Trey: Hello, and welcome back to another
episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast

dedicated to the Marvel Cinematic
Universe and everything you need to know.

I'm Trey.

Jude: I'm Jude.

How are you doing Trey?

Trey: Well, Jude I'm excited
because today we get to welcome

back the human mic drop himself.

We sign off every week with him, but this
week we're kicking it off by welcoming

back the one and only Nick Sandy.

Welcome back, Nick.

Jude: Welcome Nick.

Thanks for having me.

Nick: That was such a good intro.

I just, wow.

Wow.

Trey: How do you feel about
being called the human mic drop?

Nick: I mean, I just want to, I want a
Jersey that says that on the back of it

Jude: Add it to our list of merch.

Trey: Our long list of to-do of merch.

That's

Nick: spectacular.

Yeah.

Well, how's it going, man?

Oh man, it's going great.

It's been a really good end of the summer.

Like I was telling Judy earlier,
like we just had two really quick

vacations that were really great.

Went to Eastern Washington, went to Vegas
for the first time for like 22 hours,

Trey: which was crazy.

Wow.

Yeah.

I saw the incident story on that.

That seemed to wild.

Nick: Uh, but yeah, it's
just been a really great.

Jude: And you came back from
Vegas ready to retire, right?

Oh yeah.

Nick: Fully ready to retire

Trey: that much.

Yeah.

Jude: So I was telling him, and I
was telling you the one time I went

to Vegas, I was in like fifth grade.

Right?

And so we were at circus circus and
essentially what I would do me and

my friend that was there, my dad
would be playing the slot machines

and I would be off on this red carpet
that kids were allowed to walk on

to kind of get to the big top area.

And I would just stand on that
carpet and watch a slot machine.

And every time it paid, I would
take off running, grab his quarters

and then take off and go spin
them off on the video games.

Nick: That's all.

Trey: So I think it's safe to say you
might have the wildest Vegas story ever.

Jude: I can tell you more about
that, but I will save it for off PUD

Nick: stick around to the end,
tag everybody, maybe a little

bit of a story about Reagan.

Trey: Thank you for that.

T's well, you know, it's been quite
awhile since we've had you on the podcast.

I think the last time you were here,
it was when we were doing our wrap-up

for Falcon in the winter soldier.

So obviously there's been a lot of
new stuff in the MCU regarding movies.

Uh, we had the whole Loki series as
well as some pretty big trailers drop.

Since the last time you were here, is
there any potential one that sticks out.

Oh

Nick: man.

I mean, there's so much,
obviously that happened.

Uh, Loki was riveting.

Like, honestly, it was so good that I
got into, so I work at a church and I

went in early on the last episode, so I
can put the episode on the big screen.

Nice.

And I just, I watched it all by
myself, like know eight o'clock in

the morning, just like sitting there
on the big screen, watching it with

a booming sound and everything.

Trey: I remember you
sending me photos of that.

That is such an amazing way to watch it.

And if I'm not mistaken, you had fallen
behind because you were just were taking

a break from watching it week to week.

So you had just caught up
in time for the finale.

What a way to.

Oh, yeah,

Nick: it was just like, boom, boom, boom.

And then right into the finale.

It was awesome.

And then, you know, go ahead.

Jude: I was just going to say that just
sounds like an awesome experience to get

it, to see on a big screen like that.

It's

Nick: pretty awesome.

I've I've done.

I think two episodes of what if
in the big screen as well, so

Jude: nice.

Nice.

Nick: Uh, and then on top of that, I
mean, you know, all the trailers, um,

obviously Spider-Man like, holy moly,
like I'm just waiting with bated breath.

That

Trey: movie can't come soon enough.

Legitimately.

Can't come see it though.

Jude: So where, where do you stand?

Are you going to watch the next trailer?

I think that, I think they're going
to put it in front of the venom too.

You know, I,

Nick: I heard you say on the
last pod, uh, that I listened to

that you're like, you're done.

You're like, I'm not
watching any more trailers.

And then I'm pretty sure Trey was
the one said that you have more

willpower than him and you have voice.

Do you have more willpower than me?

Cause as soon as it comes out,
I'm going to watch it like five

Trey: times.

Jude: Well, okay.

A friend of mine who
swears off all trailers.

He's like, if I I'll
trailers, not just Marvel.

He's like, if I'm going to see it,
I'm not going to watch the trailer.

He watched the Spider-Man trailer
cause he listened to our pot.

Oh,

Trey: well I'm glad we
were a bad influence

if that friends listening.

Sorry.

Jude: Sorry, Sean.

Jonathan.

Trey: Yeah.

I admire the strength of anybody
who can resist that second trailer.

Cause I know.

And it's it's to the point where maybe
we're getting sidetracked already.

I love it.

It's to the point where that movie is
already so big that I know I'm not going

to avoid screenshots or memes or trailers.

And if I'm going to experience it,
I want to experience it on my own

terms for the first time, rather
than just seeing it like repurposed.

Wow.

Nick: That's true.

Yeah.

Uh, beyond that though, like I, I
haven't seen Blackwater yet and I

also haven't seen Shang-Chi yet.

And the reason I haven't seen Shang-Chi
yet is because I'm debating whether or

not to take my son who just turned five.

And, um, you know, he's never been
to a movie before and I'm thinking

like he loves superhero movies.

I'm thinking like, how cool would it be
to take him to his first movie, his first

superhero movie, and have it be an Asian
superhero for those of you guys that don't

know, like I am, uh, I'm full Korean.

And so to have him look up on the
screen, first aid, first superhero

movie, and a guy that looks like him,
like, you know, that's something that

I'm like, man, this would be awesome.

Like how cool would it experiences this
to look back and be like, that was the

first movie I saw, but I'm just trying
to feel out if it's gonna, if he's gonna

sit still for two hours, you know, if
he's not going to talk the whole time.

Trey: So,

Jude: you know what I, I would
like to highly encourage you

to do that for my daughters.

They.

They had seen super hero movies already,
but getting to take them to captain

Marvel and them getting to watch captain
Marvel and me watching captain Marvel

with them was just an amazing experience.

It really was.

And all three of them love that movie.

I mean, not just, I mean,
it's a good movie, right.

But yeah.

Yeah.

I highly recommend that.

I think that would be such
a wonderful experience.

And it's such a unique
opportunity as well.

Like you said, to have that
first experience and to get

to see that representation

Nick: wait till like a Monday matinee,
you know, when there's going to be

a lot of people there, hopefully we
can get a whole theater to ourselves.

So if he just ends up talking and
asking me all these questions,

like can be like not worried that
someone's gonna be mad at me.

Trey: Yeah.

That's really special, man.

I hope you get to pull that off.

Cause that's, that's like one of
those life cementing experiences

that I think he'll remember fondly.

So that's really cool.

Well, yeah, man.

Well, thank you for catching us up
on your thoughts on the MCU at large.

But of course, if you've downloaded this
episode, uh, you know, we're going to

be talking about season one, episode
five of what if which is entitled.

What if zombies?

So the way we're going to do this is we're
going to have some pre spoiler thoughts,

and then you'll hear an audio cue where
we will go into the spoiler zone and

break the episode down into three acts.

So before we get there, we're
going to start with you.

Nick, do you have any pre spoiler
thoughts for this episode?

Nick: This is an episode that I
think capitalized so well on the

style, like being an animated show.

Uh, just was able to pull off something
that I don't think they would've been

able to pull off with live action.

And I, I think like, you know,
they've been leading up to it.

I think last week's episode had a
lot of fantastical things too, but

it could have probably been done
live action, but this one was like,

man, what a great, great usage of
the medium, like the animation style.

And so, yeah, it was really fun to
watch and see how they drew things

and see how they animated it.

And, uh, it was yeah.

Really fun to watch.

Jude: Yeah.

So I'm going to stick with
like last week and our initial,

like social media response.

Um, I feel like this series finally hit
its stride with this episode, uh, which

it kinda makes sense most episodic or,
you know, shows like this take about

four or five episodes to get going.

Um, I expected that to get going a
little bit sooner, just cause you're

already working with material, I
guess if that makes sense, but this

one strange one in this one, really.

I feel like.

They kind of figured out what
they're doing, but I really like what

Nick said, because last week, The
animation I think worked really well.

And this week it was the animation was
fantastic for the style, which makes

me wonder if they should have changed
animation styles per episode, to fit now.

I mean, that probably gets costly, you
know, but I, I completely agree that

that the animation just stylistically
works so great for, for what they did.

Nick: You know, uh, going back to
what you said about this one on Dr.

