Ms. Marvel Review S1E2: Budget Captain Marvel

The latest episode of Ms. Marvel gave us a Nakia campaign to cheer for and a Kamala family history to explore! Join us this week as we continue to geek out at the latest Marvel episode!

Trey: Hello.

And welcome back to
another episode of MCU.

You need to know a podcast dedicated
to the Marvel cinematic universe

and everything you need to know.

I'm Trey.

I'm Jude.

Jude: How you doing

Trey: Trey?

I'm pretty good, man.

I okay.

I'm laughing because last week
when I was editing and I got to

the I'm Jude part, you said it.

So like action news.

Now that it, it, it hit
me so hard in the edits.

that's funny.

I'm Jude.

Jude: You know what?

It's so funny.

Like I remember.

Saying, my name was one of the hardest
parts to learn when we first started

and now I'm so comfortable with it.

And I admit, I kind of vary it on
purpose just a little bit still.

Like, I haven't quite settled in
the best way to say my own name.

Um, so yeah, listen, you

Trey: got, you gotta
keep 'em on their toes.

You know, they never know what's gonna
gonna happen after the I'm train that's

Jude: right.

I mean, I'm sure people listen,
just tune in for just that.

Oh, okay.

I said it this way.

This time

Trey: click, if you exist, if that's
you let us know, I wanna know.


The person that listens to like the
first three minutes and that's up?

What about you June?

How are you doing

Jude: it's Friday mm-hmm of a three day.

Which is also weird
because it's summer school.

So I'm only doing half days anyway.

So it's like, I don't know.

It's weird.

um, but my oldest also comes home,
been traveling internationally, gets

home, uh, tomorrow super excited
about that Sunday, his father's day.

And we'll go to my dad's house for
a little bit, eat a burger, eat

a hot dog, probably take a nap.

Trey: so that sounds like
a good father's day to me.

you know?

Jude: Uh, so yeah, so like
that's, uh, that's what I have

Trey: lined up.


So I do wanna mention this cuz I'm
super excited that I think it was this

Monday, the day, our last episode dropped
Thor tickets finally went on sale.

So I was able to secure mine
for that Saturday, July 9th.

And I'm really excited, man.

I it's getting to the point where
it feels like the MCU movies

are just sneaking up on me.

Like they're happen
happening so frequently.

It's just like you turn
around and there's a new one.

Jude: yeah.

Um, I can't, I I've had
my th tickets for a while.


Um, yeah, and I just, I don't, I
don't really wanna get into how

I got 'em cuz I have to bash.

Multiverse madness to explain.

Trey: So, yeah.

All right.

So if you downloaded
this episode, you need

Jude: Well, if you remember, it was,
it was the whole thing about, about

not bringing our food and, and drinks.


And we got comp two tickets.

And so I love it.

This is how mega Thor.


Trey: love how you can't say
that without bashing multiverse.

look before, before I get us in
trouble again, I'm gonna go ahead

and say, if you downloaded this
episode, you know that we're gonna

be talking about season one episode,
two of this Marvel titled crushed.

Wanted to make sure I got that in
this week since I missed it last week.


Jude: yeah.

And look, look for all of
y'all y'all know who y'all are.

Trace, trace, sat me down, had the talk.

So I will no longer talk about Dr.

Strange and the multiverse.


You're driving me madness.

Trey: I like yours better.

I love how you say I sat you down
for the talk where you called me.

oh man.

So if you're new to this show, the
way we're gonna handle it is we're

gonna have some pre spoiler thoughts
for the latest episode of miss Marvel

followed by the spoiler zone where
we'll get into the full details.

So before we get there, Jude,
what are your pre spoiler thoughts

for this episode of miss Marvel?


Jude: I spoiler texted
you and TK all caps.

Oh my God.

I love this show.

I think by the time the opening
credit started like, I, I, I

just, I don't know how they did it.

Like as much as I loved episode one, they
were able to like, I feel like they're

setting me up for a fall cuz it's so good.

You know?

And it's just like, oh my gosh, how is
this episode better than the first one,

you know, or, or at least on par and.

Crossing my fingers for episode
three, that they keep this up.

Mm-hmm I have no reason to
feel like that they can't.

Trey: So I think I'm the, the sour
grapes in this scenario, because

you were talking about how much you
loved it and I just texted you back.

I'm afraid to get hurt again.

cuz it always feels like the Disney plus
shows start off so strong and then by

the end it's like, oh, okay, whatever.

But yeah, I'm on that same limb with you.

And I just wanted to add, not only did
you spoiler text the group that you

loved it so much, you also messaged me
in on a separate, just two me message

and said take an hour off work and just
watch it and uh, if I would've found

time to take off for an hour to watch
it, it would've been well worth it,

cuz I I'm right on that limb with you.

I think the biggest takeaway I had from
this episode is we often talk about.

How representation's important.


And one of the things we mention is
how it gives an avenue for people

to see themselves on the screen.

The thing that I think is wonderful about
miss Marvel is not only is, am I sure that

it's doing that it's educational as well?

Like there are things that we'll get into
that I, like, I didn't know about that.

I found myself going down rabbit holes,
reading about that really demonstrated

why representation is so important
because these are stories that are

getting front and center attention.

And it's just, I, it, this, this
series is special already and I

I'm fully in love with everything.

Episode two has done so far.



Jude: I, I'm gonna say this.

And it's weird because I feel like
I've said this multiple times.

And so it, it's, it's a recency bias
that I'm trying to be careful of, but

it's just like, this might be the,
my favorite or the best, you know?

And it's like, oh, I said that about
Hawkey I kind of said that about

moon night, you know, and, and stuff.

And the, the excitement I have in
watching it and, and rewatching,

it is just off the charts.

Trey: I think the best distinguishing
thing I can say before heading into the

spoiler zone is we were talking about
it and I had this distinction where it's

like, look, I like midnight, two episodes
in missed Marvel is such an easier

recommendation than that show for sure.

But I think it might be the
easiest recommendation out

of any of the MCU shows.

So for, oh yeah.

Without question.

Yeah, well with those pre spoiler
thoughts outta the way, I think we can

go ahead and jump into the spoiler zone.

So, like I said, you're gonna
hear an audio cue and on the other

side, it'll be fair game for all
spoilers in the MCU, except Dr.

Strange in the multiverse of madness.

We'll see you on the other side

and we're back.

So the way we're gonna handle this
is we're gonna break this down

into the most important topics.

This week.

We have the mosque board hero training,
family history and hard light or flight.

The first one with the mosque board
is going to have us detailing the

storylines where NAIA is pointing out
the inequality of the women's section

of the mosque and how that eventually
leads to her, deciding to run for the

board after some encouraging from Kamala.

So Jude starting with you, where would you
like to start within this first section?

Jude: I'm gonna start with
something that you said to me.


How effective this show is
telling NAIAs story as well.

Uh, she's not just this
sidekick supporting character.

Like she has her own, you can
see this own growth and the way,

well, let's put it this way.

She's not there just to
support Kamala Kamala.

Is there, you know, and supporting her
as if like it's her show just as much as

the other way around, um, in terms of.

The, not the interaction, but the
encouragement of running for the board,

you know, and, and, and those types of
things, even, even like, like, okay, so

like when they came out of the mosque
and she's doing the whole, the future is

here and the future is her kind of, kind
of stuff like that whole conversation.

If you just isolate that out, you would
think that NAIA was the main character.

And it's the story about her fight or
struggles, which was, uh, really cool.

I like that.

You, you, you teased that

Trey: out.


I went for the joke and I texted
you right after I watched it.

And I said, B plot, and my Marvel
studio shows, what is this?

And I was genuinely caught off guard
by how much I felt I was missing

that in the other Disney plus shows.

And to kind of explain a little bit
further on what it is I'm getting at

and I'm welcoming any kind of pushback.

Cuz I have been like just running
through this criteria to see if any

of the other shows reach this, but.

So many of the Disney plus shows feel so
laser focused on the story, the problem

at hand, where with this one, it is
something that is pertinent to the themes

that they're exploring with miss Marvel.

But as you said, it stands on its own.

And so the closest, I think we
can get to is the boat plot line

in Falcon and the winter soldier.

But even then it was
from Sam's perspective.

We were seeing that outskirts of the
story through what it was doing to

Sam, but this is truly NAIAs story.

And I think what makes that special,
other than the importance of the

storyline, which I'm sure we'll get into.

