me.

I don't know why that, that
was kind of randomly in there

in between her being told no.

And then her having the plan to go to
the Avengers con, but for the rest of

it, it really did feel like this level of
indifference and the way they're working.

Social media and the creative process of
it, of like her posting YouTube videos.

That's what's, that's why the
indifferent stood out to me.

Is that trying to find meaning in
your passions and the way that it's

Jude: received.

Yeah.

And see, what I loved about that part
was, you know, her friends stood up

for, Hey, you did that on purpose.

No, I didn't.

But it was also illustrating of like,
I don't want to say we all have been

through it, um, because we haven't,
but it illustrates the struggles some

kids have when they're forced to go
out there and do PE you know, and.

They're clearly not athletic, you know,
and it's like, they're doing their best.

They're wouldn't have chose this anyways.

Especially with that age group talking
about that high school, you know,

and it's like, why are we doing this?

You know?

And so, and so that's the other thing,
which again, hidden the corner, which

again, reinforces that, that you're
different, you know, for, for those

kids, you know, that, that bothers me.

I don't understand why we
call it physical education.

Like when I'm younger, I don't care.

I'm going to go out and drive and play
because for kids, but as you get older,

it's like, no, actually teach me something
about physical education, please.

Don't just let me go play
Dodge ball for an hour.

You know, I'm like,
no, teach me something.

Actually give me a recess.

Don't hide my recess into a class,
but that's me stepping away from

my sandbox of education in school.

Trey: I do want to highlight.

About the visual creativity, the way
the daydreaming sequences come to life.

We talked about in the priest of the
thoughts, how they spent so much time at

the beginning of the episode, educating us
on that and that it eventually leveled up.

One of the ways that it leveled up is
eventually those daydream sequences

coming to life became the visual
depiction of text messaging conversations

with between Bruno in, uh, Kamala.

And to have that sincere moment
where her brother Amir comes in.

Because up until that point, after she's
been told, no she's in her bedroom.

The brother comes in and tries
to smooth things out up until

that point, they've had a very
sibling antagonistic relationship.

It's not necessarily like, mean
they're just at each other's.

They know each other's like sore
spots and how to pick at them.

And I thought that felt real.

So when he came in there to like, you
know what, I'll talk to mom and dad, he

leaves and her having to relay what has
happened to Bruno takes form in the stars.

I love that.

Like it kindled that.

Okay.

She hasn't given up on it yet, like that.

That empathy from her brother was
able to keep that dream alive, even

though it was a confirmation that
it wasn't happening, she was still

like, the wheels were still turning.

So I love the visual depiction

Jude: of the stars.

Yeah.

Like, like again, that's and
that's what that's, the other

thing is, is like for a kid.

And again, I just growing
up, I was a day treatment.

Imagine your imagination and stuff.

And it's like, like visually it gives
us a sense of what's in her head and,

you know, and all of those things.

But it also like, you know, I willing
to bet like Kamala Khan, that's the

way she thinks, you know, it's like
one of those things, when you think,

are you thinking in words or pictures?

Like, like I, like, I think
we're truly getting to see

what's happening in her head.

It's not just a unique visual
for the audience, you know,

Trey: even to the point where
the, the actors depicting it in

real life, comma, you're the best.

And they're all dancing.

The background.

We know that's like her daydream
reality, even though it's not animated.

So they're blending it
back and forth to, yeah,

Jude: it's so good though.

I had one issue with that scene one, the

Trey: one where they're at the
dinner table, like praising her as

she finds an excuse to leave the

Jude: brother coming in and
having the conversation.

Um, and this is a me thing I didn't like.

When he

Trey: said it was a beard envy.

Cause I had the beard

Jude: beard in before.

Trey: I mean, that's a glorious beard.

He's

Jude: got it is, but okay.

It is, it is, you know, I'm
just saying like, whatever,

come talk to me in February.

Like,

you know, JB knows JB knows now.

So now when, when he said, uh, it
was kind of like the growing up,

why are you acting like you're 12?

I'm not.

And it was like, well, this does does.

And it's a little stuffed animal.

I'm like, no, that doesn't.

And there was an element of
so much gut this show, right.

That, and this is for kids that I'm like,
please don't perpetuate that stereotype.

The w like, forgetting that there's
a balance of part of growing up is

maturing, but that doesn't mean I
have to completely let go of those

things, like a cuddle to sleep with.

You know what I mean?

Like that's silly.

That's silly.

Why does the 16 year old have to stop?

Just because they're now 16 and not 12.

I mean, what's the difference between
that and then like the second pillar

that you grab and hold on to the
shape, like, you know what I mean?

And so, and so there's that element of
like, you know, and, and, and I think

I mentioned this on the pod once where
I had, when I had a senior ask and he's

like, Hey, I'm not trying to be offensive.

You know, he goes, I just, no offense,
but you know, you're an adult,

but like, you know, usually adults
outgrow toys and he's talking about

all the different toys and stuff that
I have displayed in the classroom.

Um, and my first response was a joke.

I was just like, they're not toys.

They're action figures,
they're collectibles.