Strange, I feel like this episode and
the last week's episode where the first

one where they, they didn't spoonfeed
us really anything, you know, that those

first two were like, just in case you
haven't seen anything, we're going to

really catch up on everything that's going
on, you know, but you know, this one,

like Peter Parker was just like, boom,
you know who Spider-Man is like, boom,

you, you should know who ain't man is.

Boom.

You should know who all
these people are by now.

Like, we're just going to jump you
into, this is the universe, you

Trey: know, no kind of bridging in
between both of y'all's thoughts.

One of the, my preschooler thoughts
is I think this is the strongest

episode of the season so far.

And it's been because.

It has strayed the furthest
from what we know and looping

it back into what you two said.

I think it is because it's taking
advantage of being in that animated

format and having a little bit more
fun with it, pulling off things that I

don't think you could do in live action.

And that felt bold.

Uh, so I really appreciated that.

What I mentioned in our social media
posts is that it took the familiar tropes

of both zombie and superhero stories and
it blended it into something that also

felt perfect for this format as well.

Um, and finally, the last one that I'll
I'll put here in the preschooler thoughts

is I think the thing that works the
most for me is that this episode brought

together characters who had minimal, if
any interactions in the movies at all.

And I think that's really special because
I'd rather see what hasn't been done

before than remixes of what has been.

So I appreciated that about this episode.

That's a great

Nick: point.

Trey: I didn't even think about that.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Well, I think that's going to
wrap up our pre spoiler thoughts.

So like we said, there's going to
be an audio cue and on the other

side, it'll be fair game for all
spoilers in the MCU except Shang and

black widow, but everything else.

So we'll see you on the other side

and we're back.

So we started this last week.

We're going to continue the trend this
week, where we're going to break down

this episode into three acts rather than
going through most important topics.

So act one is going to take us from the
beginning of the episode where we have

a Hawk being sent back to the sanctum.

Sanctorum like he wasn't infinity war,
except when he arrives, he has discovered

there is a zombie apocalypse in the works
and that'll take us all the way until we

see the heroes daring, their train escape.

So starting with you, Nick, where would
you like to start with in this act?

Okay,

Nick: correct me if I'm
wrong, but that's our Bruce

Trey: banner.

As far as like, that's like the

Nick: main MCU timeline, Bruce banner.

Right.

Jude: That's the way I took it.

Me

Nick: too.

So like that for me is like, that's,
that's, you know, we were talking, you

guys were talking last week about like,
if there's going to be some overarching,

you know, storyline, it's obviously
going to be the identical tentacles,

but, but now, like, this is, if I think
this is the first time regular, our MCU

timeline has crossed into a different

Trey: timeline.

Hmm.

I'm doing a quick, just kind
of recount of the episodes.

And I think you're right.

Cause obviously captain Carter was
different to challah was way different.

The closest one I think we got is Dr.

Strange, but even then, like we
pointed out, he was already changed

until we got to the point we
were familiar with in the movies.

So yeah, that's a very
astute observation, Nick.

Nick: So that, that was my big thing.

Like I was like, wait a minute,
did they just say, did he just

say, you know, and then yeah.

So I thought that is that's gonna,
is that going to somehow tie into

this all thing, like coming together?

Is that going to tie in
somehow more than that?

Jude: Because yeah, well, I was gonna
say what I like also like about that

is it really, it, it did give me that
feeling, um, which actually preached more,

otherwise I, I think you're a hundred
percent dead on, in that first step posole

first to where it's like, we've got to
spoon VGU you might not remember this.

Um, whereas this one, they
just drop you right in that.

That's the other thing I really
liked about this opening sequence

is it's something very familiar
and then there's a left turn.

Um, you know, uh, similar
to that episode three.

So that's, that's something I really liked

Trey: about it, you know, sticky
with the scene and playing

off what you two have said.

Uh, I mentioned in my priest portlethen is
that the thing I enjoyed was the blending

of the tropes of the different genres.

Uh, starting with that familiar of Hoka
being teleported back to the sanctum

sanctorum, but the off feeling of nobody
being around to answer him, sir, plants

that dread of Thanos arriving with that
all too familiar dread of a zombie movie.

Like so often those stories start
where it is an isolated character who

slowly stepping into that unfamiliar of
recognizing that something slightly off.

So that was a nice, almost
meta blend of how that works.

And it's, it's fun to see them
weave familiarity and unfamiliarity

in such a short timeframe.

Yeah.

Were definitely

Nick: shades of like 28 days later.

I thought of, you know, when, uh,
Cillian Murphy wakes up after being

in Tacoma and like everything's
totally different, you know?

And just,

Trey: yeah.

Yeah.

Well, let me ask you this,
Nick, what did you think.

And that moment where Bruce is going
outside and he has that realization

where he sees Tony's hand come through
strangest portal and like reposts or

blasts the, the, the arrivals, like, how
did you feel once that turn happened?

And it was zombies, uh,

Nick: almost kind of like giddy in a
way, like you obviously like going in,

you know, that it's as obvious, but
you're just like, oh yeah, let's go

Trey: crazy.

You know, did you know going in
that it was going to be zombies?

Yeah.

Well the title.

Nick: Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So what if his arm he's like,
yeah, I kind of thought, okay,

this is going to be zombies.

And then you, you know, you get
enough of it to be like, oh,

dang, like something's totally

Jude: different.

So, well, and on that with the
familiar and something new, this, this

is the first time I think I've seen
outside of like a YouTube edit, right?

Uh, the blending of the end of ant, man.

Within his proper place in
the timeline and infinity war.

Um, and so that's, that's something
I really enjoyed and thought it

was really clever of how they got
the zombies there rather than, um,

or in terms of the explanation.

Right.

Rather than just kind of dropping
in there without any explanation.

Right.

I always love

Nick: a good zombie
apocalypse explanation.

Like how did this happen?

Was it moon beams from Mars and radiation?

Or was it really angry?

Uh, monkeys or whatever, you know,
like, I love hearing how they're

explaining what happened with the

Trey: zombies, you know?

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

It's, it's an organic wrap up into, I
feel like I'm gonna be saying this a lot

through the episode, but that blending
of the two, two genres, speaking of

this scene where, uh, the revelation for
banner it being that they're the undead.

As soon as I saw that scene, I flash
back to a conversation that I had

with our friend, Rob Logan, uh,
when I was hanging out in one of his

Twitch streams, He's made it known.

He's not a fan of this episode
specifically, cause he's not

a fan of zombies in general.

And when we were talking, I remember
saying like, yeah, I like zombies.

Well enough, but there's something about
making our superheroes zombies that

I just feel really ambivalent about.

Like I just I'm sure I was going
to enjoy it, but it was just

not something that I was looking
forward to within five minutes.

This episode helped me articulate why,
and then prove to me why it works.

And that was seeing a zombified
Tony still using his super powers.

Dr.

Strange, still using a super powers that
feels like a unique spin on the zombie

genre that I was not expecting at all.

And so immediately in that little
sequence, I went from kind of like,

okay, this doesn't make sense to
like, all right, I'm in, I'm strapped

in and I'm ready for this ride.

Jude: Well, and that's another thing
where I don't think this works.

If you try to do it.

You know, just the, the using of
the powers, um, which again, you

can get a lot, you can get away
with a lot more with it made it

Trey: like that, surviving the
zombie apocalypse video that

Peter Parker made for everybody.

Yeah.

What'd you think of that?

Nick: So funny, it definitely
kind of brought me back to zombie

Trey: land.

Yeah.

That's a very, it's a mix of zombie land.

And I don't know if you've seen this
movie, but Mitchell's versus the machines.

I think it was a Netflix movie where
it had a very similar, I don't want

to say style because the style is
a lot closer to, into the spider

verse, but it's that same feeling
of like a younger person expressing

themselves through media that way.

And it was such a nice spin on Peter
Parker because we know he already

has an affinity for it based off
the things that he recorded at the

beginning of Spider-Man homecoming.

Right.

Jude: I think this might be one of the
first times Trey you've said you've

watched something and I haven't seen it.

Trey: That's our way.

Nick: Jude, you got to grab the, grab
the girls and like go watch that movie.

Like as soon as you can.

It's so

Trey: good.

Bring a box of tissues though.

It's a tear jerker.

Okay.

I'll be right back.

Okay.

Nick: And we're back

Trey: and

Nick: a tree, you know, that, that
was done by the same team that

did into the spider verse, right?

Yeah.

Trey: Same animation team, right?

Not the same directors

Nick: or right.

I don't think it's the
same directors, but yeah.

Same animation team

Trey: for sure.

Yeah.

That's a really, really good movie.

We'll make sure to link to it
in the show notes for a trailer.