Is if these shows are about like, okay,
here's this hero that is going to save the

day they have this certain group or this
population that they're trying to save.

And we know it's important to them,
but this show taking the time to

show stories like NAIA makes it
feel that much more important.

And so it is wonderful storytelling.

And the thing that I meant when I
said, okay, it's, it's pertinent to

the themes that they're exploring.

I love that conversation in the bathroom
where NAIA says, until I put the hijab

on, I felt like I didn't have a purpose.

And now I finally feel
like I get to be me.

And so that's obviously paralleling what
Kamala is going through with her, trying

to find identity within her costume,
within her new, uh, film superpowers.

And so it is.

Best example.

I think of what I talk about where
superhero stories are relatable

stories taken to the extreme.

You have the extreme with Kamala going
through the fantastical side and you

have NAIA dealing with the everyday side.

And I love that it's NAIA, who
is being almost, not necessarily

the mentor, but being the guiding
light for Kamala within that scene.

Mm-hmm well, and

Jude: you see it in Kamala as
well, that, that culturally foot

in both worlds, the, the, the,
the connection she has with Bruno.

But then the infatuation head over heels,
uh, with come around and there's a similar

interest there that is not just, I'm a
junior, you're a senior or in high school,

attractive, you know, there, there's also
a cultural, similar cultural interest.

And so in terms of the Bollywood movies
and stuff like that, and, and more Bruno,

he just he's, he's trying his best.


Like he's, he's like, I like Bollywood,
you know, um, I, I like this and I'm

like, like, what are you talking about?

Trey: Didn't he, didn't he say it
was pleasing to me which is the

weirdest way to describe a movie.

Jude: yeah.

You know, so, so even there, not just the,
the identity of like, oh, who am I there?

I mean, there is this identity
of like, what, which I'm, I'm

sure, you know, I'm many people.

Various cultural differences have
that experience of like I'm here in

the us and my family's culturally
one thing, but friends in this

is culturally something else.

And I kind of feel I have a
foot in both worlds, um, and

you can shift back and forth.

Um, and you, and you see Kamala
doing that between these two.

Love interest, maybe they're high school.

So I, I didn't wanna use love, very
crush, interest, very crush interest,

maybe better, very, very loosely.


Trey: and I think that's what hit me
so much in terms of why representation

is important in this episode,
this is 100% an immigrant story.

I mean, Nokia's line, I'm too white
for some or too ethnic for others.

And I feel like I'm in
this sucky in between.

And I think that's 100%, it's kind
of like what, what sh Chi tackled

a little bit, you know, he wasn't,
he didn't quite feel American.

He didn't feel quite, you know,
in tune with his father's origins.

And so he was in this middle place
and that's where he had to conquer.

And so we're seeing that here.

And I think, you know, just to put
the, the hammer on it again, it's

brilliant storytelling that they
have put knock yet in this place.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, and it's so funny to me.


So a little bit on a personal
side, you know, and, and where

like, I feel like I identify with
it and why I pull, tease that out.

So like we're cousins, my mom, your rant.

Trey: Surprise.

Jude: you remember?

Where's your that's.

Why do you have a British accent?

You're Pakistani.


Trey: I make that joke.


I wonder how many people who are
listening are just now realizing

we cousins for the first time.

Jude: yeah.


so, okay, so, so we're cousins, right?

My mom's your aunt, your mom's my aunt.

Um, so we have grandparents that are
the same great grandparents and great

grandparents from Mexico, from my dad's
side, Irish, English, and French Canadian.


And so, you know, and I I've always
felt like I've had this kind of

foot in two worlds for that reason.

And I remember in my early to
mid twenties, one time memo

said to me, and I forgot exactly
the context and how it came up.

A memo said to me, don't worry.

You're still my middle
little Mexican grand baby.

I'm in my early to mid twenties.

And I'm like, I didn't know, this was
a question like, like, I didn't even

know this was, this was ever in question.

Like what, wait, what, um,
Like, I, I never felt like I

needed to do that reassurance.

Um, but, but I, I guess I did so, or at
least my mom thought I did at the time

so, yeah, but it was just like, but,
but it was one of those things where it

was like, yeah, this kind of foot in,
in both worlds on, on that and that, and

that's um, so it's not quite the same is,
is what Kamala and NA is going through,

but it's definitely why something stood
out to me, you know, in, in, in that

Trey: sense.

And I think that foothold on both worlds.

Makes them equally adept at pursuing
the mosque board, because I mean,

they're quick to point out about
how the woman's side of the mosque

is just so run down the audio.

System's terrible to the point that it's
causing disruptions and the lecture.

Uh, I didn't even catch it on the first
time because there's a scene where they're

like washing their hands before going into
the, the main room and something falls.

And I was like, what was that?

And it wasn't until later that I realized,
oh, that's literally the walls falling

apart from just how run down it was.

And so I like that it sets her on
that path to wanting to run for

the board to help, you know, a
little bit more equal treatment.

It's I love that.

Eventually we get to that scene
where, well, where it starts is Kamala

is like encouraging her to do it.

She's like, no, no, you
know, my uncle's doing it.

I don't wanna, I don't
wanna get in on that.

And it.

Yeah, I think this is the
final scene of that storyline.

In this episode, it ends with
her talking to Kamala's dad,

swaying him to vote for her.

And I like how effective she was in
doing, or at least proving her case

that she's taking this seriously.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, and it's interesting cuz in my
second watch, it made me wonder about

this show and the risks they were taking
marvels taking, and it could be a risk

and it can't, and it might not be a risk.

And it's really one of those sayings.

Well, let's put it this way.

Uh, this show is a text, right?

Just like.


And there's whether it's a book show,
any kind of media, think of it as a text.

And there's the intended reading from the
creator, author, showrunner, whatever.

But then there's also the reading
that we have and participating with

the work and the art and what do
I bring to it and take out of it.

And so I remember watching it and
wondering like, oh, wow, are they, are

they challenging the faith of Islam?


And, and maybe bringing delight
perceptions of Islam, right.

And, and treatment of women,
like, is that what they're doing?

And that's, you know, for Disney Marvel,
that could be kind of risky, but at

the same time, like there, the second
time through I'm watching, it is like,

I don't think so, because for me, I'm
looking at it and it's like, clearly

the relationship they're shutting up
with, you know, Kamala and her dad.

Is one of tremendous love and care.


And NA's choice of wearing
the hijab and stuff like that.

Whereas which means you go
back to the mosque, right.

And there's like, oh, look at this area.

This is where we're at.

And this is the it's falling apart.

You wonder where you can look at it
is like they don't care about women.


And that's one way to read it.

But the second time through, it's
more of like, no, that's not the case.

It's, it's one of those.

It feels like they're showing like
how separate those worlds are.

Like, like they wouldn't know because you
don't have a voice, you know, and, and

on the board, or you're not in that area
of the mosque and there's a separate,

you have no idea, you know what I mean?

Um, until you really, you know, you might,
it's one of those things, like, even as a

teacher, Have it with my students, right.

Unless I am aware of their experiences as
a student and what they're going through,

you know, and I consider those things.

I'm just taking my best guesses off
of perceptions that they're happy, you

know, and, and things are going well.

And, and so, so it was interesting how,
in one way, I thought it was like, oh man,

this feels like they're taking a risk.

And then the other way, it's like,
they're not really taking a risk.

They're really portraying that, that
separation and showing that, yeah, there's

still kind of a healthy respect because
like, he didn't really chastise Kamala in

Akia for speaking out, you know, during
prayer time in the lecture, it was just

like, Hey, don't speak during the lecture.

Like, you know what I mean?

He didn't raise his voice.

He didn't there.

And so there was a, a dignity
and respect there, you know?

And, and, and so, so I really
liked how they portrayed that.

Trey: You know, I'm, I'm glad you
highlighted that because that was, what

did he say is like, oh, you know, thank
you for showing us the importance of

having your voice heard perhaps next time.

Not during my lecture though.

So it's like 100% there
is that healthy respect.

She does have pride in that faith.

It's just showing the importance
of having that seat at the table to

be able to have that representation
and be like, Hey, you know what?

These are the problems we have.

This is how we can move
forward to make things better.

So I, I really appreciate
that storyline a lot.

And to bring it back
one more time to that.

The, is it emo bark wherever
they, they are, or, or whenever

Nokia is trying to convince USF,
uh, Kamala's dad to vote for her.