Um, but no, like I said, I was
like, no, I, I get you're right,

culturally, but I have those things
precisely because I'm an adult.

Like, these are things
that I like and enjoy.

Uh, you know, and to see
them, they bring me happiness.

Cause a lot of them are from like when I
was a kid and I was just like, because I'm

an adult and comfortable in my own skin.

I don't care if you think that
I'm immature because of it.

I'm okay with it.

I'm set.

I'm comfortable with who I am.

You know what I mean?

And so that's why I bought that line
alone bothered me so much because

I felt like they got so much.

Right.

Um, you know, um, now I do hope they come
back to that because there's clearly is

this story that's coming of age story.

Right.

And I liked what they set up and
the one thing would be, like I

said, I'd come back to earlier.

What I was going to say was the subtle,
the subtle thing that they're doing,

like what the costume was wonderful,
where it was like, it's not finished.

It's not complete.

It's not complete.

And then Bruno, well get
me something Pakistani.

Right.

Okay.

You know, and then she
struggles to know with that.

Right.

And, and you get this balance of
like mom made the Hulk costume.

Oh, I can't do this.

It's not just set, you know, mom made it.

So that hurts my feelings, but
also for the mom, like this is

in, in a, a health, hopefully a
healthy respect of our own culture.

Right.

And putting a twist on it.

And she's rejecting that culture
for something else, but not a

completely cause she thinks adding
something Pakistani is a good idea.

She just kinda wants it subtle and
hidden, you know, and she doesn't

know what to use and it makes sense.

She doesn't know what to use.

She's still figuring out who
she is as if she's not really

aware of that, which she's 16.

It's okay.

It's perfectly fine.

Yeah, she's not going to know or figure
out, you know, what's my flare that

I'm going to add to it, but she's 16.

She wouldn't know it's I

Trey: think that's what makes the,
the, her reaction understandable

is that it's not that she's
outright rejecting her family.

She's I don't think she understands
how to communicate that it needs to be

her choice because the first refusal
that she has, when the parents come in,

just like, no, this is me and Bruno.

And so that you've right about that
continuous thread of like, it's missing

one thing, it's missing one thing who
are you look in the mirror what's left,

what do you want to be in this world?

And it's the, you know, the bangle, that
is what eventually is going to be the

character or the catalyst, which sets
this character on the journey forward.

But I love the way you have outlined how
they manifested that with the costume

missing something, because you know, it
is, it is her identity up until this point

that she now has to morph into her own.

Yeah,

Jude: God, I can't wait to see what
they go with this because like, I mean,

clearly we can, hopefully it's clear to
me, hopefully it's clear to the, everybody

else, the family connection of like that
was in the box that her nanny Nanna sent

not only sent and like very quickly, like
her mom knows what it is very quickly

like, oh, you're not going to have that.

You, you know, When she brought
up Nani, oh, you're going to

mention some story about Nani.

And so you can tell there's
some tension there between mom

and, um, grandmother, you know?

And so there's clearly a thing of like,
I'm protecting you from things you

don't know about that his family has.

That it will, you know, come together and
mom's growth is going to be accepting that

you are who you are and Kamala, hopefully,
otherwise it's going to be really sad,

you know, and Kamala is going to get this.

Begin to, I hope cause it'd be really
shoot the realism out, you know, for,

for that age, if all of a sudden she
fully knows who she is like by the

end of it like that shouldn't happen.

But I would think have a healthier
respect for her own parents.

And, and that balance of
this is who I am, you know?

And, and, and, and that culture, because
when I say that culture, I mean, as

that kid walking that line of, of
wanting to be proud of the culture you

come from, but also fit in socially
in a school environment can be tough.

Trey: So I absolutely love what you just
said, and I'm going to, I'm going to play

off of that and use that to transition
us into the final, most important topic.

But you talked about the
importance of the bank.

And their family.

And how is clearly something
the mother recognizes?

It's something the grandmother has gifted
and is now in the possession of Kamala.

The thing that they're doing
visually, that I was just head over

heels for on my second and third
watch is even on the first watch.

I love this shot, but now
having seen it multiple times, I

understand what they're going for.

She comes into that living room.

She plops down on the couch and the camera
light tracks her as the camera inverts

and sees from her upside down perspective.

Oh, that was great shot.

So wonderful.

That's our first introduction to the bank.

This is she, the world's
upside down for her.

She's trying to figure it out.

She writes herself back up and
that's when she finds the bangle.

Everything carries on to
the things that happened.

We talked about the
dynamics of the family.

Eventually she gets to the con
when she puts the Bangalore.

Once again, the camera follows
as she does the 360 flip because

it's now fully part of who she is.

So that's what I was getting at.

When I was saying that this is the
catalyst, that's going to push Kamala

to figuring out who she wants to be.

And the, like the chef's kiss of
this is at the end, when she comes

back home and her mom catches her in
the room, the mom gives the speech.

She talks about how like, well, if you
knew what I was going to say, and I was

going to have some story about Nani and
you betrayed me anyway, why would you do.

She eventually leaves the room.

Kamala has the bracelet and she
follows, she falls under the bed,

but it's almost perpendicular.