If it, it kind of flew under the radar.

I think it was one of those movies that
got caught in the shuffle of the pandemic

and it didn't get the second marketing
surge and it just kind of landed on

Netflix, but it's so worth the watch.

Jude: I just looked it up by MTV.

Uh,

Nick: it's the best family movie I've

Jude: seen in years.

I'll I'll watch it.

I will watch it Trey.

Wow.

Okay.

That's also a big statement though,
to say it's the best family movie

you've seen in years, just because,
you know, I mean, there's been

a lot of stuff that's come out.

Yeah.

Like in game.

Wait, is that not family?

Is that

Nick: I wrote, I was watching, uh, uh,
infinity or my son brings it in and I

was, I had to prep him for like the end.

I was just like, okay,
this is what's coming.

I just, this is a movie
we're going to get there.

It's okay.

It's

Trey: okay.

How did he take it

Nick: at first?

There was definitely, even though we
talked about it, like, especially like

when Peter goes down, he's just like.

Did he, he loves, he just he's
really obsessed with death.

Cause he's like four or five year old.

He's like, did they die?

Did they die?

If he didn't just die?

And I'm just like, I can't tell you,
we're going to have to keep watching.

But like, it's just like, oh
my gosh, you know, like what's

Trey: going on not to keep sidetracking
here, but I have to say this dude was

mentioning in the discord that he was
going through the movies with your oldest.

Right.

I tried to let's put it that way.

And so when we're in the discord,
we were, we were all just pitching

different runs that he could do.

And I still stand by this.

You should do the strongest
we'll run where you show them

infinity war and make them wait a
year until they get to watch it.

And this is a good reason
why I'm not a parent,

Jude: not, not only are we doing release
order, we're doing the weight as well.

So it's going to take
iron man to end game.

Trey: You got to appreciate it.

Like I did

Jude: imagine if I did
that with star wars.

Oh, whoa.

Gosh.

Trey: Well, you know what I'm
getting back to the episode.

Uh, I do wanna mention, uh, I really
enjoyed the pairing of Kurt and Peter.

Uh, it started in that video, but
they really had a nice dynamic in

the episode, that little montage
of like surviving the apocalypse

that Peter made was just so good.

Especially seeing how disgruntled
happy was like, I need more

of Peter and happy in the MCU

Jude: December.

Um, you know what, I, I really
liked the emphasis on hope van Dyne.

I really liked her having
a big central role.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Trey: Like I think both times that the
Avengers have been front and center in

this series was the Nick fury episode
in this one in the Nick fury episode,

we saw Hank as Atman get really involved
in the happenings of that episode.

And then with this one, we see hope
van Dyne and I think it's a nice.

I dunno if it's homage, but like a
callback to, from my understanding

both ant man and the wasp being
very fundamental to the Avengers.

So even though that's not how it played
out in the prime timeline, it's nice to

get to see them much more ingrained here.

Oh

Jude: yeah.

Cause they were original Avengers.

Well,

Nick: but yeah, it was nice to see,
um, Sebastian, Stan and get another

run at, uh, his voice acting career.

Trey: Did it improve for you in this one?

Nick: I think he did considerably better.

I don't know if maybe he heard
the first one and he was like,

oh, I can do that better, but,

Jude: well, I, I wonder,
cause I agree with you.

He did so much better.

Do you think he changed his approach?

May Stein, John rhe,
like zombie apocalypse.

I'm winter soldier here.

It's 1940s on Bucky.

Trey: Oh, I think that's
a really good point.

That's a really good point because
when we meet up with him in the first

episode, he hasn't gone through the
torture that he did in the movie.

So yeah, I think you're
onto something there.

And,

Jude: and I didn't think about that
at the time of watching the first

episode I was with you, the first
episode of like, eh, this isn't good.

So is she with you robot,
robot robot for, yes.

Oh, that's my

Trey: best impression.

You almost rip my arm off.

Like it was so stiff.

Nick: Oh man.

And then, oh, wait is now I'm
scared that she's not in this.

Yeah, she's in the beginning, Sharon.

Yeah.

Yeah, great to see Sharon back.

Great.

Uh, you know, it hasn't been that
long, but good to see her fighting

for the good, good guys again.

Jude: Well, I was about to say,
like, I didn't even think I didn't,

I didn't see Sharon Carter in once
think, oh, the power broker or like

change my opinion of her, you know?

And I don't know if that shows that
Falcon to winter soldier didn't

have, or Sharon Carter from Falcon or
winter soldier didn't have a lasting

impact or, you know, or if I was just
kind of sucked into this episode.

But again, I mean, if you think
about it, it was very female.

I mean, for having.

You know, we start with
homework and all that and stuff.

It was very female centered as far
as leading the group, which was, you

know, and the inside characters in
the main movies, getting an upfront,

Trey: you know, speaking to the
Sharon Carter aspect of this, it

makes me wonder what her relationship
to the Avengers is in this timeline.

Because after Falcon in the winter
soldier, we know that she was

severely spurned by them because
she was kind of left out to dry

after the events of civil war.

And this, we get that montage where
it's like the watcher says the irony

is that the Avengers showing up is
what sealed the fate of humanity.

The Avengers were working together.

They didn't look like they were
disbanded quite like they were

at the beginning of infinity war.

So I wonder what it means for the
trajectory of Sharon Carter, that she

is there at the end of the world with
them, given that there is no fallout.

Yeah,

Jude: I didn't think about that.

Well, okay.

So aside from, Hm, Hulk, that's
another thing aside from HOLC

the only ones that were zombies
were dusted or were not dusted.

No.

Nick: Dr.

Strange was

Jude: the, yeah.

Okay.

Dr.

Strange was dusted and
Falcon, Falcon and hope.

No, I'm saying the only
ones that were zombies.

Oh, right, right, right,
right, right, right, right.

Hawkeye wasn't dusted.

No, no, that's right.

And he was his zombie.

Oh, I see what you're saying.

Yeah.

But yeah, like, like the ones that
were zombies was the, the group and

infinity war that did not get dusted.

Trey: It's almost like we're getting
to see a, what if it was a flip of

the event of infinity war, even though
it wasn't the same catalyst, but that

same feeling of what would happen
if this was the team that was left

Jude: Dover.

Yeah.

And cause I think, I think Hawk
is the only one that didn't

get dusted or that got, yeah.

That didn't get dusted and
wasn't a zombie right away.

Trey: Yeah.

That's a really nice answer.

Jude: Hmm.

Yeah.

Nick, Sandy.

Oh, wait, my truck

Nick: really just

Trey: dropped my mic real quick.

Well, I think I have two more
points that I want to bring up

before we move into the next act.

So I'll kind of go through them quickly.

The first one, you know, I talked
again about the blending of the genres.

Another moment that I really liked is
that scene in the train station where

it's the familiar trope of they get to
this place, they found a way out, but they

have to work together to get it running.

It was really cool to watch as
hope was shrinking down and going

into the engine of the train to
try and see what was going on.

Uh, meanwhile, Peter Parker has used
his webs to try and create like, um,

a slingshotting effect of the train.

And as he's doing that, you see
the zombies in the background

getting closer to them.

So it's these fantastical stuff that's
blended with that horror element as well.

And that works surprisingly well

Jude: for me.

Yeah.

Like I don't know how y'all felt, but
I thought, uh, and just, again, this

just shows the, how well they did
with the genre is I thought Peter was.

Yeah.

Like I thought he was a garner there,
you know, and that's, that's just

them, the ed, the sequencing, the
directing, all of that right there.

They was just done so well.

Nick: Do you think it will, was,
uh, an homage to Spiderman to him

stopping the train with his spider
webs to him starting the training with

the

Jude: spider webs kind of do that's great.

Yeah, I kind of do.

I think you're right.

Nick: That was the last time I saw
him do anything with the train.

I feel like he was doing
the exact same thing

Trey: in reverse.

You know, that scene is iconic in not
only Spiderman films, but superhero films.

So you put Spiderman with a
train, like you have to be

doing some sort of callback to

Jude: it.

Yeah, I do think you're right on that.

Neat.

Trey: Well, the last point that I
want to bring up and I'm honestly

surprised it took this long to get it.

I can't get enough of happy Hogan.

John Fabro is just, he feels
like the perfect foil for the

fantastical nature of the Avengers,
because I texted you this dude.

I was so excited to share this with you.

I made this realization
about happy Hogan last night.

He is John McClain in a universe of
Avengers, except it's not as impressive

because everybody else has a superhero,
but he is that like ordinary hero

who is constantly upstaged by them.

Jude: Oh, that's so funny.