You know, we talked
about it whenever we did.

The Dr.

Strange review where it's that
filmmaking technique, right?

Where you have a character and
then the camera just like follows

them as a perspective shift.


To show how a person has been or visually
depicting how a person has changed.

I love that they did that for USEF.

You can see the moment where his
vote has changed visually and it,

the camera flips to you to the
point where you see the uncle who's

running as well, just out of focus.

And he's like, what, what was that?

So I love how they played with
that mechanic visually, just

to have him back in focus.

Jude: yes.


Like that was, that was really
what the camera work in.

This is amazing.

I'm gonna get a little bit off topic,
but it is pertinent cuz it just came up.

Cuz you know, I mentioned in the
last episode they didn't have

to do the locker scene that way.

Like from the other side of the
locker, you know, with the locker

separation, there was another
shot and I'm forgetting it now.

But my note basically is I love how.

They visually show the walls.

People in particular teenagers put up
with each other with, uh, with adults,

with, with each other, but they're
with, they're using the camera and

the blocking to visually like they are
separated, um, by the physical space.

I think it was early on Kamala and Bruno
after she did her little I'm confident

dance through the halls and they made up
a Bruno and they're, and they're walking,

but they go through separate doors.

And so like, it's little things like
that little techniques of like these,

this like, and manipulating the space
to show this separation for even

as close as they are, there's this.

And we all do it.

It's a human thing, you know, and, and the
younger you are, I think it's even harder.

Um, but to have that, or be
willing to be intimate in terms

of being vulnerable and opening.

You know, um, and, and so it's like,
oh, this is my best friend, but you

really, you know, and you're that age.

You're still kind of
guarded a lot of times.

And, and so they use that
physical space like that it's

really well done and really well

Trey: thought out.

So I just looked it up real quick.

That way we can properly credit this
episode was directed by Mira Manan.

And last week was a deal in bill law,
which if I'm not mistaken, they are the

guys who directed bad boys for life,
which is one of the last movies that came

out of, uh, 20, 20 before the pandemic.

And I remember specifically, cuz I
had no interest in the movie, but the

reception was, this is way better than
a sequel to this series deserves to be.

And they were crediting those directors.

So like this, seeing the work that's
been done so far makes me wanna go

back and watch bad boys for life.


Jude: I'm gonna add that
to my list for sure now.

Well, and, and it's one of those
things where I think there's

three different directors.

Each getting two episodes

Trey: for miss Marvel.


It looks like there is a
deal in Beal Mira, Manon.

Charin obeyed Chino, and yeah.

So like you said three different
directors or three sets I should say.


Jude: And, and, and they get,
they're getting two, two each.

So no I'm in, I'm gonna go
watch bad boys for life now.

Cuz that's well, cause, cause
like I said, I, I wasn't like,

I like the first bad boys.

I don't even remember if
I seen the second one.

Um, which is weird.

If you look at my letter box,
I have like 1500 movies viewed.

Like it's just love watching movies, man.

If, if, if they're directing it the
way they're directing this, I'm in

completely, that alone will be worth it.

Trey: So I'm gonna use what you
just talked about because I do, I

remember this senior talking about
that uses the filmmaking to show.

Bruno and Kamala being on separate paths.

So the next section is hero training,
which is going to be the section where

we detail the newfound confidence that
Kamala has in the opening, the training

montage that they go through as she's
trying to develop her powers, as well as

the storylines featuring Bruno, where he
gets accepted into Caltech while juggling

with some of the jealous of Comran.

So playing off what you just said though,
the thing that is, there's two things.

The, I love the way you depicted,
how they're going in separate paths,

because it's a reverse of what
you highlighted last week with the

lockers, where he had to cross over
demonstrating that he's on her side.

And so the fact that this episode
features them kind of straining

that friendship just a little bit.

I think that's brilliant.

And the other thing that is so
strong about this opener with

Kamala is one expectation wise.

I had no idea where they were going
with the way they ended in episode

one, where she just got in trouble.

So to start this one on such a high note,
where she bursts through the school,

and it's a reverse of how she was in the
first episode is special because within

this same episode, they specifically
call out how, Hey, it really seems

like this power is coming from within
you and not necessarily from the BELE.

It's almost demonstrating how, like this
confidence was in her from the beginning,

because even though we know she's riding
high from the captain Marvel competition,

it eventually ends up where it's like,
oh no, no, Zoe's the one who's getting

all the accolades from that because
she came in contact with the hero.

So even though nobody has
perceptually changed their view

on Kamala, she feels different.

And so I loved how that is.

I don't know.

I don't wanna say foreshadowed, but you
can feel that in the way this episode

opens know what's gonna be really

Jude: unique.

What's that?

And interesting is Peter Parker
Spiderman homecoming in civil war, right.

Peter Parker and civil war
says I couldn't play football

before, so I can't do it now.


You know, he, the whole showing up
to the party is Spider-Man and, and,

and like, he's very like, no, I'm
not gonna take advantage of this.

You know, that's a very, very grounded
down to earth, mature, responsible

thing to do of the high school kid,
especially in the day and age, where

in the day and age where I'm so old

Trey: so I heard what
these kids are doing.

Jude: okay.

You wanna talk about a reality check?

So I'm flipping through these little,
these reels, you know, and it was like,

what, what is something you do now
that you never would've thought you

would've done when you were younger?

And then it switches to somebody else?

You know, somebody says that
switches to somebody else and

looking right into the camera.

And they're like, if you would've
told me in my twenties that I would

be 40 flipping through videos on
my phone, short videos on my phone

to ignore my own mental health.

I would've said you're crazy immediately.

I'm looking at it.

I'm like, I can't, why
are you calling me out?

I like turned off throat now the whole,
the point of that, and why I say that

is like, is like, she's a junior.

And, and like, she's such a typical kid so
far, and it makes sense to, to have that.

I feel like a nobody now I'm somebody.

And my quote, unquote, rival,
so to speak is getting the

credit that I should be getting.

And so I'm really curious how
they pull that through and that

temptation to be like, no I'm
Ironman or no, you know what I mean?

That kind of have that moment.

I miss Marvel because it is so
tempting, you know, the kid, because

to do that and not just because
like, oh, you're a young kid, but I

mean, how many followers do you have?

How many views do you have?

How many likes, like we're in that
culture that, that, that validation,

you know, is, is, is there.

And when you all of a sudden do
something worthy of that validation

and your quote and your arch nemesis,
so to speak is getting that credit.

That takes one.

Hello, mature person, not to.

Be like, okay, I gotta keep this secret.

You, you know what I mean?

Um, and so I'm really curious of if,
what, what they're gonna do with that,

Trey: you know, I'm so glad you've
drawn that Spider-Man homecoming

and civil war comparison, because
I mean, this straight up feels like

homecoming felt in the authenticity of
these kids and what it would be like

for them to deal with these powers.

And you're right.

That Kamala has demonstrated
being that typical kid so far.

And I like that she, she's kind of right
there so far with Peter Parker in that

like, no, I know I shouldn't do this.

Like imagine if the person who saved
her was, you know, public about it, how

many followers they would've gotten.

And Bruno's like, well, that's why
secret identities are important.



So he's like trying to, cause he
can see that she's being tempted

by it, but she hasn't quite crossed
into that, that revelation just yet.

So it's definitely on her mind as well.

She understands it, I guess, at least
internally, um, But it is interesting

that outside of Spider-Man are there,
is there anyone else who really holds

their secret identity that close?

I guess maybe the Eternals,
but it wasn't necessarily them.

Just the fact that they
were super all together.

Cause king out there making movies

Jude: yeah.

The Eternals are the only ones that
come to mind moon night, I guess.

Yeah, but he's not public.

The very public, the way Spiderman
and already nightlight is

Trey: I, I want, you know, we
always talk about this all the time.

Like, let's get a perspective of just the
everyday person as a Disney plus show.

I would love to see what the
everyday person would come up

with for the names of the HEROs.


Not necessarily like the captain Americas
and the Ironmans who are well known, but

some of the lesser known like until in
game, what did people refer to Scott Lang

Jude: I don't know.

I don't remember.

I don't know if the
public called man, man.

I think it was the, that
man was all around PI.

Trey: So we got, we got nightlight
and we've got night monkey so far.


So eventually we do get that
wonderful training montage.