So she's right in the middle, trying
to figure out where she's going to

be with her journey in this bangle.

And I was just like, oh my God.

So,

Jude: so good.

Okay.

There's even stuff in there
that like all you're right.

A hundred percent of all of that, just
the, the camera choices, everything.

The one camera choice that they did
that I was just like, and they didn't

have to, they didn't have to do this.

Right.

This is purely like, I think it helps
in telling the story and the characters,

but just a purely creative shot is
when they were at the lockers and the

cameras on the inside of the lockers.

And you see the two of them talking
separate through the lockers

and you could have easily done
that shot, like any other show.

Oh.

And the other side, you
know, shot, reverse shot,

establishing shot, shot, reverse.

You know, and, and, and found a way to do
the same thing, but to, to come on that

side of it and have the blocked off part
of the screen with the closed locker.

So good.

You know, cause I mean, there is
that storytelling element, right?

There's something about them
they're separated, you know?

And so you kind of get the sense of.

For me, they're not fully
on the same page, you know?

Um, but I also liked that it was a
kind of also reinforces what I think

we're seeing is not just the interest
in each other, but his interest in

her because he comes to her locker
and has to cross over, you know, and,

and, and now they're framed together
because at other lockers, well close.

So all you get is just that for briefing.

Uh, so good.

Trey: Yeah.

So all I was going to say
is, I think we're fully

transitioned into the final act.

This is the con, this is going to
take us through the planning phases

of their expectation versus the actual
implementation of their, their plan

as well as attending the con itself.

And I feel like I could gush for
days about the visual inventive.

And it's not like it's doing
anything super complex, but

the way we have seen Kamala, so
upset about not being able to go.

And sh when she hatches the plan for
going to the convention, the Zuzu

technology that Bruno set them up with
turns the light on right above her

head, wind up perfectly, just like
they didn't have, like you said, they

don't have to have these flourishes,
but they're just flaunting it.

And so confidently within this show.

And, and to even go even further,
once they're actually talking

about the plan, you're getting more
of that visual depiction of how.

Kamala sees herself, how she sees others
and the expectations that she has for

her plans to work out and then to come
back to Bruno saying, so your plan is

to take the bus and it's just like, it's
a good push and pull between these two.

I love it.

Yeah.

Jude: Yeah.

I love it.

That's the note you got out of all of
this and can, it's so real for her.

Like, like she has the jump out, the
window gets it, you know, spin superhero

landing, and then like actually tries it.

And the tree branch falls
like that was so wonderful.

Trey: I was shocked that she tried it,
like the fact that she jumped out the

window on that branch and it fell not
only is it one of those, like, it, it, it

immediately endears you to the character.

Cause like, you're like, oh no, like
you, you want to know if she's okay,

but because they showed that she had the
courage or the lack of, of self care to

do that made me question when they got to
the bus, is she going to try and pull the

stunt that she talked about in the plan?

And the beautiful thing is in the plan.

It is clearly not them.

Obviously they would have stunt
doubles, but I think it might've been

a choice to like, yeah, this is clearly
not them riding the bikes because

it's all part of that superficial
reality that she believes in versus

what the actual expectation will be.

Yeah.

Jude: Ah, it's so good.

It's so good.

And again, just as whole
that age, I'm invincible.

No, I don't say no real care of
self, but like, yeah, I got this.

Yeah, jumping off the crash and
it wasn't worried about him.

I heard am I injured?

You know?

Cause like, if, if I do that,
I'm like, oh man, something hurt.

Whether it might be shoulder.

I don't know about it's
my next three months.

Right.

Where she's just like, oh
man, this is my way back in.

Like that's and again, at
her age, that makes sense.

That's what she would say.

I

Trey: think self preservation
was the word I was looking for.

Not the lack of self, but yeah.

I mean, it, it takes some
guts to jump out a window.

Jude: So funny.

Trey: Well, what's also so brilliant
about that planning sequence too, is, is

that it's all so perfectly timed by this
time we're gonna be here by this time.

We're going to be there
and so on and so forth.

And then when the plan actually takes
place, I love that they were like

crossing out the time being like,
all right, they're a little bit late.

They're a little bit late until it
gets to the moment where she's like,

all right, be in, be home by 900.

It's 11, 11.

And it's just like those
visual nods were wonderful.

And it helped create that Delta
between expectations and reality.

Yes.

Jude: Okay.

Avenger con, hold on.

I want it to be real.

I'm looking, hold on.

You can actually get
the Avenger con merge.

Really?

Yes.

I have the link right here,
but how did you find it?

marvel.com as a side note, while you're
looking it up, we look here's the shirt.

It says like, here's the shirt that
says New Jersey of Intercon on it.

I was there.

Yeah.

Like,

Trey: well, I'm also going to
say is like watching the, the

S the Marvel studios subreddit.

Go down the rabbit hole of like
that's clearly Marvel logos.

That means Marvel exists within
the MCU and they're selling toys

of the heroes and it just went off.

I was like, at a certain point, we
just got to like, okay, we get it.

It's just real world

Jude: like, like this right here.