Now I'm just, I'm just imagining a
one-shot of happy Hogan, like trying

to say save the Nakatomi tower.

Right?

Trey: Join the west coast.

Avengers have a few.

Laughs.

Oh dude.

I w I didn't know how much I
wanted that until just now,

Jude: but

Trey: yeah.

Happy Hogan.

I, I I've been awarding
in VPs of the episode.

The last couple of weeks he came close.

I think he has my heart in this episode,
but, um, I'll save the MVP award for

somebody later on in the episode,
but he was so good and it's nice

Nick: to see, like, I, you know,
obviously I've never met John Fabro.

Um, you know, he'll, he'll, he'll
come on the pod someday, right?

Oh yeah.

I hope so.

Yeah.

Trey: John Fabro, this is an open
invitation if you'd never liked to join.

Okay.

Continue.

But

Nick: just to see him like write this
character that you know, is occasionally

bumbling, occasionally heroic.

Um, and occasionally, uh, often, uh,
upstaged by the other superheroes,

it's fun to see him be able to like,
kind of poke fun at himself and like

put them in this character as just
kind of occasionally a goober, you

know, and, um, just play it so well.

And so straight, you know what I mean?

Jude: What was the line
about the chauffeur.

Nick: I love the taxi driver.

Trey: Yeah.

Yeah.

I think I actually wrote it down.

Yeah, it said, uh, I'm not an Uber driver.

I'm a personal chauffer.

There's a difference

spoken like a true forehead of security.

Anyway, I think that's going
to wrap up act one, which will

bring us into the second act.

This one's going to take us from the
moment of their escape when they are

in transit to camp Lehigh all the way
until the twist of visions doings.

So, uh, starting with you, Jude,
where would you like to start?

I

Jude: liked that we got to see.

A face-off between, uh, Bucky and cap.

I don't know why I just felt, and, and
that was in the promotional trailer.

Like he knew it was coming.

Uh, but if for some reason it was
just a really satisfying moment.

Nick: Yeah.

Like I thought everything from his
introduction, uh, from, you know, cap's

introduction when he lands on the top
of the train, like, cause you know,

even though it wasn't the material,
like when, you know, when you hear him

come, I'm like, oh wait, who is this?

Like, who is, who is, who is going
to be, he was going to be, and then

to have a ViCAP was just like, oh
snap, like, we're like, we're here.

Like we're going for it.

It's awesome.

Yeah.

Jude: Well, cause I mean, you deal
with it in a couple of different way.

Like the stereotypical of
the zombie genre, right.

Someone's faced with a loved
one, but it's a zombie.

Right.

And it's like, so you.

Kill the zombie, but it's their loved one.

And, and, uh, and then later we get
the other stereotype, the other trope,

not stereotype, the other trope of
like, oh, someone is his bit and

they're going to turn, what do you do?

You know?

And so the episode covered all that.

But to see that, that moment between
the two of them was really good.

And also, I mean, putting it
in that context, like he was

very winter soldier about it.

He didn't seem conflicted.

Right.

Trey: And you went right down to business,
like caught that shield and threw it

like you had no issue, but you're right.

And, and I think, you know, the first
thing that I honestly thought of is you've

been kind of keeping me in check because I
think the last time we saw the shield Wiz

in episode three, with Nick fury and you
brought it up, it's like, oh, it's kind

of like what you were saying last week.

Where are we seeing the shield too much?

And I didn't bring it
up then, but I didn't.

Feel the same way I felt about it being
in the collectors, uh, collection.

And I didn't really have a reason to
articulate why then seeing this episode

where the kind of zombie cap and Bucky
face-off, it was because the shield in

the context of like a fallen hero made
more sense to the weight than it just

being a prop on somebody's collection.

That plays into what you were saying
about that trope of seeing a friend

who's been bitten and having to do
what that ramifications Bucky and

Steve are shortcuts for those emotional
story beats that they just played so

well within that truck together right

Nick: now, Trey, when you say enough
to like carry the weight, do you think

you would be enough to carry the weight
of like a truck falling off of a cliff?

Maybe

Jude: I'm just, I'm just wondering,
I think their relationship strong,

but it might not be that strong.

Trey: Where, where do I get my
money back on this mediator?

Jude: Oh man.

Trey: Oh

Jude: man.

Trey: I don't know where to go.

Let's

Nick: talk about Sharon in this stack too.

Yeah, because I love that they took the
beat from all the memes about Ant-Man

and Thanos and they kind of, they kind
of played it up a little bit in this one.

They did it.

Trey: Would've worked.

So this may get cut, but I have to
at least tell you, Nick, there is

a in tag that we had to get rid of
because we didn't want to bring it up.

You navigated that very gracefully.

And for the people who know what we're
talking about, But I see your point.

Look, even Josh Brolin himself
acknowledged the theory.

So yeah.

Jude: Well, I would say my friend,
Ken did text me saying ant man

is the most dangerous hero.

Trey: I guess we should all
be so fortunate that Scott

Lang has a heart of gold

Jude: check, check, check the
socials to get the rest of it.

Trey: I'm excited.

You just gave me a green light
and I'm going to take that.

Well, you know, getting back
to the episode, uh, one thing I

run into zone in on is I talked
about the emotional shortcut.

You can take with the established
relationship of both Steve and

Bucky when they had their moment.

Another one that really worked for me.

Whenever is giving his speech
about the, you know, staying

upbeat and holding onto hope.

And it made me realize that it's amazing
how many emotional shortcuts you can

take with Peter, because his story is
so ingrained with the general population

that you could just hammer home that
stuff, because I'm not going to lie.

I was tearing up during that scene.

Uh, it could be because I am a sucker
for stories about holding onto hope,

but I thought it was done really well.

Yeah.

Nick: It's a, it's a good point.

You're making, especially about like
Peter Parker being such a well-known like

character with his, with his backstory.

It's almost like, you know, you could
say the same thing with like Batman,

even though he would probably never
give a speech, you know, uh, emotionally

pulling, but, um, You know, it's, it's
those shortcuts that you can't take.

And that's a, that's a
good observation, I think.

And even you can kind of
drop in different characters.

And like you were saying earlier,
these two characters who would have

barely any, I don't even know if
they ever meet face to face maybe.

And that scene at end game when Peter has
the infinity gauntlet, but like, um, you

know, to have those do characters that
are so far away removed come together

and have this really, really, really
special moment, um, as, yeah, that's

Trey: cool.

Well, cause he even mentions like Mr.

Stark, which we have that, which is
it's, it's the most recent one, so

that, that tracks, but we have that
emotional connection from the movies.

Uh, he mentioned uncle Ben as well.

And that's something that's not
been established in the MCU.

It's just kind of been taken for granted,
I guess, or understood on a conscious

subconscious level for the audience.

So having that moment here,
where he groups it in with Mr.

Stark, it was just like, wow.

Like it made me pause and
realize how much Peter has lost.

Jude: Well, and I'm
glad they went that way.

Right.

With the, with the story.

Um, I mean, cause an alternative would
have been, I dunno, I mean, I guess

you could have had winter soldier
like shoot her in the head and Trey

would have thought it's over the top.

But um, so taking

Trey: punches left and right

Jude: in fairness, I know you weren't the
only one that thought it was over the top.

Right.

Uh, but no you're right.

It was, it is a wonderful moment.

I think that, um, well, I mean
again, I go back to there.

It was good to see hope,
get that much of a.

Right.

And be a team leader.

And it really sub that, that scene
and her making the sacrifice play

was, I think one of my favorite parts
of the episode, did any, did you

Nick: guys tear up when she
said smile for me theater?

Trey: Yeah.

What a deceivingly
emotional episode, right?

Jude: Yeah.

I will be honest because it's the zombie
genre and I know we're getting, you know,

we have our different segments as she
went, as she was getting overwhelmed.

And which of the ground?

Well, one of my first thoughts was.

Oh, she gonna like off herself, like,
so she doesn't turn into a zombie and

it's like, are they going to go there?

That was my first thought.

And then when she went to the
ground, I thought, oh no, she's still

like, so like, cause like, like I,
I, you could just see it coming.

Trey: That's a big red flag, right?

No, I thought that was so cool too.

The, the, again, the ed design B story,
they're stuck in an unfamiliar situation.

They don't know how to get out.

I love that the solution
was, Hey, why not?

Let hope go big and just carry
them across the hoard like that.

You know, that's something that
feels unique and not a usual

solution for stories like these.

So that was another one of those
twists that just was really fun to

watch unfold, which speaking of.

Nick.

How did you feel about that vision reveal?

Honestly,

Nick: it was like the last thing I was
expecting, you know, like, uh, I just,

it only showed up in like, oh, oh.