And I immediately thought of you whenever
they went through it, because so often

you, I think you, if you go all the way
back to our Daredevil episodes, I think

you were the first person to illustrate
that idea of how they're leveling up

as you're going along through the story
as a way to demonstrate like, kind of

like that escalation from here to here.

I love that it's almost a literal leveling
up as Kamala's learning how to use those

hard lights to step higher and higher.

But I with, I will say it is funny and it
just, it speaks to the kid nature of her.

I love how she was failing
at shorter distances and kept

trying at higher distances.

well, if it didn't work from the safe
space, let me go a little bit higher.

Jude: right.

But what I loved about
that training montage.

Is how I think, I think how effective
they, they did in terms of like, cuz

we've seen training montages, you know,
I mean we've watched Tony stark do it.

We've watched.


Trey: add that to the bracket list idea.


Jude: yes.

Um, who else?

So we've seen him do it.

We've seen Atman do it right with the
keyhole and all those other things.

Did Keith Bishop have a training montage?

Not really.

She kind of was like, you

Trey: know, her training montage was the
credits that demonstrated all her trophy.

Jude: right.

Toby McGuire and his Spiderman
had a training montage, um, you

know, Andrew Garfield and his
Spiderman had a training montage.

So in other words, like we've seen
it like, oh, I had these new powers

and I gotta kind of figure it out.

And so we've seen it before, but, but for,
I don't know, I can't put my finger on it.

Why did this one feel different?

I, I, I, I actually know why between
iron man and this one, because iron and

iron man, he was like testing it out.

And it was very scientific, you know,
10%, 5% one, you know, and those types of

things and very scientific kind of thing.

Whereas Kamala was just very playful
and there's this nervousness it's

like watching a kid learn how
to ride a bike the first time

or skateboard the first time.

And it's like, you know,
there's this nervousness.

And once they get it though, it's
like, oh, I can do anything now.

You know, it's like, no, you just kind
of barely learn how to ride a bike.

You can balance now but, you
know, and, and so they feel

like they can do anything.

And so.

So I think it was the playfulness
with, with how they did it, but it,

it was definitely felt different.

It was just, it, it felt like a
training montage that I've never

seen before, but it was like,
I've seen tons of these before.

Trey: If I could take a stab
at what you're getting at.

I think it's a training montage in a
world where superheroes are established.

So it has that air of, okay,
well maybe I have super string.

So she goes and does pushups.

She's like, okay, no, that's not it.

And then you see her running.

So maybe she was training
for like super speed.

No, I don't have that.

And then she already reveals like,
well, I tried to turn small, so

clearly I don't have ANMP power
. And so it's like, it has that.

Kid like worldview of, of being granted,
something fantastical that you don't

quite understand yet, which makes the
revelation where she sees Bruno playing

crash, Bandicoot so much funnier that
she's drawing inspiration for video games.


On how to start accessing her power.



But, but that's, the

Jude: other thing is like, is like
with Tony stark, he's building it.


So there's this intentionality
and thought behind it.

This is truly just a discovery.

Trey: I will say this.

Cause I know you haven't seen it
without getting too much into spoilers.

There is something very similar in Shaza.


So that, that was the
other one that it made.

It reminded me of, uh, but I think
I, I get what you're, you're getting

at as far as why it feels different.

And I think what's also different about
it is how much it shows her getting.

And like, they didn't need to like that
scene where she, like, she's using the

hard light and she falls like face first
and like almost skids a little bit.

You're seeing consequences
of her trying this.

It's not that like, oh, I've got powers.

I can do anything.

She is like putting in the work
and pain and sweating tears for it.


So the


Jude: training montage that just popped
in my head with Sam Wilson with, um, the

Trey: shield, the shield, one of
the best scenes in that series.

And I

Jude: love that you brought up about
the kidding hurt and the consequences,

because again, a very typical kid thing,
what I just said about now, I got this

now where it's like, you're a superhero.

If that's, or, you know, if
that's what you're gonna do,

you need to train, it's a craft.

You have to cultivate your craft, right.

Just cuz you know how to use your powers.

There's this creativity, right.

That, that comes with it of like.

Well, not just the creativity,
but a lot of stuff that, that

comes with it, that, that you get
out of training and experience.

And Bruno comes up to her and is
like, Hey, it's, it's time to train.

She's like, nah, I'll do
I'll train some other time.

It's like, no, what?

No, like you need like, and I'm thinking
that in my head, I was like, no, you

need to train like this isn't you
can't go running around using those

powers without, with like training.

It's like any skill or craft.

Um, but it's, again, it's very cute thing.

Ah, I got I'll put it off to it later.

I got this

Trey: study for a test.

I think the best example.

the best example.

I think I, I can go back to Ironman.

The difference of the, okay.

I have these skills now
versus the training.

Obba when he didn't solve the freezing
problem, like Tony stark had put in

the work, so he understood what to do.

So I get what you're you're.

Explaining there.

And so, you know, I do wanna say one more
thing, cuz you did talk about how like,

okay, no, you need to do the training.

You need to like, what are you doing?

You need to do this now.

There's wonderful foreshadowing where
once they're in that attic and she's

kind of like showing off that power
again and she, I forgot what it was.

She sets off a series of
events where Bruno almost

gets, uh, something VA on him.

So she pushes another way and
she's like, look, I saved you.


Only cuz you almost killed me first
I thought that it was a wonderful

foreshadowing for what we eventually
get, uh, at the end of this episode.

so of course we'll, we'll pick that
up later, but I think we can go ahead

and move into our next most important
topic, which is simply family history.

So within this episode, we've got
a lot going on where we have that

wonderful dinner scene, where they
are explaining to Taisha about their

family history, with the partition,
how their family came to be and how

they immigrated to the United States.

Uh, we have the story of Kamala's
great grandmother with the train

and almost missing it and people
not being quite sure how she was

able to get back to her family.

And of course, all the scenes in
eed, mu bark with the Aluma aunties.


Jude: love that.

I love

Trey: that.

So Jude starting with you this
time, where would you like

to start within this section?

Jude: All of it.


Trey: oh, I did forget to mention
this also can be where we talk about

come run and the, the crush that
Kamala has on him, as well as the

unfortunate revelation by the end.


Jude: so, well, I was gonna say, I mean,
I jokingly say all of it cuz uh, family

history is really fascinating to me.

And in a couple of ways, uh, one
is, and this is more my experience.

So I don't, I'm, I'm kind of
projecting out, but it's like when I

was younger, I didn't really pay that
close attention to family history.

And as I've gotten older, I've,
I've asked more questions.

I've gotten more interested.

I haven't dove into it yet.

And, and part of it is, cause I feel
like I would be reinventing the wheel

specifically from my dad's side.

Um, I'm not sure if any on my mom's
side is, has, has done this yet, but

getting into like the ancestry or
genealogy, you know, dot the

or genealogy or something like that.

And really just kind of putting
together that family tree, um,

because there's, there's this element.

And, and it's interesting that I talk
that I, you know, I even talk with my

students with this about sometimes,
uh, sometimes about this whole like.

You know, second death being the
last time someone says your name

right after a physical death, or,
you know, on a, on a smaller scale,

let's say I didn't return to my
place of work next year as a teacher.

Well, last year I had only seniors.

So those people are graduating
off who interacted with me

regularly in terms of students.

I had some interactions with other
grade levels, but pretty much, you know,

two class that class is graduated off.

I graduate one more class off.

I'm gonna face a year in the yearbook.

You know, like, like, you know,
if a teacher teaches all freshmen

and then leaves, no other freshman
class has them, you know, and

once they, you know, and once.

That freshman class cycles out.

They're kind of a name, a yearbook,
and, and it's almost the same

way in my head with family.

And, and I loved watching Kamala,
you know, have that interest,

start to ask those questions.

Tell me about, you know, tell me
this story, tell me what happened.

I want to know because it's just as much
of even, even though, you know, her,

her mom is, is, is wanting to hide it.

It is a much of it is just much about
who she is and, and the connection to.

I think a deeper connection to, to
her family and, and her culture.

And, and so that's, that's why
I say like all of it, just that

digging in is just awesome.

Trey: You know, so, you know, preport with
thought and I talked about the importance

of representation, not only for what
it can do in seeing yourself on screen,

but what it can do as far as educating
people, even outside of that culture.

And the biggest thing for me was
learning about the partition, you

know, just through my own ignorance.

It was something that I
was not familiar with.