The t-shirt I can do this all day.

New Jersey adventure con like, oh,
I know you're going to have one.

Trey: I just bought a
Bo Burnham hat today.

I can't buy this too

Jude: New Jersey Avenger
con with Grood on it.

And underneath it says, Mr.

Tree, Mr.

Tree, the Wakanda tours, six nights,
four days available vendor CA

Trey: this is becoming an ad that

Jude: we're not, it's not.

Oh, okay.

Anyways, uh, there's actually a couple of
shirts I'm looking for here that I'm kind

of disappointed that I don't see, but,
uh, you know what, um, the, the pride one,

you know, cause because they, because.

The production made such a
point to have that on screen.

Right?

It's like not something in the background.

That is one that I would
expect to be on the shop, you

know, maybe it'll get updated

Trey: hope.

So.

So what were you, what were your thoughts
on Avengers con as depicted in the show?

Well, let me rephrase this because
I said I want to go, have you ever

been to a con like that for anything?

And he's specific conventions?

Jude: X-Files X-Files
back in the nineties.

Yeah.

In Dallas, uh, went my dad
and I, and, um, really cool.

Lot of fun.

Uh, got the, I want to
believe poster in an auction.

We almost got a script, like an
actual shooting trip with directors

notes signed by the director
and the writer of that episode.

And it was the episode
Stephen King wrote, oh, wow.

It's in the auction.

And I'm sitting there with my dad and
just like, oh, you know, and he's, he's,

he's bidding on it and I forgot what
price it got to and somebody else bid.

And then he, he looked, he looked
at me and I just, and I knew my

dad probably would have a bit
again, but I just shook my head.

No.

And so the other guy got it.

You know, I just, I felt bad.

I was like, nah, I appreciate it.

But now shake my head.

Trey: That's super cool
though, to even be that close.

Yeah.

Jude: Oh,

Trey: so awesome.

My only experience.

And probably another one of the reasons
why I think this episode was so endearing

to me is I I've talked about it before.

One of my big inspirations,
when it comes to.

Creating content is rooster
teeth, specifically Burnie burns.

And I got to go to the first ever RTX.

And I think they've had
like eight of them now.

So I remember that feeling of
like, we got to go to the first

one like this, like she said, they
will never be another first time.

So to, to be able to go and be a part
of that was spectacular because now it's

like thousands of people who go to RTX.

But that first year it
was like 500 people.

And like I was playing catch with
the founders of rooster teeth.

We were just playing football and
water balloon fights and like getting

to be a part of that experience.

I've felt like a vendor's
con captured that excitement.

So wonderfully well, because as
RTX grew and got bigger, that

con floor felt so familiar.

Jude: You know what?

Okay, so this is the one thing I will say.

Then you go back to your question for me.

Um, pardon me?

It seems kind of, I mean, used the word
cheap for something like that in terms

of like, I was looking at venue and
stuff and it was like, it was almost

like what Sean said, uh, from the
caption life about, okay, I've been to

a Broadway play, you know what I mean?

And so, and for him, he goes,
there was an element of.

The production value.

He felt like took him out of it, you know,
for, for, for the capita American musical.

And so it did have me just kinda
like, like imagining what, like San

Diego Comic-Con is and, and, and,
you know, and those types of things

versus the concept into, versus
the X-Files con that I've been to.

It's like, no, that's
what a con looks like.

You know what I mean?

And then, but you see
pictures and images of.

Some other cons are really big names,
San Diego Comic-Con and stuff like that.

Um, then I'm like, no, that seems
kinda, you know what I mean?

Um, but I think it actually
tracks being the first one, you

know, me being the first one.

And so, and so that's in that sense.

So that was like my first,
uh, viewing reaction to it.

And then in the second one, I'm like, no,
this is like the first one it's at camp

Lehigh, like, which was a nice touch.

And um, so yeah, so like I
thought it was wonderful.

Trey: I got the impression
that this was a fan run event.

And so that for me, that's what was
contributing to that like, oh, this isn't,

this feels like it's in the back of some
warehouse that is, was like put together.

But I forgot what it was.

I wish I could remember specifically, but
I feel like a character says something to

insinuate that it is like a group of fans.

Who've got to get.

And put this on, not necessarily like,
not even shield where like the Avengers

headquarters, like obviously they
wouldn't put this on kind of thing.

So I guess why that's why I didn't feel
too much of the cheapness, I guess, but

yeah, I mean, it was, it was riddled
with Easter eggs all over the place.

I love the you're welcome
America caricature of Steve,

of, of captain Steve Rogers.

Uh, I love this wasn't part of a
vendor's con, but it was at the

beginning I'll group it here finding
out that Scott Lang has a podcast.

Oh,

Jude: that was so awesome.

Trey: There was just so many great little
nuggets, like even having the photo

booth of the giant ant man and Kamala
was sitting in the hand of Scott Lang.

Like this is a fully, I keep coming
back to this fully realized world, but

that's, I guess that's just the impression
I'm coming from with this episode.

Also, if this is a fan run event
that would explain the lax native.