But like as soon as he popped up,
I was, I think I kind of felt like,

uh, uh, Bruce, you know, I just want
to kind of give him a hug way to go.

Of course.

Like I haven't seen you since you died.

So let me give you a hug, bro.

Like

Trey: yeah.

Visions inclusion to this is one
of those duh, like, it just makes

sense w after it's laid out, but it's
so well-placed that, I just didn't

think about it until it happened

Jude: too.

Huh?

Do we know when they, when
they wrote these and I'm just

wondering, I'm just curious.

Cause we had Wanda vision where
Wanda is bringing vision back.

Right.

And in this we have the.

So to speak.

And so I'm just curious if, if
that was intentional off of what

wine division was, you know,

Nick: also like, you know, if we're
undoing civil war, we're undoing infinity

war, we're talking that they've had,
oh, this is kind of gets into act

Trey: three.

That's fine.

Go ahead.

Go ahead.

It doesn't matter.

Yeah.

Jude: I, I kind of started
tiptoeing into that anyway, so,

Nick: well, they had way more time to
get there probably, uh, Wanda envision.

Cause they, they weren't,
they weren't split up.

They didn't have to hobby in secret.

They've probably had like a
full on relationship up until.

Yeah,

Trey: that's really good to note,
you know, it sounds like we're

tiptoeing into the last act.

So I'm going to say two quick things.

We can get fully transitioned to there.

The first thing I teased that
I had a NVP of this episode.

Oh yeah.

Scott Lang Scott Lang easily.

The NVP of this episode,
both in voice and character.

I've been thinking about it a lot.

Like, uh, we'll get to it eventually,
but Jude, you texted me a friend that had

some issues with the tone of the episode.

You know, everything is moving at
such a breakneck speed that sometimes

some of the sentimental moments
feel goofier than they should.

But I think Scott's humor is what
bridged the gap of the episodes tone.

Like he was able to play in those
silly spaces as well as some of

those harder hitting spaces as well.

So he was a fantastic
addition to the cast of this.

Jude: Yeah.

I it's interesting friend Daniel
mentioned to us that this was a future

Rama reference and I know he loved it.

What I'm really curious about is did
they let Paul Rudd just improvise

some of his lines in those jokes?

Because he's funny.

To

Trey: do it.

He's too charming.

Like it's unfair that one
person can be that charismatic.

Nick: I, uh, I often have this
conversation with my wife about how

charming Paula red is and how I've
made her kind of a fan of him as well.

And she's always just like, what
do you want to be as a boyfriend?

I'm like, maybe he's
very charming, you know?

And, and he does, he does so well
of carrying those beats between the

emotional plays and like being so funny.

And you see that in his movies that he's
done, like in the appetite universe and

then even in a end game, I think about
when he sees, um, his daughter, you know,

like that moment is so he plays that so
well, As a, as a father and just like,

as a father, myself, like that way, he
looks at her and like, even that line,

like, you're so big is a funny line,
but it's also like such an emotional,

like gut punch to have lost five years
with your daughter and like to all of

us and see her and like recognize her
and know a thousand percent that's

your daughter, but like, you're so big.

You're like,

Trey: Ugh.

And it's in his eyes too.

You can feel that pain and happiness just
in the look that he's giving his daughter.

He's incredible that I feel like we're
pivoting to like Scott me to Paul

Rogers as being an amazing person.

But yeah, I know,

Jude: right.

Like, like I started thinking,
wow, I need to go rewatch clueless.

Yeah.

So good.

It is.

I'm not kidding.

Like, it's fantastic.

Nick: So good.

Such a great actor, but yeah,
I mean, Trey, absolutely.

Like he, he does, he offers just
that, that comedic timing in there

and, and I'm sure that there are.

Hours worth of alts that he probably
took on those lines where they're

just like, uh, you know, they gave him
like, here's the line you say it this

way, do it three times once we get it.

And then he just probably
went off on like tangents.

Trey: Oh, what I would have give for
Hank to chew me out one more time.

Ah, there, I did it again.

That has to be improvised.

Well, I got one more point to make and
this'll transition as well into act three.

It's it's in the moments
where Bucky ventures off and

discovers Wanda on his own.

And right before he does that vision gives
a line where he's like Sergeant Barnes,

you won't find what you're looking for.

And there's kind of like this hesitation
to his voice, this paired with some

things that happens in the next act.

I think this is where the
episode felt the weakest for me.

Like I really, really enjoyed this
episode, but as much as I've been

praising, some of the ways they've
been blending, the genres of

superheroes and zombies, this one was
the one that I think felt the most.

Paint by the numbers where you know,
that half-hearted attempt to stop Bucky.

Uh, the ominously whispering
you've awakened her.

Like all these moments felt like
actions dictated by trope rather than

choices made by authentic characters.

And so that's where I really spelt this,
the speed of this episode picking up,

but I was already so bought in that
it didn't detract that much, but it's

something I wanted to highlight it since
I was praising some of the other stuff.

So highly,

Jude: well, I think you have a good
point, but I do like that they took

this opportunity to show a Scarlet
witch using powers without the, I

don't know what to call it, like the
zombified Scarlet, which, so you have

those powers, but you don't have.

Humanity that that's guiding it in a
particular way, if that makes sense.

Oh yeah.

Trey: Yeah.

And with that out, let's go ahead and
transition to act three, which actor is

going to take us from that moment where
Wanda is activated into the action of

the story all the way through the end.

And since it's, it's starting with
me this time, Jude to play off of

that, she is one of, if not the most
powerful character in the MCU, having

that inhibitions just taken away.

And it's just pure attack mode from Wanda.

Like I'm trying to find a
way to articulate what you're

saying as well about that.

You, you just have pure, it's
not rage, but just completely,

always on the offensive.

It's a horrifying thought because
there are no restrictions for her.

And it's it ramps up the fear I
had for a protagonist, like two 11.

Why do you

Nick: think visually, let lucky go.

Trey: Yeah.

See, that's what I was getting at.

Like, I didn't quite, it didn't
feel like anything that was

motivated by character choice.

It just felt like, okay, we
need this to be revealed.

So he let them go.

But Nick you're right.

Like what he knew, what he'd find,
why didn't he put up a fight?

Nick: Do you think he was like guilty?

Or do you think he just needed to
get them separated or like, or was

it, do you think it was just like,
we need to move the story forward?

Jude: Um, you know what?

I, honestly, I think it, and it felt
like we needed to move the story

forward, um, which is unfortunate
because I think they had a better out,

uh, you, they could have had vision,
try to stall Bucky and coy a could

have had some kind of Wakanda and tech.

Beep go off because the child is
in the area and then she takes off

running for looking for challah.

And so even a vision said,
wait, she's not gonna listen.

And that gets you a character going
out and coming across Scarlet, witch,

and vision, you know, trying to prevent
that or prevent them from finding out.

Do you think

Nick: he was trying to feed him to her?

Like, cause he said like
she hasn't eaten in days.

Like, do you think he was like, you're
not going to find what you're looking

for, but you're probably gonna die.

Like he was like trying to like,

Jude: you know what it's possible?

Like, like maybe it could be,
that's why he let him go as

well thinking like she needs to

Trey: eat.

So th this is what cause to
answer your question, Nick.

I mean, I think I made it clear
where I fall and it just being

dictated by needing to move forward.

I really enjoy the way you framed it as
a possible meeting them halfway where

vision might be feeling a little guilty.

You know, he has that scene where
he eventually gives himself up

and takes the mind stone out so
that they can move forward, but

he can't live with what he's done.

So the, I think there is some
truth to that feeling guilty

and wanting to be caught.

And that's why he let Bucky go.

So if I can meet the episode halfway,
I like your point a lot there.

It

Nick: helps me just kind of like, you
know, like, excuse maybe what could

have been, you know, for like yeah.

Maybe visions, like feeling

Jude: a little guilty.

Yeah.

But I do find that interesting
because in the moment for me

watching it, I didn't know.

It didn't take me out of it.

And I think it just goes back to the
stuff that me, or, you know, people are

willing to let go and animated shows.

Trey: I think there's a lot of
suspension of disbelief that

this episode asks of us, which

Jude: is okay.

And I'm willing to give that
on, on, on these, you know,

there's, I don't know what it is.

There's something about animated
cartoons that, that we let more go

than we do with live action things.

When we know it's clearly

Trey: fictional.

You know, another thing that I wanted
to zone in on is as the story progresses

and we see our heroes one by one, we
picked off, uh, from Wanda attacking.

There's a moment where Bruce goes into
the fray and he almost gets bitten, but

the whole transforms and it saves him.