And I found myself reading about it in
the Marvel studio, subreddits, as people

were linking to it with information, uh,
F you know, I watched a video that I'll

link in the show notes that, you know,
detail just kind of a broad overview of,

you know, what happened in India as it
was divided into these different religious

sex and how it split up families.

And what struck me as so hard hitting on
the second time, because the first time it

was like, wow, this is really interesting.

You can feel that there's history here,
but on the second view, realizing how

impactful that partition was for the
family, but it was so commonplace for

them that they were telling the story
as though like, oh, Amir and Kamala

have heard this a million times.

They know how it ends.

They were reciting what their dad
was gonna say, but it's, it's tragic.

And so like, that's, I think that
contrast of how commonplace it was

for them within their family origins,
but how devastating the reality was.

And you could see the
mom still carries it.

Obviously there, that side of the
family's impacted the most by it.

I don't know.

I just, it it's this,
this show's powerful.

I think.

And that small little scene of the
family as they were just sharing their

stories to this newcomer, who's being
married into the family with Taisha.

It's it's one of my favorite scenes, I
think, of the Disney plus show so far.

Mm-hmm mm-hmm

Jude: well, and it's, it's interesting.

You, you, you highlight that, cuz
it's something I talked with, uh, my

students about today kind of, I kind
of more planning seeds next week.

I'll dive into it a little bit more.

Um, but when I talk to 'em about family
and, and talk to 'em about if they

decide one day to get married and how
so much of their own, you know, in terms

of family history, so much of their own
view of family or any of us comes from

and what a family is and should be.

Um, and what I say is, is cuz
there's an element of, there's

such a variety of family.

So you have your ideas of what family
is that comes from your experience.

Um, but you could have a Terra,
unfortunately you could have a

terrible experience growing up a
family and, and you get the idea of

like, this is not what it should be.

A family should be this and not
this, you know, um, And you take

that into this relationship.

And, and, and when you have that
combining or melding of families

through marriage, you're, you're
starting something new, but I'm, I'm

bringing as a person, I'm bringing
those experiences with me, you know?

And, and so to ask those questions,
to hear those stories and want to know

about those stories, I think is very
important and having an interest and,

and having an interest in the person
is also, you know, knowing their family

of origin and their family history.

And, and cuz it, it tells you
something as to why people do what

they do and act the way they act.

And so it's it's yeah, it
was, it was really, like I

said, really, really powerful.

Cause you know, she doesn't
really like Bonjovi she just

Trey: to

Jude: get along with the mom.

Trey: Because this is like, oh, okay.


I thought I was about to say,
wait, what do you mean the mom?

Doesn't like, I see

Jude: what you mean.



This is, this is like, we're getting
about to get married, throw five

years into the marriage and she'd be
like, oh, I don't really like Bonjovi

Trey: I only knew the one song.

I'm more Def Leppard.

Oh man.

Well sticking in that same dinner scene.

I do wanna highlight the story that
is eventually told because you know,

we talked about it last week with
there's some connection to the Beal

and Kamala's powers that, you know, the
mom is warier because she, she shuts

it down again within this episode where
Kama was like, you were the one who

was telling me to find my own story.

And she was like, yes, but not this one.

So of course the story is if I'm
remember it correctly, Sauna is

Kamala's mother, who is the child
that is separated from the family.

And the great grandmother.

Aisha is the one that disappeared.

That is the owner of the Bengal that
eventually gets passed on to Kamala

mm-hmm my interpretation of what
that story is, is that sauna, the, the

Kamala's grandmother gets separated as
a child and claims that she followed

the stars to get to her family.

Again, I'm reading that
as it was the hard light.

Well, we've now come to known as the hard
light that that was somehow the guiding

force that brought that child back to
the train and reunited with their family.

And it's setting up, I think,
a very potential heartbreak in

the future that if this is the,
the story that it ends up being.

Aisha was the one to help
continue this family.


She bears the burden of all the shame,
which whew man, as, as, as much as that,

that, that nucleus of them at the dinner
table is talking about the importance

of their origin and the importance
of like what it means to understand

where you come from to have that
miscommunication also thrown into the mix.

I'm very curious to see where they're
gonna go with this entire storyline.

Well, that

Jude: story made me wonder who
used the bangle because my first

thought was Kamala's mom used the
bangle to get back to the train,

Trey: but then Kamala's mom
wouldn't have been born.


Jude: I was thinking Kamala's
mom was the little kid.

No, that was the grandmother.

Trey: That was the grandmother.

Um, the ones that ends up
getting to FaceTime call.


So her mother, her the
one that potentially

Jude: used.

Um, okay, so I got that
wrong but, but, okay,

Trey: well it's still your first reaction.

I didn't mean to cut you off.


Jude: No, no, no, no.

But I'm saying my first reaction E
person, regardless, my first thought

was like, oh, the little kid used the
bangle, but now I'm wondering, did the

adult use the bangle and help them?

I don't know.

I'm gonna have to rewatch it.


Trey: as if you weren't
already planning to do so.

I know.


So I'm really excited about that.

And, and, you know, it carries
over because eventually when

they get Tobar, one of Kamala's
objectives is to visit with the

illumines and try and find out more.

Cuz obviously she's tried going
through her mom, her mom's

not gonna open up about it.

So she'll go to, uh, the sisters
and I love the progression of

like I heard she had an affair.

I heard she had multiple affairs.

I heard she killed a guy.


I love how it just kept getting more
and more judgemental and outlandish,

which I think is why they have earned
the title of Illumina on teams.

mm-hmm mm-hmm

Jude: gossip like that is so wrong.

But we do it, people do it
and I'd be lying if I said I

didn't participate sometimes.

So why I'm so quiet.

I admit there's times where it's
just like, oh, I heard this.

And it's just like, you know,
uh, this is just hearsay.

It's like, and then in the back of my
mind, it's like, what are you doing?

really, what'd the person
say, like, it's dumb.

Trey: We all give into

Jude: it.

We really that's how that curiosity.

Trey: I was gonna say, that's how
Kamala, uh, enticed Bruno to go.

I, because when that scene first happened,
which was like, come on, even if there's

gonna be some hot gossip, I thought that
it was because Kamala knows that Bruno

likes being a part of that family and like
getting into all the details, but then

it clicks like, no it's because they're
gonna try and find out about the bank.

mm-hmm mm-hmm

Jude: So good.

You know

Trey: what I go ahead.

I just realized we completely
forgot to highlight any of the

Bruno stuff in the previous section.

Jude: that's okay.


He's look, Bruno has clearly
been put on the bench.

Trey: You mean Brian?



Jude: sorry.

Brian has clearly been put on the bench.

Um, and you know, he can contribute a
little bit, but over, off to the side.

Um, but I do love the storytelling that
how we're getting pieces of that family

history from grandmother, this, oh, I
can't say, you know, the Illuminati, the,

the Illuminati, the illumines, you know,
when you're getting little pieces and

how they're slowly feeding us this story.

You know, and, and, and, and
putting this pieces together.

I do really

Trey: enjoy that.

It's interesting too, because so much of
the theme so far is the emergent theme so

far is like finding your story, finding
who it is you wanna be in this world.

And the north star isn't even truly a
north star because it's being watered down

through these other people, which I think
is like highlighting the importance of it

being you to, to make those discoveries
on your own, because otherwise it is

just somebody else's story until you've,
you've made an active participation in it.

Mm-hmm . So the other thing I
think we need to tackle within this

section is clearly the come on stuff.

And you know what, I'll start
here before I get into what I was

going to say, because obviously
Kamala has a crush on him.

She eventually gets to have a lot
of connections with him, where they

start talking about Bollywood and they
start talking about music and they

clearly they're hitting it off mm-hmm

And so they end up having their
date, her coming back home, I

might have gotten the sequence
outta order, her coming back home.

That was from the,

Jude: that was from the party,

Trey: right?

The dance sequence where the lights
all pink and she's dancing and happy.

I loved it.


What stuck out to me and maybe, and this
I, this is probably recency biased, cause

I'm sure we can find other examples, but
what was so beautiful about that scene is

I feel like I've been conditioned where
a character will have that sweet bliss.

Only to be like, oh crap.

The fact that they let Kamala live in
that bliss for the scene was perfect.

Like, it was just completely
joyous that she was excited.

She ends up, she ends up in
the bed and you see the text in

the covers, which is brilliant.


I love that.