Everybody seemed to have when
Kamala accidentally knocks

the giant man's head off.

Jude: And it was so easy
to knock the head off.

Trey: Yeah.

Like I was like, I felt like I was more
worried than the people in the show.

And then I, like, I was caught off
guard when Zoe gets hit by mule Mayer.

That was a brutal hit.

Like I know she's okay.

But that, like that came

Jude: down.

I know that was, I, you knew there was
going to be that moment where, okay.

You're going to save.

Kamala is going to say.

I expected that to happen then.

And so when she got hit, I
was like, what the, okay.

Trey: Because all she does is,

Jude: you know, um, but I'm actually
glad because cause it's Kamala Khan, a

teenager has no idea what she's doing.

And so it just makes sense of
like move and she's getting

herself out of the way, you know?

Um, and she, she wouldn't know
how to use her powers yet.

Anything like that.

It's like, she clearly
doesn't know what she's doing.

So in that sense it was, it was fantastic.

Okay.

I'm going to be negative for a second.

Okay.

The only thing or the biggest thing
I didn't like about this episode

besides the, that the brother thing,
the visual effects on her, what

she was shooting out that I don't
know what it was, what to call it.

Yeah.

That that, that crystal is
saying, but it just didn't, it

looked out of place, you know?

Um, and my first thought was, and I
know, you know, there's, um, the D

the Disney plus shows are starting
to kind of have some reactions of

like, okay, you're CGI starting to get
bad, you know, and I've seen that in

some places, and the truth is on CGI.

It's just about budget, you know?

Right.

Yeah.

So it was like, what, what was it?

The Henry Cavill with the really bad
CGI to remove the mustache and the, in

the Wieden reshoots of justice league.

And it's like, no, they honestly,
they could have got that.

Right.

How much money are you
willing to spend on it?

Really.

And so, in, in that sense, um, my
first reaction when I saw that it

was like, uh, I already hear the
complaints coming now, you know?

Um, now having said that, like, it
didn't, if it wasn't for knowing

about all the complaints coming out,
it didn't take me out of the show.

Like it didn't, I didn't look at it.

And it was like, oh man, that's bad.

It was more like, oh, here,
here, come the complaints.

You know what I mean?

Like, like I was fine with it, but

Trey: well, it already had a mountain
to clear because it has been part

of the controversy of the power
has been changed from the comics.

And I talked about not feeling as.

Upset about it whenever we watch the
trailer, because we didn't, we hadn't

had a reason for why it has changed yet.

And I don't one episode in, I
don't think we have a reason yet,

but they're hinting at a purpose.

And the purpose of it being tied to her
family to me feels significantly more

interesting than what the comics was like.

I'm so tuned into what this mystery of her
family's connection to the bangle is and

what it means for her and her identity.

Trying to figure out her place
in all of this, that like,

I'm completely fine with it.

I get what you mean.

The, the.

Um, neither here nor there.

It does look a little confusing at times.

Like everything up until the outstretched
arms part, it was like, okay, this, this,

like I had a hard time tracking what they
were trying to show me with that power.

Like, it just, it was this weird
rectangle thing, but once she like arm

outstretched and caught Zoe in the air,
or later on, when they're sneaking back

into the house and she's able to step
off of it, I've it could be, we're just

like, she's learning kind of thing.

So, but I, I like what they've
done with the power so far.

Jude: Yeah.

Okay.

And also I'll say that because I
was talking purely visual, right.

In terms of how she gets her
power, knowing that they were

changing, it doesn't bother me.

Um, in fact, I think, I think
if they didn't change it, it

would end up bothering me more.

Um, you know, and, and just real quick for
those who don't know, like, so we try not

to get into comics stuff too much, whereas
those don't know, um, in the comics.

Kamala Khan's and inhuman, which
means there is genetically speaking.

Um, these powers have
always been within her.

It just needed to be unlocked by
some terrorism and this territory

goes off and she breezed it in
doesn't hurt others, but any inhuman.

Turns on their power.

Um, now I'm oversimplifying that.

So for example, if you did see the
Inhumans TV show, um, if you didn't,

I don't blame you cause I didn't
either, uh, you know, or Asians or.

Right.

What quake?

She was in human and it's.

And the reason why I bring up the,
the Inhumans TV show is because in the

comics, the Inhumans, there are, they
have these powers, but, eh, but there

are w I can't remember who it was,
which two groups, but essentially it

was like the, yeah, the Cree and stuff.

Um, anyways, that's now it's turning into
a long story, so I'm gonna stop there.

That's what it is for Kamala.

Here's why I would think I'd
be upset actually, if they,

if they didn't change it.

Cause, cause what ends up
happening is doing it this way.

You're going to get a story, a coming
of age story, where a Kamala is going

to have that agency and have to learn
something and choose a particular, well,

what Martin was trying to get Bishop
to understand, like, this is this life

isn't, you know, you see it as glamour.

It's not, you know, um, and
it's not an easy choice to make.

And if she gets her powers, like the
way in the comic, how do you show that?

And really explain it where it's not
something that was forced on her, or she

didn't get to have the agency and choose,
you know, um, and that's a problem.