And so that was the moment where
he learns like, okay, all right, I

can, I can get through it this way.

And he goes, charging headfirst in
is eventually overrun by zombies.

And he has that moment where he transforms
fully and starts taking them out.

This episode gave us that celebratory
Hulk moment that we should have gotten in

either of the last two Avengers movies.

And I'm so glad we got it here.

Nick: Also made me think
of, uh, in Ragnarok where he

jumps out of the helicopter.

Yes.

And like falls onto the bridge.

And we also know that like, you
know, when he tried to shoot

himself in the mouth, like he's like
the big guy spit the bullet out.

Is it can Bruce banner not die?

Like cause when he fell out of that,
um, out of the helicopter or the

spaceship, like he probably would
have broken some bones of that fall.

Like when he transforms, it transforms
in a Hawk to think he just like

heals all of his manly wounds too.

Like, I don't know.

Cause like when he fell, like
he fell and plopped onto the

bridge and then then transformed.

Yeah.

Jude: Hmm.

That's a good question.

I'm not sure on that.

It's like a healing factor,
but I don't know if he

officially has a healing factor.

Trey: Yeah.

I guess not

Jude: now getting into
the minutia of comics.

So like if, if Bruce banner turns into
a zombie, does hope turn into a zombie

Trey: based on the Funko pops I've seen.

Yes,

no, you know, it reminds
me of, and I'm going to.

But there was a quote about Stanley where
I think somebody had written into about

like, Hey, in this fight, who would win.

And he mentioned whoever
the writers wanted to win.

Like, it's just like, it's the story.

It dictates whoever, like whoever
wins is the person that the story is

making the most impactful moment about.

So not, not to like completely put out the
fun of trying to speculate, but I think

it's just different runs take different
stabs of how that stuff plays out.

Nick: Yeah.

I think that's that's yeah.

I mean, we're, we're, we're talking
about a zombie episode here.

Like we can suspend the disbelief
just like Judy said, you know?

Yeah.

Jude: Well, but I mean, if you think
about the zombie genre and the number

of characters that died along the way,
um, and me thinking about watching the

walking dead, which I only got a certain
number of seasons, there was more main

characters killed in this one episode.

Then what walking dead did
over a couple of seasons.

They definitely were not shy.

I mean, by the end, that was
what, by the end, it was, you

know, at man's head Peter and

Nick: who was the other one at the

Jude: challah?

Black Panther to challah missing a leg.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, like that's the only three
left, you know, vision wasn't there.

Oh my God.

What a way to do it?

The thinnest way to himself.

Yeah.

Trey: And either they sampled his
scream from infinity war, or he's

incredible to be able to do that
again in the recording booth.

Nick: Nick, I wonder why I was, I wonder
if, um, oh gosh, the name just left me.

Paul Bettany, uh, having done so much
voice work as Jarvis before previously

was really like, uh, So good at
doing just like voice work that he

was able to just really harness it.

Cause I thought he did a great
job, um, with his character.

Um, you know, having done that for
however many years, just as a voice

to come in and now just like kind of
nailed the voice takes like, you know,

I wonder if he was just good enough
to pull that out again, you know,

Jude: I imagine

Trey: so Nick, I'm glad you
brought that up for two reasons.

The first reason I totally forgot
Paul Brittany's name as well.

So you just jogged my memory and then
too, that's a really good point because

like I'm throughout the entirety of this
series, I am keeping it in the back of

my head of like, okay, who has the most
experience of contributing a, a voice to

a non-physical presence and you're right.

He, he had a lot of experience
with Jarvis and I'm almost

positive that has to translate.

I think

Jude: across the board though, this was a
really good or our voice acted very well.

Yeah.

Trey: You know, I want to circle back
to a point you were making Jude about

by the end of the episode, we're left
with only three of our survivors.

I gotta be honest.

I didn't have a lot of notes in this
episode or this act I should say.

And part of it was, I wrote this cliff
hangers and my one-off like, what is this?

Like, we had Bucky being sent, flying off.

We had hope versus Wanda.

And then we had them arriving
at Macondo with dominoes.

And it left me wondering of like, are
we ever going to return to this or do we

read it as the people who were isolated,
like Bucky or hope, or they just gunners

and Peter to challah and Scott, our last
three remaining fighters by the end?

I think so.

You don't think we'll
ever see a return to this?

I

Jude: really don't.

I mean, unless that's what
season two turns into picking

up where all these left.

Trey: What about you,

Nick: Nick?

What do you guys, so I was going to save
this for stray thoughts, but, um, do you

guys like the zombie genre of movies?

Trey: Yes.

Well, I don't think I quite have zombie
fatigue, but I am at the point where I've

seen so many zombie stories that it has to
be really well done for me to be invested.

So I don't hate it, but I'm a lot
more pickier than I used to be.

So

Jude: my experience of
zombies was in Vegas

Trey: is going to be

sorry.

Jude: Oh my gosh.

Um, my experience with zombie John
rhe is kind of limited actually.

Like I remember wanting to see this
in the theater and my dad brought

me and it was the remake of night.

And, and remake might
not even be accurate.

Cause I think they did it kind of
shot for shot, but just in color,

you know, uh, unlike the black,
the original black and white.

So I saw that in the theater.

Um, I remember seeing the movie, the
serpent and the rainbow, which was a

1988 movie, but the zombies in this was
much more the, the voodoo type zombie.

It's not the zombie genre.

Most people are familiar with.

I watched walking dead.

I love Shaun of the dead and I saw
world war Z, but never read the book.

So I didn't have issues.

Well, I wouldn't say I didn't have issues.

Didn't have issues with the movie.

I didn't have the same issues with the
movie as, uh, people that read the book.

Other than that, like I typically
horror movie wise prefer.

The culture, Geist, ghost demonic, kinda.

You don't see them, the
conjuring type stuff.

Um, if that makes sense.

So, you know, and then, and then my wife,
as much as like she grew up on horror

movies, uh, cause her mom loves him.

Just doesn't like this zombies
is the one thing that scares her.

And it's so weird.

Zombies is the one thing that scares her.

So she doesn't really want to watch it.

And my fifth grader who gets freaked out.

When my oldest is watching
criminal minds, doesn't get

bothered one bit at all by zombies.

She's like, yeah, whatever.

Like, so yeah.

Um, I have a weird
relationship with zombies.

Well,

Nick: you know, one of the things that I
think is kind of a trope of these zombie

movies is that last sting, you know, that
lasts like the heroes have made it this

far, you kind of left with this hope at
the end that were like, you know, a bunch

of people, a bunch of the, you know,
the ragtag crew has passed sacrificing

themselves, all these kind of tropes that
we've talked about through the episode

and they get to the end credits roll.

And then all of a sudden you're watching
a found footage of them running away.

They finally getting to the island,
like I'm thinking, uh, uh, Zack

Snyder's Dawn of the dead, you know,
they finally make it away off the boat.

Uh, there's been a huge, uh, and
then, uh, there's the found footage

where there's zombies on the island,
you know, it's like, oh, okay.

So, and I kind of, I like that when
in a, in a lot of zombie movies, I

feel like when we're dealing with
zombie apocalypse, a lot of the time.

It's like, you see this little chapter,
but the apocalypse of the zombies still

happened and like everyone's still died.

And I kind of like that, that I feel
like that is a trip of zombie movies.

And so for them to kind of do that as
far as like, you think we're all good.

And then at the end, here's the little
stinger, like, Nope, it's, it's still

the apocalypse and it's still messed up.

And now not only is these army
apocalypse, but they notice is there.

And so I don't necessarily think
we're going to see it in season two.

I think it's, I thought I personally
thought of it as like, this is another

homage to the genre of like, Ha you had
all this hope, but like it's still the

apocalypse, there's still zombies and
it's still over, you know what I mean?

Trey: I do like that.

They kind of leave it up to interpretation
because it does play into that space

of, of, Hey, here, you thought the
day was saved, but here's the dread

that persists because that is the
embodiment of what zombies are.

They are this never ending force that
does not tire and never wanes and is

always taking presence in your mind.

And so it doesn't capsulate that, but
the message that they're also spreading

is the hope that remains within
that brutal beating of that feeling.

So, yeah, like it it's, I guess that's
me choosing to read it that way,

because I can't go to back to back
hopeless episodes after, after Dr.

Strange being in trapped for
eternity to realize this mistake.

Like, I think, I don't know.

I want to envision that.

Sir plant banjos and
are able to save the day

Jude: again.

Um, new type Nova on Instagram
actually reached out to us and asked

how did they to claim all the stones
and still be zombified, zombified?