They gave her that before, especially
knowing where this is going to end up

with the revelation that it is her cousin.

Mm-hmm wait, I'm glad upset her cousin.

I'm fairly certain.


Jude: is.

No, that was a cover for her brother, but,

Trey: and I'm gonna double check this.

I cuz I went and read, uh, a
recap from Marvel of the episode.


Why are you?

Jude: Okay, go ahead.

Trey: and the woman that, okay.

I guess this is up for debate then
because the woman in the scene where she

collapses at the dinner table and she
sees someone reaching through and then she

wakes up with her family, all concerned
about her mm-hmm briefly has shown.

And then I believe that is
also the woman in the car.

With Comran where he said,
Hey, this is my mother.

I'm interpreting.

That is Aisha, the great grandmother.

So I think there's a relation there.

I know it was the cover, which I
thought ended up being the irony

that they ended up being related.

But I, you know, I guess it's up for
debate cause that that's how I interpreted

Jude: it.


I'm watching it again.

Trey: I'm looking up the, uh, the recap
on so I can read what I saw.



So this is according to

At the very end, speeding off to
safety, a woman in the backseat says

she's excited to finally meet her and
to commonly surprise it's the same

woman she's been seeing in her visions.

So the X factor here is they
haven't clarified who the woman is.


But given that, we just learned
the history of the, the family.

I'm I'm willing to bet it is
the great-grandmother because

she mysteriously disappeared.

Jude: I'm not sure.

But okay.

We'll see.

we'll see.

Trey: Anyway, all, all I was getting to,
I love, they gave her that moment, the

joy, especially where we know it ends
up, regardless if it's family or not, it

ends up that it's not as teenage crush
between each other, as we thought it was.

There is some ulterior motives here.

Mm-hmm , which leads me to what I
originally wanted to bring up everything

evolving him is a whole heck of a lot less
sweet on the second subsequent watches.

Jude: yeah.


I, I definitely agree with you on that
as a, as I think through, but see, at

the same time, I don't think it was,
is meant to be sweet necessarily.

Like, and the only reason I say
that is cuz we're seeing so much

through Kamala's eyes, you know?

And so it's like, and it's almost weird.

Like is there small hints of like.

A, I hate to say this, to use this term,
I'm going to the unreliable narrator,

you know, because like when he's walking
up and there's the, the graphic outline

and the fire and the 100 and the pluses,
you know, and all that, you know,

we're seeing through Kamala's eyes and
that, and that imagination and stuff.

And so, because it's all through
Kamala's point of view, it's like,

oh, this is awesome and sweet.

You know what I mean?

Whereas like when you do that second
watch and, and you're aware that

no, this is just Kamala's point
of view, then it's going to be

different than what he actually is.

Trey: I do see what you're
saying, because obviously it

is from her point of view, but.

It seemed very flirty in that diner.

Like it wasn't, it wasn't purely her
point of view because he was still like

participating in that conversation.


Where so far it's been very clear when
we're seeing the live action depictions

of Kamala's interpretations of reality.

Mm-hmm like, again with the, with
the family, like Kama, you're the

best and they're wearing shirts
with her face on it and dancing.


That was still I think, rooted in reality.


So I, but I, I do see what you mean about
like all the hearts and all the fawning

with all the visual flares, but yeah.

So, okay.


On that note, on that note
though, I do wanna bring this

up, thanks to Ben dot Mattie in
the discord, you know, last week.

And even when we reacted to the trailer,
you were talking about how you don't

know if Kamala's ADHD, but you were
feeling that representation on screen.

Somebody actually asked, uh,
Bishop Kayley, the creator

of the show on Twitter.

And they said this about that.

I'm supposed to be offline,
but this is V important to me.

Some ADHD friends sent me this,
so I'm popping up to respond.

I don't know if KK has it in the
MCU or comic cannon, but I have it.

And it affects every aspect of my life.

I'm glad you can see yourself
in her, in the sh and the show.

So even if canonically or whatever,
Kamala is an ADHD, it is very

center at the showrunners writing

Jude: in my head Canon.

That's a yes.


Cuz it's just, cuz there's so much and
I'm not, and I'm not saying that it's

like, oh, if you watch Kamala con and
you don't know, or you don't have ADHD

that this is an illustration of it.


Not saying that, but there's so
much stuff that I identify with

that when I'm younger and even now.

Of like the, in, in particular, in the
daydreaming, you know, I mean, there

there's other ways and other different
things that manifestation and, you

know, don't, we're not gonna get into
it in there, but it is one of those

things where it's like that alone.

It's like, oh yeah, like this.

Um, and it's not an inability to focus.

It's it's that?

Well, okay.

I'm trying to talk about this without
diving too far into it, but it it's

it's you hear, if you hear people
talk about a, a hyper focus, you

know, and, and some people think of
that means like, I am, I can look

at one thing and I am drawn to it.


And in terms of like hyperfocus,
myopic, just this one thing.

And whereas hyperfocus really means like,
everything grabs your attention, you know?

And, and which makes it easier to like,
get lost in your thoughts end Dayr,

you know, cuz you have that thought.

And all of a sudden there, you know,
and then within that daydream, you have

another thought and as that takes you over
to here and, and, and so it's so much,

and that's why I think that it really
identify with it on, on that, on that

Trey: way.


I, I thought it was worth
bringing up on the podcast again.

Thanks Ben dot Mattie for, for
sharing that screenshot of the tweet.

Uh, but as much as that has stuck out
to you, it was nice to get that, as you

said, personal head cannon confirmation.

All right.

Well, I think that's gonna wrap up
family history for now, which is gonna

bring us to our final, most important
topic, which is hard, lighter flight.

This is going to be the section in which
we detail Kamala's first true test as

a superhero, as we discover who the
boy leaning out the window, who has an

unfortunate fall, uh, and also give us
a, a chance to talk about the department

of defense control as they are integr.

Interrogating Zoe and eventually
chasing Kamala at the end.

I'm gonna start with me this time.

And I already kind of highlighted it when
we were talking about the hero training,

but it was important to me that they,
or it was notable to me that they had

that line of like, Hey, I saved you.

Well only cuz you almost killed me first
with Bruno and then have this moment

at the end where she saves the boy.

But she gets caught up in like
the superhero pose and almost

accidentally lets him fall again.

And she ends up saving him.

She kind of ping pongs him
down with the hard light.

And there's a lot of things that stood
out to me about this whole sequence one.

And again, I I'm, I'm open to
push back cuz I, I really do.

I'm relying on the hive of the internet to
help me here because my memory is bad, but

I can't think of a recent example where
a hero is helping of the regular civilian

in something quote unquote trivial.

I know a little boy falling out the
windows, not trivial, but when you also

have someone like Thanos snapping away,
half the universe, this feels like such

a low level or a street level problem.

Mm-hmm that adds to the like,
I don't wanna say realism of a

superhero show, but it's, it's nice.

It feels special.


And the fact that we get that
training montage, where we talked

about how it's slowly escalating,
she's not quite mastered it yet.

She is paying a price for it
because she is taking these falls.

Be truly tested with a
life or death situation.

Mm-hmm and not pull it off.

Cleanly is wonderful because you
have all the stakes of a traditional

superhero show where it's like,
okay, you know, they're gonna do it,

but you still have that like moment
whenever she accidentally lets ' fall.

And the outstretched
hand just barely misses.

And you still see like,
okay, she pulls this through.

Even if it wasn't a clean landing.


Jude: right.

Did the kid deserve to get hurt?


I mean, he stole the key of shoes.

Trey: What

Jude: do you mean karma?

The kid stole the key of shoes.

That's the, that the kid that she
saved, that's the one that stole his.

That's the one that stole Nikia
his shoes from the mosque.

How do you know that?

I saw it right now.

I gotta

Trey: verify, I saw that theory,
but since you brought it up, I was

waiting for you to explain to the
audience why you know that oh my

Jude: God.

I Google who stole NA Kia key of shoes.

The first.

Three things that come up is the Google
map, famous footwear GSW designer,

shoot warehouse, and new balance store.


Trey: what I love that in this
episode, you told that sweet

story about like the importance of
learning about family history and

how those stories live on through
us and why you should look into it.

But also screw that kid.

Yeah, no, it's the

Jude: kid.

It's it's it's the kid.

It's it's the kid she saved is the
one that's the, that kid is the

one who stole Kamala his shoes.