And that happened to miss
Marvel, Carol Danvers when

she got her powers originally.

And when the higher, further, faster
came out and they kind of redid her

origin story to go from miss Marvel, to
captain Marvel, for Carol Danvers, they

made it really, really made a point to
emphasize her agency and choosing to

be hero rather than having it something
forced on her without any kind of choice.

Trey: And this is like I said, as much
as they're tying it into the history of

the family, it just screenwriting wise.

It makes more sense to do it.

This.

Well, yeah, I think that's going
to do it for that last, most

important topic of the con.

Uh, it's going to move us into our final
thoughts, which is the section for us

to gather any stray thoughts, make any
predictions, our highlight things to

consider moving into next week's episode.

Now, one of the things that was unusual
for this Disney plus series that other,

the other ones haven't had yet, I don't
think is the first episode had an intact,

which we're going to go ahead and at
least talk about here within this section.

What are your thoughts on that in
tag, where we have the revelation that

we have some sort of detectives very
curious about Kamala's powers at the

Jude: convention.

My thoughts is the jury still out.

I don't know how I feel.

Um, and only because we talked about.

The in tags all the way back to Wanda
vision and I'm not doing them well.

And like, I was actually
a little disappointed.

I'm like, you've yet to put an
in tag at the first episode.

Why are you doing this here?

You know?

And, and so there was, there was a
little bit of like, what do you do?

And you still haven't figured
how to get this right.

They have potential to make this
the best Intacct they've ever done.

Oh, wow.

And the only reason why
I say that is I go back.

What was her complaint of the
intaglio and Wanda vision, where

Monica Rambos is going to what look
in the basement and gets caught.

Put that in episode, why like,
like that it didn't make sense to

have that as an intac, you know?

And so it should be part
of the story, right?

Whereas this, depending on how they
come out of it with, and when we see

these characters again, it's going to
be one of those in where it's like, it's

pushing the story along and giving you
a glimpse of something that's going on.

But with it, doesn't, it's not something
that is like, that actually should

have been included as part of the
story in episode, you know what I mean?

Like, it felt like a, really a true
in tag of like, oh, we're teasing or

something that's to come, you know?

But like, even if you don't see
that it makes sense people are

videoing it and somebody is going
to go ask that, you know, like,

like it makes sense either way.

And so it's truly giving
you something extra.

Trey: It's almost like they're
hiding it in plain sight.

It's like, they want to plant that seed.

And like, I'm hoping because I'm with you.

I was really thinking about it.

Cause it's like all the conversations
we had about like, no, make

it part of your story if it
needs to be part of your story.

But if the intention of this in tag
is to, Hey, we're going to plant

this seed about this for boating.

But for the next three or four episodes,
we're not going to highlight any

of this until you get that oh, crap
moment where they come back to that.

And you've had that like UN that
subconscious, like foreboding

feeling this entire time.

I would appreciate that.

Like, I think that would turn out really
well for this in tag specifically, because

I don't know what purpose there is,
but I'm very curious as to why they're

tying this back to, Spider-Man no way
home, because that's the detective.

That was the ones that had
Ned, Peter and aunt may.

And.

So I, it could just be like, one
of those things is continuity.

This is just a, a detective who
works within this world, but it is

worth noting that that is the same
detective from, Spider-Man no way home.

Jude: I didn't catch that.

Okay.

I'm really curious now, what are
they going to take that I'm going

Trey: to double check and make
sure it is that I'm not mixing

it, but I'm almost like 80% sure.

It's the same guy.

I w because I'll pull back the
curtain, we talked a little bit

about this, and I was shocked that
that didn't pick up on your radar.

Jude: I think I was so shocked
that there was an intact at the

end of this episode, honestly.

Um, yeah.

So, yeah, that did not register with.

Trey: It's on the outskirts.

It is part of the story.

If we don't come back to it
for a few episodes, I don't

think we're missing anything.

And that Spider-Man no way home connection

Jude: is huge.

Oh yeah, because that will be man.

I, so front angel and I were
talking about this the other day.

I say this not Ms.

Marvel.

I mean, anyways, Spider-Man no way home.

Um, and he was, uh, telling me why
we were wrong or why I was wrong.

Cause I made the argument on Thor.

Um, You know what, actually, he
had a really good argument though.

Um, he said, he said, what ended
up happening is he said, well, what

you, what you were saying was true
and compelling for that, the war

movie and what it did for the MCU.

He said, but the argument and logic
you used for like Ironman three

was purely based on the trilogy.

And so if we would apply those
same rules to Thor, it didn't

kick off a good trilogy, you know?

And so in that way, you know,
and I mean, it is what it is.

I had fun in the, the timer.

We went with the timer, you know, and,
and we didn't like, okay, this isn't bad.

We, we went with our gut.

Like I loved it.

Not gonna change anything on there now.

And the only time I bring that up is
cause we got into this idea of like

between Disney plus shows and movies.

And how does Canon work?

You know, and it's like, uh,
well, we'll use Daredevil.