Um, how did he get the time stone?

Which, I mean, part of me
wants to, I, I just, okay.

It's cartoon.

I'm going to let it go.

Um, but it's, what if there actually
probably was a way that he got him,

you know, probably, you know, a mix
of like, well, the Avengers did, you

know, die off and become zombies.

Um, but it does add to that dread
that not just as Stan hosts it,

you know, and he has all the stones
and just capable of using them.

Uh, but, but I didn't think
that was interesting question.

How did he get the stones?

Um, you know, and.

I don't know, part of me kind of wants
to see that, like, that, that journey,

you know, he's right there about to snap
and then it gets a bit, so he can't,

Nick: uh, well timeline wise
because this, uh, the zombie

apocalypse takes place right.

At roughly around the exact same time
or right before the snap happens.

So in theory, he could have
already had most of the stones

right before he got zombified.

Trey: Right.

Yeah.

So that was, that was part of the
question of like, how did it happen?

And I.

From my understanding, cause you're
right, this does take place and kind

of that infinity war, uh, timeframe, I
assume everything space side happened.

Like it happened in the movie except
probably easier for Thanos to get

the reality stone and the space
stone because Tony and Steven and

Peter Parker were not there to help
the guardians fend off on a Titan.

And we saw how Dan has already
steamrolled them on nowhere.

So I'm pretty sure he gets all the stones
he got prior to earth fairly easily.

Uh, the time stone I'm assuming was
still in the eye of Agamotto and we know

that strange is already taken care of.

So I assumed that one was pretty
easy as well, which I think

just leaves the mind stone.

Nick: Uh, so my last kind of thought
about act three was the, I, you know,

I, I took as many notes as I can,
but the one that got circled like

90 times was, did you guys hear the

Trey: millennium Falcon?

No.

Well, wait, are you serious?

Nick: Yeah.

Jus did you hear the money

Jude: in Falcon?

I missed that

Nick: when, when the get on the ship to
leave, um, there's the, the, I don't know

if they're turning it on it's when to
cellos, like, can you drive this thing?

And he's like, I think so they started
on, and it does the millennium Falcon.

I'm not going to go to
hyper-drive wine, but

,
Jude: I'll go back and
check that out again.

I completely missed that.

Trey: That's an amazing catch
and impression, but that's,

I,

Nick: I was just listening and
they're like the money Falcon noise.

That's amazing.

And like wrote it down in my notes and

Jude: circled it.

Oh, wow.

Definitely going to go catch that again.

I

Trey: imagine I imagine you
like the Leonardo DiCaprio meme,

just pointing at the screen.

Yeah,

Nick: totally.

And I, I almost like Jude,
uh, I was texted you.

Um, but I was like, I need to save it for
the pod because of course they heard it.

And of course we're all gonna laugh about

Jude: it.

Oh no, I'm going to have to go find it.

Trey: Yeah.

Um, I'm so glad you joined us.

That would have been
completely lost on us.

Nick: I would have, I would have, uh,
messaged you listening to the pod.

Trey: See, this is how we know
you're a three timer at this point.

You you've fallen into that feeling
of like, I want to talk to my friends,

but I have to wait until it's recorded.

Well, yeah, that's really cool, man.

Thanks for bringing that

Nick: up.

Yeah, definitely go
back and listen for it.

It's there.

It's a right.

Yeah.

Right there at the end where
they were turning on the ship.

Trey: Well, I think that's going to wrap
it up for act three, which means all

we've got left is our stray thoughts.

So, uh, starting with you, Nick, do you
have any stray thoughts for this episode?

Nick: I'm just really excited
to kind of see what's next.

Um, you know, this, you know, like we've
talked about pretty much all this time,

this really did kind of reset the bar for
the way they're telling the stories and

how they're kind of letting the stories
stay into their own and not, you know,

having to rehash, um, you know, like what
happened before or anything like that.

They're really just
kind of dropping us in.

So I'm really excited to see, you
know, what's, what's next with what

if, you know, and, um, going back to
the last episode, like, I feel like

there wasn't as much watcher in this
one as far as like, where we wondering

that's the Watchers ever gonna like
step in and do something, you know?

Um, and then having this one kind of
mold, the MCU, regular timeline with

this new timeline, I'm really, they're
really kind of starting to get to this

point where if they're going to do
something that's going to connect at

all, I'm really excited to see, and
it feels like it's, it's coming soon.

Jude: I'm wondering, we keep
talking about that to you.

If we get to the end of this and
they don't have kind of a through

thread, you know, um, is that gonna.

Maybe disappointing or change how
you viewed these episodes as a whole.

Nick: For me, I'm not going
to be disappointed at all.

And it actually would make me even
more excited for a season two,

because if they, if they do a season
two, I love these little vignettes.

I think they're really cool.

And I think it really fits the
whole, what if, you know, as far as

like the comics went as well, like
just these one-offs like, yeah.

What if, like, let's just talk about like
the quick, you know, repercussions of

these small changes or these big changes.

And I think it's, it's just a cool
idea and a cool way for you to just

kind of get these stories out and
not have to connect everything.

Um, if it is connected,
I'm going to be stoked.

And if it's not, I'm still totally

Trey: in for me.

If there is a threat,
if there isn't a thing.

I hope that emboldens them to be more
brazen with the story that they're

trying to tell, because right now it
does feel like they're clinging on to

the prime timeline a little bit too much.

And the ones I enjoy the most is
the one that breaks away from that.

So if we get to the end of this and
there isn't a through line season two,

I think definitely has to take us from
step in towards a firm's step towards

the Wilder side of the possibilities for

Jude: me.

Well, I, it makes me wonder when,
when you say that when you consider

what they're pulling from, you know,
I mean to have the, what if it you're,

you have to pull from something
that's already been established.

Right.

But in season two, what I think is
going to be exciting is that we're

going to get well, I'm assuming,
because it's out there now.

Um, you can have.

And what if a black widow or what if
a for shank shanky, um, you can have

a, what if off the Disney plus shows
maybe, you know, like, like those will

be on the table now, which would be, you
know, an exciting territory, just take

Nick: it.

Like what if low-key and, uh, had
killed the king and the end of

the low-key you know, like, yeah.

Oh yeah.

Jude: Yeah.

That's interesting.

What if, I don't know if the
new cap didn't stop the truck.

Trey: All right, dude.

One other strange thoughts.

Jude: Uh, honestly you ever straight
taught, uh, kind of similar to what Nick

just said it towards the end catching
the millennium Falcon mean at which I

realized I wasn't straight thought, but
I saw somewhere where somebody said.

They spotted Deadpool as a Somby what,
um, it was a little bit of a stretch,

uh, and admitted, but it was like
one of the zombies looked like it

had double swords, like off the back.

Um, and there was speculation
that that was Deadpool.

Uh, so I'm not sure I'd have to go look.

Um, and it could be again, just
the wishful thinking, you know,

oh, look, there's my Festo.

Um, you know, it, it would be, Hmm, well,
it might not be, I wouldn't pass, put

it past Marvel for that to be the case.

So that's, that's kinda my stray thought,
just wondering, you know, is where are

there get pool or any other kind of
Easter eggs within the zombies themselves?

It

Trey: felt like this would be a perfect
place to put stuff like that in there,

because there's no rule that says
the mutants have to be live action

first, you can kind of slow roll.

Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah.

Jude: And there's no rule as a, what
if for them to, you know, have to,

to make sense within the rest of the
MCU, because we're just pondering.

What if, what if,

Trey: well, for me, I got
a couple of stray thoughts.

I'll run through them pretty quickly.

Uh, first one, uh, whenever
banner is picked up by Peter

Parker, he's going, don't eat me.

Don't eat me.

Don't eat me.

That's a funny moment on its own.

But it made me realize banner has
no idea who Spider-Man is, which

makes his fear that much funnier to
me because in infinity war, he goes,

we have an ant man and a Spiderman.

So it lines up perfectly
with what banner knows.

And I love that.

He's just so afraid of him.

Uh, another straight thought, you know,
we talked about the video earlier.

Uh, something that stood out
to me is that a lot of the.

Levity and hope rests on the shoulders
of Spiderman in this episode.

And it's very visually indicated
by in that video that he makes all

the participants he gets, except
for Kurt are begrudgingly helping

him put together this video.

And it gives such a nice snapshot of
like under the weight of the apocalypse.

They know this is silly, but they're
still giving into the whims of Peter

Parker who was just having fun with it.

And I like that.

That's just a nice little microcosm
of the thing they're trying to tell.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jude: Oh one last one.

That stray thought Baba Yaga.

Oh

Trey: man.