Mm-hmm I'm not saying
he should have died.

I'm just saying, you know, a
little bit of injury isn't,

you know, goes a long way.

Trey: so, well, I.

I don't know where to go from so,
you know, and, and on the topic of

mistreating kids, let's switch over to
agent Clery, who is interrogating Zoe dim

Jude: is this dude, is this mistreatment

I'm gonna defend NAIA here.

Trey: She had some issues.


All right.

They were cool.

. So we talked about it last week, where
there was a potential for the, in tag of

the department of defense control, seeing
the video of Kamala out of NGS con and

you know, being like, okay, we gotta bring
this girl in I've and I think I settled.

It should have been in the.

If they were gonna come back to it
this quickly in the very next episode,

just put it part of the episode.

I don't know why it needed to be an tag.

Jude: Yeah.

I'm with you too.

It didn't.

I was so hopeful that this
was gonna be an awesome tag.

And we talked about it.

Yeah, no like you, could've not shown that
and that would've had no impact whatsoever

on them showing up in episode two mm-hmm
like, like episode two, you wouldn't

have to change a single thing and not
show that in tag or put it another way.

If I didn't actually watch the in tag
because I'm trained to not have an tag.

After the first episode, it
wouldn't have affected my

Trey: viewing experience.

Or imagine if it was the cold open of
this episode before we get the confidence

of her struting through the high school.

Like yeah.

That, that sets the tone for
what's gonna happen in this

episode more than the in tag.



Like we said, there's a reason we make
the podcast, but you know, I, I did

wanna highlight man, agent Clery is so
good at getting those kids to talk, man.

Like he like with Ned where
he was like, dude, I've half

my guys are guys in the chair.

And then he gets like Ned to be like, oh
yeah, I help Spider-Man and this and that.

And so on and so forth.

He's like, okay, so you do the
way that he plays to Zoe is like,

dude, we're we love your videos.

We all sing the popcorn song.


And then she starts gushing about it.

It's it's slimy in the best way is
the only way that I can describe it.

oh my gosh.

It's gosh, it's perfectly evil.

Jude: that's so funny.

And it, but it is, it is.

It's just it's that teachers do it.

We do our, like, I mean the, the
most obvious one checking role.

Where's so, and so is he absent today?

I don't know.

I just saw him last period.

It's like, well, okay.

You just told me everything,
you know, the old Ropa dope.

like, I mean, just simple things
like that and there's, I don't know

it just on tricks of the trade.

That's all.


Trey: mm-hmm I think one of
the other standouts of that

interrogation scene is the way.

CLE insinuates.

So is that when the enhanced individual
tried to kill you and I perked up in

my watch through, because I feel like
when one division came out and Falcon

in the winter, soldier came out, there
was this low rumbling of anti superhero

sentiment within the population.

And then it just kind of got back
seated, like even, and it's funny

because even in, Spider-Man no way home
where it's like, Spider-Man's a menace.

I didn't really get that feeling of
like superheroes need to be stopped.

And it's more so like, oh,
Spider-Man himself is dangerous.

Coming back to this idea of like
pushing back at the idea of,

of enhanced individuals was,
is really, really exciting.

Uh, I don't know where, obviously we've
only got kind of a taste of it here.

I wonder how much this is going to
be a, a reoccurring theme in the

show, as well as something phase
four continues to explore from here.

I'm gonna go

Jude: out on the limb and say, he's
gonna be in secret wars and be a scroll.

Trey: Wow.

You're already putting that, uh, gauntlet

Jude: down.


But not a good scroll,

Trey: but he's gonna be a scroll.

Oh, like an antagonist.


Mm-hmm , you know, they're, they're
doing something for him because we

talked about the importance of like,
Hey, this is a Sony character coming

to the studios, Marvel studio side.

There's clearly importance here.

We've already talked about the
comparisons to Spiderman home trilogy.

It is fitting that this character is
here and potentially making their way as

more of a prominent figure in the MCU.


Jude: of the things that just popped
into my head, remember that I wanted

to bring up about that interrogation
scene the way they got her to.

I don't wanna say, admit, but
talk about what she looks.

Oh, so she didn't look like you, you
know, and those types of things, the

fact that they specifically asked
about south Asian, I think was, was

really nice in terms of representation.


Cause because there's not fully
this understanding of, of Asia and

Asian, you, you know what I mean?

Um, in terms of like, you, you, you people
think like just it's this one thing.

Um, and, and not realizing, um, what
it all, what all that encompasses

Trey: was that clear?

Who said that?

I can't remember who
exactly said something.

No, it was the other one.

Mm-hmm uh, cause on that same token,

Jude: her name is the Dier ancient

Trey: Dier Dier.


On that same token, it was like ski
V, which this is its own rabbit hole

to go down that I I'm still learning
about, but she was like, was it Latino?

Oh, we're supposed to say Latin X now.

And it was the, like the disdain at
which she had that, that it was like,

I could see the sentiment of like,
okay, this is good representation,

but man, she was mm-hmm, definitely
the, the bad cop of the good cop,

bad cop thing they had going on.

Jude: Mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah, I
completely, I was thinking about the

south, the, where I completely wasn't
thinking about the, that comment there.


Trey: one of the last things I wanna
to highlight, because we we've made

multiple comparisons to Spider-Man,
we've talked about the feel of it,

the AU, this authenticity of the
high school, uh, a young person

dealing with superpower, Peter Parker
and Kamala share that for sure.

It is very interesting that not
only are we seeing agent Clery

coming in from Spider-Man no way.

We are seeing the Edith drones from
Spiderman far from home mm-hmm in the

possession of the depart, the department
of defense control attacking Kamala.

This one is wonderful because it
adds to that cohesive world, but

it is, it has me wondering of yeah.

Where Spiderman, noway homes out
of the spoiler zone exemption.

There is that scene where Matt
Murdoch is talking to Peter.

Parker's like, no, you're pretty
much in the clearer, but happy it is.

You're under investigation for why
star tech is ending up in all these

different, wrong hands, which I think
is going to lean into armored wars.

I'm glad that we're starting to see.

I, I think armored war is going to be
a lot bigger than I was anticipating

because of the inclusion of those
Edith drones in this final sequence.

Jude: Yeah.

And it makes me wonder.

Who's in charge of it D O T D

Trey: ODC, D ODC.

Department of defense.


Wait, department of advantage
control department of defense.

Jude: no, that's not good.

Uh, but it makes me wonder
who's who's in charge of

Trey: that.

I'm desperately trying to remember
the name of the guy, the, the

original mispronounced name villain
in one division Haywood director,

Haywood, Haywood, Hayward Hayward.

Jude: Hey, y'all part of me says him.

Part of me says the power broker.

Part of me says Val,
like, like who is that?

So, yeah.

Trey: Ooh.

Val would be a very good guess because
we know she's clearly got connections.

She's able, she was able to find
out a lot about John Walker before

she knew about the connection with
Hawkeye to the death of Romanoff.

I think you might be onto something there.


Jude: Do I do a podcast

Trey: surprised I didn't
get a Nick Sandy trough.

Well, that's pretty much wrapping up the
final act of this most important topic.

Again, I loved it just to
highlight it one more time.

Kamala is definitely a hero in training,
even though she is successful in

escaping the drones, she takes a fall
in tumbles and has to be rescued by,

as we talked about Comran and his
mother out come on in his mother.

I'm I'm excited, man.

I, I think they are doing a great job
of again, telling, I think I mentioned

this discord, this feels like the
most complete level of storytelling

that we're seeing in the MCU.

We're getting these individual
stories with just enough of a hook

to get us into the next episode.

And so starting with Kamala being in that
training place, getting into the first

test, completing that arc and being like,
okay, here's the next little wrinkle.

Now we see this deeper
examination of the family history.

Well, I, I mean

Jude: to put it that way, it
feels like an actual series.


Whereas the others having that
kind of, oh, it's a six hour movie.

Kind of idea.

It's like, no, you actually have
natural breaking or endpoints.

You know what I mean?

Like the, that you would expect
in a, in a regular series.

And so that's, that's the
thing that I think is really

making it really well done.

Trey: 100% again.

Kay Lee, wonderful showrunner of this,
uh, the directors we highlighted as well.

Oh, please don't hurt me this Marvel.

I'm I'm head over heel with
these first two episode.

Well, in

Jude: my gosh, season two, can't wait.

Trey: Well, you know what?