Like when Daredevil first came out,
everybody's excited that this is

going to be part of the MCU and you
see the mentioning incidents in New

York and those types of stuff, but
nothing from there moved upwards,

everything flowed down into those shows.

And so everything so far
and Disney plus has flowed.

I think down into the Disney plus shows,
we haven't seen a lot until, um, this

is, this, isn't a spoiler multi-verse
of madness because I'm part of the

marketing, Wanda Scarlet wishes in it.

But that's the first we've seen
continuity from those shows

go upwards towards the film.

That detective means.

That's the first continuity we've seen.

I mean, I guess aside from venom little
thing, but that's still questionable, you

know, cause it's a Sony production and
it wasn't in a Marvel studios by itself.

Movie was in the, you know, the
tag of a Sony movie, but we haven't

seen anything flow from Sony towards
Marvel, besides Spider-Man itself

that had any kind of, and Ned,

Trey: Ned was an infinitive
bus and an end game

Jude: at the end,

Trey: at the end.

Jude: I'm not going to, I'm not going
to count that because you show it.

I mean, they show it, but I'm not
going to count that because it's not

like Ned didn't do anything the way.

Iron man participated in the
Sony movie or fury participated

in the Sony far from home or Dr.

Strange, you didn't see, except
for civil war, any of the others,

you don't see any of those
Spider-Man characters flow this way.

And so that's why it's like, I'm really
now curious of what do they do with that

detective as if, if that's who it was.

Cause that will be the first
character from a Sony movie

coming into something of the MCU.

That's not just for the connective tissue,
like Ned was right and not Spiderman.

Trey: I see you're and not Spiderman.

Right.

Cause it, theoretically, this character
is going to have more agency than

like we're all gonna die on the bus.

Like there's going to be
more of an involvement.

So I see what you mean.

Yeah.

That's, that's a huge.

So I one, I guess we're just gonna
have to keep pin on it and see,

Jude: um, you know, which, which, you
know, going back to the draft that,

that may or may not, uh, be a problem
for Spider-Man movies actually within

the, the trilogy and the MCU, you know?

Um, cause we even actually talked about
how is like, I mean to reality because

of that you could take Ironman fury and
strange out and have the same movies.

I can put a pin on that if you
want for that hour, that Ms.

Marvel episode, but

Trey: I'd have to think about.

I, we should make that episode.

How vital are the MCU or the Marvel
studio characters in the Spiderman films

were on a hot streak on episode ideas.

If only we could just find a time to make

Jude: day job.

And so, yeah, so like, uh, we'll put
a pin on that, but yeah, I'll have to

say if he does show up and get him miss
Marvel and especially plays like a big

role of some kind of investigation then.

Yeah.

That's huge.

And also why I say could be the best
in tag of even over the Intacct in

midnight, because, um, Because it's
something that is a thread there

that's actually being pulled through
and adding to the MCU tapestry.

Whereas it's just a little nice
fan nod for moon night, if you're

not going to have a season two.

So

Trey: yeah, without comic book
knowledge, it's like who's Jake Lockley.

So, uh, sticking with Ms.

Marvel, uh, I'm gonna, I'm
going to go with a strength.

This week, and it comes in the, in
credits, the, uh, the actual credits

itself, not the post credit scene.

There is a trust a bro moving
company truck that happened

that passes by on the street.

And I thought that was a
nice little connective tests.

Jude: Really cool.

That is really cool.

Trey: Yeah.

You were talking about the possibility
of young Avengers or Bishop

showing up that truck was there.

I mean, why else would it be there then?

Just again, annuity.

So I guess that's my stray thought
slash things to consider maybe

not next week, but this season

Jude: I just looked it up.

I am DB agent Cleary.

Spider-Man Noah home and Ms.

Marvel generation Y well,

Trey: yep.

100%.

You know what I just realized I was
so excited to get into this episode.

I didn't do the, if you downloaded
this episode, you know, we're

gonna be talking about season
one, episode, one generation, Y.

Jude: If you're streaming it free
on Spotify, it didn't download.

You're just straight streaming.

This is where we're going
to be talking about.

Trey: Oh man.

Well, do you have any, any more

Jude: final thoughts on the way out?

I can't wait.

I can't wait to see season
to season two, episode two,

Trey: gimme season two while you're at

Jude: like, oh my gosh, I cannot wait.

This is so good.

This is so good.

Like, I don't remember feeling this
pumped after gearing, Hawkeye after

episode one, filling this bump.

I didn't feel this excited
and pumped about room night.

Um, and not because I didn't like it or
didn't like episode one, but it was still,

it was just like, what did I just see?

You know, kind of feeling of
like what's going on here or is

this is just like, oh my gosh.

Tell me more of the story.

Um, and the real quick.

Um, on the Valani Valani um, I'm trying
to make sure I say her name correctly.

Unbelievable.

This is her first job, right?

I believe so.

And yeah, so it's like, like there's
six credits on IMB for self, right.

And all of them are like TV it's 20, 22.

That is like the promotional circuit,
the daily show, Jimmy Fallon and the

national, the live would reach, you
know, Kelly and Ryan, good morning

America, like all self all succesl
there's like the promotional run.