Let's, let's stick with episode two,
moving into our final thoughts where

we can either make a prediction,
stray thoughts, or highlight things

to consider moving into next week.

Jude, uh, or any of these
applicable to your final thoughts.

Jude: My two final thoughts is gonna
be the high school counselors write

with Bruno and this whole, like you're
the protagonist in your own story.

This is that moment.

And I'm cringing of like,
oh, you can't not go.

You can't not go, please go, please leave.

Don't stay for Kamala.

Don't stay for Kamala.

Oh, that drives me insane.

Like, and, and, and it just
because it's like, no, this

is the opportunity to apply.

This is you wanted go there's,
that's what you should do.

And, and so, as, as cringy as the high
school counselor is, he's not wrong.

Like you gotta go, you're
going to be a Jedi . Yeah.

Um, and then I find it so funny of
like this whole and, and the term

didn't come up, you know, and,
and I honestly think it's a stupid

term and it doesn't really exist.

Um, but just that whole, but
it's portrayed very well.

The, the di the dynamics of between
Bruno and Kamala and what some

might term, the friend zone, which
I, again, I don't like the term.

I don't think the friend zone exists.

It's unbelievably stupid.

Um, but that what people will
try to the dynamic, they try to

explain what that term of like
I'm interested, but they're not.

And so we're friends and, and, and
to see that, especially AF uh, Camron

comes in the picture, um, I think
that dynamic is, is shown really well.

I just, I don't know what else to call it.

Unfortunately, natural jealousy.

. Yeah.

It's just because again,
I that's dumb, but

Trey: yeah.

So like to, to pull us out
from perpetuating that, like,

I, I want to one speak to.

I think the jealous I'm with you,
the jealousy, I think is well

done because he is clearly, he
does have feelings for Kamala.

It's not going the way he plants,
but I mean, he's still there for her.

He's still a friend.

So I think it's showing a more
well-rounded character than that.

Uh, but also in the defense of
Bruno, like, I don't think it's as

simplistic of like, oh, I'm not gonna
go because I, I have feelings for

Kamala and now there's this other
guy, like I gotta be here for that.

I think there is this, like, he
has a clear interest in tech and

yes, designing things and coming up
mm-hmm like, they they've actually

done a wonderful job seeding that
without being front and center.

But there's just these little nods of
like how he's such a brilliant engineer.


And I think there is this push and pull.

Yes, you're right.

There is a bit of that jealousy,
like, oh no, you know what, what's

gonna happen when I am gone.

But also.

He's got like kind of this opportunity of
a lifetime too, where he's helping Kamala

develop these powers and as important
as it is to her for like being this

superhero, he's in a position where he
gets to be kind of that guy in the chair.

So I think there is this level
of like unfinished work that

he might be feeling as well.

So I don't think it's just purely
like, oh, young, what did we call it?

Uh, crush.

I can't remember what we called it
earlier, but that like that young

crush in high school, like I think
there is multi-layers to Bruno here.


Jude: Yes.

I agree with you on that, but I think
the high school counselor's right.

You gotta go.

Trey: Yeah.

Oh, 100%.

You gotta go.

get out all, all expenses paid, dude.

Come on.

I know, right?


Jude: that's, like, like you can
go do that, get your training and

come back and help Kamala even more.


Trey: 100%, you know, I'm
glad you brought that up.

I felt so bad that we, we, uh,
skipped over the Bruno stuff cuz

Bruno man, no one talks about him.

well, excuse me, Brian and NAIA.

I, that, that whole friend group
is just so wonderfully written.

Like they feel real.

I'm gonna keep being a
broken record on that.

Like the point in the beginning of
the episode where they're, uh, whereas

Kamala and Brunner are excited and
they're jumping up and down about

something and the NAIA comes in,
it's like, what are we jumping about?

Like, it just, it feels real.

So I'm glad that that chemistry is there.

The other thing I wanted to highlight
kind of sticking with Bruno loved, loved

the Avengers in game reference, wherever
they were doing the training montage

mm-hmm and she tries to do the hard light
step off into the ground as she falls.

And he catches her and she's
like, you gotta let me go.



It's just so good.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, and, and, but just the way they play
into that of like, you know, I, I thought

of, um, Hawkeye and Kate Bishop, you
know, in that scene, but just the whole,

I thought of actually Toby McGuire and
like, okay, I gotta really test myself,

um, into the spider verse and really test
yourself in like, okay, leap of faith.

I gotta do this, you know?

And, and like you said earlier, like
you're trying to get, and it gets higher

and higher and difficulty, even though
you're not really accomplishing it.

And then it's like, oh,
it's it's you, you are fine.

Trey: the final stray
thought I wanna share.

And this is stupid and also
very visually dependent.

So probably not great for a podcast, but.

They're the scene when Kamala and
Bruno go into the attic to really

start demonstrating the powers mm-hmm
off into the bottom right corner.

There is almost this framing that
makes it look like a white, a and the

only reason that that stuck out to me.

I remember when the, in between infinity
war and in game before in games, title

was revealed, the Russo brothers shared a
picture where it just said look closely.

And it was supposed to
spell out in game in game.


So because of that, now that shot
that stupid a, that was the only

thing I could think of cause I poured
hours over that dumb image, trying

to figure out what the title of the
final Avengers movie was gonna be.


Jude: that's so funny.

that's so funny.

Trey: And of course I'll link to
the tweet and I'll try and get a

screenshot too, of miss Marvel where
I'm talking about mm-hmm and the, the

tweet the Russo brothers put out so
people can see what I'm talking about.

so that's where my

Jude: brain went.

That's all right.

I, I just love the sequence of
just like, again, the, the, the

experimenting with it, but not
really knowing what they're doing.

You know, and a pretty

Trey: Bandicoot

Jude: it was clever.

That was clever.

Trey: Very clever.

Well, I think that's gonna do it.

So if you want to get ahold of us,
you can always follow us at MC you

need to know both on Twitter and
Instagram, but as of right now until

July, the best place to actually get
in contact with us is in the discord.

Uh, that's where you can comment both on
the MIS Marvel episodes as they happen.

You can have any feedback for the
podcast episode in which you just

listened, or you can just join the
community as they celebrate various

different pop culture, fascinations,
and become part of that community.

So if any of that sounds interesting
to you, you can find a link to

the discord in the show notes.

Jude: Of course, as we stated last
episode, this pod is beautiful and you

gotta share that beauty with friends.

I'm only saying that for your
sake now, cuz I know that

through you so far off but yeah.

Share it with a friend um, you know,
it gives them something to listen to.

You know, deepens your friendship,
cuz Hey, this is something I'm into

and now you get to share it with
someone else, give you something

else to talk to, uh, to talk about.

So please share it with a friend
ratings and reviews, Spotify and

apple podcast and wherever else that
actually you can, you can do them.

Uh, please do.

So it's super helpful, uh, for us.

Trey: Yeah.

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for
the use of our theme song, which is

his rendition of the Avenger theme.

You can find more of his work
on a SoundCloud, which is linked

in the show notes as well.

Well, that's gonna do it.

Thank you so much for listening and Jude.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you, Trey.

We'll see you all next week.

Uh, is there anything else
that I wanted to bring up?

Um, not that I can think of.

I think I'm ready.

Jude: Cool stuff.

Watch is up.

Oh, okay.

What I was looking for Reaper is like
to like start recording and I was like,

wait, okay, it's already recording.

We sing.

I was about to say,

we're recording sun up.

We we're sunk up.

Synced up, sunk

Trey: up.

look, we're early.

We're earlier than we normally record.

So any zaniness that may happen
in this episode will be blamed

on not being our regular time.

Jude: yeah.

That's that's exactly.

What's what's going wrong here.

Trey: this is like that time that I sat
down thinking I had an hour ready, left

to go and you're like, Hey, are you ready?

And I'm like, what?

like, all my alarms went off.

The moment you messaged me.

Jude: oh man.

Trey: All right, we

Jude: good to go.



Let's roll it.

All right,

Trey: here we go.

Episode one 13.

Here we go.

Creators and Guests

Jude (Hubbit)
Jude (Hubbit)
Catholic | Still trying to make sense of things | Co-host of @MCUNeedtoKnow Podcast |
Trey Solis
Trey Solis
One day I woke up painfully aware of my existence and I’ve been apologizing for it ever since.
Join our Discord here
As always, share with a friend
and shout out Nick Sandy