And she is, and, and I, there was
some people including myself that

was a little bit nervous of like,
oh man, this is a franchise starter.

Oh, my gosh.

So good.

Trey: At the risk of being hyperbolic,
I am putting a mud Valani on that

same category as Robert Downey, Jr.

Chris Evans, Scarlett Johannson as pitch.

Perfect cast.

For their characters.

Jude: Oh yes.

100%.

Trey: Amman is Kamala Khan, obviously
everything we talked about within the

episode today, but just the stories
that you're hearing coming out,

she's arguing with Kevin FYGI about
the continuity of the 6 1 6 universe

or the, is it 19 9, 9, 9 universe.

She

Jude: Kamala Khan.

Cause that's exactly.

If go read the comics, that's
what comma Kamala Khan would do.

She would argue as a fan of the heroes.

Uh, she argued with Colson
and like corrected Colson.

Like she, she, she knows her stuff,
you know, and that, you know,

Trey: I know there's a cynical side that
could say, okay, maybe it's PR coaching.

I don't care.

She is so charismatic.

She is so clearly excited about
being this character takes it

very like she's precious about it.

The other moment that I was, that
was so endearing is that they put her

on a timer and they're like, can you
name all the Marvel studios movies?

And she, she tried and she
forgot gardens the gallery.

And captain Marvel, which is very
ironic, but also the incredible Hawk.

And she goes, I don't count that one.

And it's just, it's so funny to see
how comfortable she feels within Marvel

studios already pitch perfect casting on

Jude: their part.

And truly you're not being hyperbolic.

Like go read the.

Like this is Kamala Khan.

Trey: I'm so excited for this season.

Jude: This is what I will
watch over and over again.

I'm I'm 100%.

I got to get me a Kamala Khan
shirt and miss Marvel, Kamala Khan

Trey: shirt.

Well, yeah, I think that's
going to do it for the episode.

You know, we mentioned last week
that I am on social media break.

So if you do want to follow us, you
can at MC you need to know both on

Twitter and Instagram, but right now,
one of the best places to actually get

in contact with us is in the discord.

It's a great place to talk about what
you thought of the episode, what you

thought about this podcast as well, and
join other people who are just as excited

as we are about Marvel studios projects,
as well as any other pop culture stuff

you'd like to share within the discord.

So you can find that link in
the show notes if you'd like

to come join that conversation.

Yeah.

Jude: And of course, same here.

I'm on my, my social media break.

And if you listened to the last episode,
uh, you know, we're both kind of targeting

a little bit later in the summer to
kind of ramp that back up again, but

you could also share your thoughts
by leaving a rating and a review,

and we'd love to read your thoughts.

Is it passive, aggressive?

And then.

It wasn't passive aggressive.

Do I need to say that again?

Well,

Trey: it wasn't passive aggressive
until you asked if it, I didn't

think anything of it, you questioning
it made it sound fast, but

we'll read your thoughts and we'll
have a few thoughts of our own.

Jude: Okay.

I'm going to do something a
little unorthodox for this.

Okay.

And just, and just tell you about that
in the class I teach, you know, and we

have the same and we talk about this
one theologian I like and whatever, and,

and, and he talks about beauty, right?

And he says, you know, the thing
about beauty is, is beauty will stop

you, grab you and send you, you know?

And, and we do that here with
like, right, the, the beauty

of movies and MCU grabs us.

And it's, it stops us
in our tracks, grabs us.

And we do want to tell people about it.

Our pot is beautiful.

That's why you're here listening.

Now we send you out, share it with a
friend, share it with your friends.

Trey: I had no idea where that was.

That was beautiful.

Oh man.

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy
for these of this things off.

Nope.

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for
the use of our theme song, which is

his rendition of the Avengers theme.

You can find more of his work
on a SoundCloud, which is linked

in the show notes as well.

That's going to do it.

Thank you so much for listening and Jude.

Thank you so much for doing this.

We'll see you all next week.

immediately jumped to this section, but
for anybody who may be new listeners who

are tuning in for the first time first.

We're going to be covering
this series week to week.

Uh, it launches the Monday
after the episode premieres on.

Uh, we will have pre spoiler thoughts.

So if you haven't seen the episode yet,
this will be a chance for you to hear what

we thought of the episode without getting
into spoilers, followed by the spoiler

zone, where we're going to be talking
about the episode into the most important

topics with all spoilers revealed.

So without further ado, we're gonna go
ahead and jump into the spoiler zone.

So on the other side
of the audio, oh shoot.

What did I say?

So, like I said, you're
going to hear an audio.

Okay.

Here we go.

I had to reboot there for a second.

It's been a while.

So like it's been awhile.

So like I said, you're
gonna hear an audio cue.

And on the other side, it'll be fair
game for all spoilers in the MCU

accent multi-verse of madness because
that has not hit Disney plus yet.

We'll see you on the
other side and we're back.

So we've gotten three most
important topics for you.

This episode, we're going
to have the daydreamer, the.

God dang.

I'm out of practice the family.

Let me try looking at my
notes and see if that helps.

I'm going to start over and we're back.