Yeah, I had that written down too.

It's so I love that
that's getting legs here.

This, uh, this episode.

Wait,

Nick: wait.

But you know, it's uh, cause he refers
to ghost and Amy and two is Baba

Yaga, but eight and two wouldn't have
happened the same way because, or

would it, would he just be calling?

This is Bobby August.

Trey: That's a good point.

I don't think the events of man
or the wasp happen because I did,

Nick: because it did cause they
that's where the, the, the quantum

realm is where the virus came from.

Oh, that's a good

Trey: point.

Yeah.

I recant what I said.

So I

Nick: wonder if ghost
exists in this universe.

Hmm huh.

Anyway, just a straight
thought off your straight line.

Trey: Uh, a couple more, uh, Peter
has the pop culture, meadow horror

commentary character is perfect.

We know he already has that love
for pop culture and I'd like that

he becomes that character in that.

Um, w and speak one more on Peter
Parker, Hudson themes as Peter Parker,

I think did a really incredible job
voice-wise he captured that familiarity

of Tom Holland while also again,
being something on its own finally.

Nick: Well, he did, he
did such a good job.

I just now realized
that wasn't Tom Holland.

Trey: Oh, wow.

Jude: Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Like, like he did such a good job at it.

Not just that it wasn't Tom Holland.

I, I do get a little bit annoyed.

I see some headlines and they're
very clickbait headlines that are

like the new Spiderman actor, you
know, or Tom Holland's replacement.

And I'm just like, no, he, yeah.

Um, wow.

Nick: He did great.

I honestly thought it was Tom Wallen.

Trey: Yeah.

He's got that excitement to
his voice that Tom Holland.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

I wonder what if yucky
going, I'm going to, I'm just

curious to what else he's been

Trey: in.

Okay.

Uh, I got one more.

There's a moment where vision is directing
the remaining heroes, where to go.

And he says, there's a
quad jet in the hanger.

Am I being over analytical about this?

Or why did he call it a quad
jet instead of a Quinjet?

Nick: Cause there's, is that a five?

Because I'm guessing it's
a different universe.

Okay.

That's a good catch.

That's a really good catch because
I heard him say it, but I didn't

think about it, but now you're

Jude: saying it like, yeah, I got, I got
nothing on that, but yeah, you're right.

Wow.

Well,

Nick: that's a good, that's a good

Trey: catch.

It just stood out to me cause it was
like, I'm so used to them referring

to it as the Quinjet and it's just
a fun look at the alternate universe

of like now they use quad jets here.

They're not, they're not
a Quinjet rated universe.

Nick: Uh huh.

Trey: Also this I'm buying some time for
Jude if he's still looking, but you're

Jude: reminded what I'm looking,
but there's nothing on there that

I see is like, oh, you played
somebody in criminal minds.

Um, you know, you played late like
individual TV series, TV series,

you know, a lot of TV series, one to
one or two episodes here or there.

Um, and then like an episode in mad
men, couple of episodes where he had a

recurring role for about four or five
episodes, but nothing that I'm, that for

me personally is like really sticking out.

It's like, oh, he was in
that, you know, um, this

Nick: is, uh, kind of a throwaway,
but apparently in captain

Marvel, there's a quad jet.

Trey: Uh, so

Nick: nevermind, it's too interesting.

But then it makes you think like, why is
there a quadrat there not a Quinjet like

what happened in this timeline to make
it so they didn't adopt Quinn Quinn jets.

It is a fun

Trey: rabbit hole.

Well, that's going to do it for our stray
thought, but like we did it last week.

We're going to read through some of the
user submitted first takes that we got

for this episode, starting with kin.

Uh, we got this one in that says it's
a good mix of humor, sadness, and hope.

I guess this is getting a second part
or I hope it gets one once again,

ant man is the most dangerous hero.

I think that's playing back to
what you were saying earlier, Nick.

Jude: Yes.

Nick: Truly,

Jude: truly dangerous.

And also like what y'all were saying
about, you know, wanting to see

what happens to these three, you
know, um, you know, I hate to just

see this one on a cliff anchor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, our next rule we got is from a
cousin, uh, Paul, uh, I just finished it.

Wasn't my favorite.

And it was kind of totally weird.

Maybe abject despair wouldn't work in
something like this, but all of the

jokes that happened, anytime, one of
their friends, even if they were zombies,

uh, was killed, just felt wrong to me.

If it weren't for the tone issues I had, I
would have really liked this, uh, because

of the idea of heroes still maintaining
their powers as zombies is a ton of fun.

Trey: Yeah.

Yeah.

This was the one that got me really
thinking about tone because it wasn't

something that I was immediately
drawn to as being distracting

and my first watch through.

But I think he does have a point that they
are playing with tone in a, in a goofy

way, because even, even in the moment
where a coy slices salmon half, and she

says, I'm sorry, that's your friend.

He responds with a joke that says
I should feel sad, but I don't.

And it's just.

Okay.

Yeah.

I see where Paul's coming from.

Yeah.

Uh, the next one we got in is from Ben
Mattie on Instagram, which says love.

The episode, felt like a whole
zombie film in half an hour.

Definitely want another one too.

And then it cut off, but they
messaged us on Instagram to say,

I didn't realize there was only
so much you could type in these.

I'd definitely want another minute.

I definitely want another episode to
wrap things up or maybe a whole animated

show or movie Ben, if you really

Nick: enjoy the zombie, uh, Marvel
stuff, I strongly suggest you

pick up the Marvel zombies comics.

They are wonderful.

And they will kind of give you
what I think you are looking for.

Go ahead and pick it up.

Jude: Yeah.

Those are really, really good.

Really popular.

Trey: Yeah.

Nick, I always forget.

You're you're such a great resource.

When it comes to comics, you
have a good knowledge of them.

Is there any particular
zombie story that stands out?

Uh, the first one,

Nick: like really kind of where they, um,
they introduced the whole idea of marbles.

Armies is really fun and really
like it's silly and over the top

and gory and just kind of like wild.

Uh, but they're really fun.

Also the DC zombies.

I know we don't talk a lot about DC.

I know.

Oh, I'm just gonna

Trey: let me play myself.

Nick: Um, but the DCS army ones
is also really, really fun too.

Um, but if you enjoy the whole zombie
Marvel thing, definitely check them out.

I think, I think a lot of them do
interconnect, uh, but they're fun.

Jude: Nice.

The next one, we have
fun and creepy from Fran.

Daniel.

Yeah.

Fun and

Trey: creepy.

I think that, I think it's surprising how.

Horrific this episode was able
to get being silly as well.

Like they did pull off some of
the horror aspects of this too.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

And finally, this one comes in from
our friend TK over on, there was an

idea of Marvel cinematic universe
podcast, where she says, I said this

on my episode, but man, I would have
loved to be ant man or a wasp on the

wall and the writer's room that came
up with the team and this episode.

So yeah, I think I'm kind of in
that similar vein of appreciating

the dynamics, they were able to
pull off between the team here.

Yeah, yeah.

And super excited to get, to check her
episode out because as of this recording,

I think she just put it out today.

So we'll be sure to link to
that in the show notes as well.

Nice.

Well, yeah.

Well, Nick, I just want to say thank you
so much for doing this man as always.

It has been so much fun
getting to chat MCU.

Nick: It's always so fun to come
on here and be with you guys.

Uh, I just, I love getting the texts
from Trey where it's like, Hey, do

you want to come on another episode?

It's always like, yes.

When can I come on?

Jude: It's so much fun
to talk with you guys.

Thank you so much.

And just while you're on the,
what you did in the turnaround

for our bonus episode was amazing.

Thank you so much.

Nick: Yeah, absolutely.

It was, it was just one of
those things that, you know, Jay

texted me like, Hey, no pressure.

Can you like come up with
another one of these things?

I don't know a

Jude: day.

Trey: Yeah, no heads up, no warning.

Just like, Hey, do this one.

So sorry to thank you so much.

Nick: Yeah, that was so fun.

I loved, I loved the challenge of it.

So it

Jude: was cool.

Trey: Yeah, of course.

If you want, you should definitely be
following Nick Sandy across the internet.

You can find them on Twitter
at Nick underscore Sandy.

Or if you want to check out some
of his photography, you can find

Nick underscore, Sandy photography.

Lot of great photos, a lot of great
work, definitely worth a follow.

As for us, you can always
find us on social media.

MCU need to know on Twitter and
Instagram, uh, we've been doing a lot

of work to put up some bonus content.

So stuff that you won't find in this
episode, but little extra goodies that you

can find on those feeds as well as earlier
access to some of our quick thoughts.

So we don't put these episodes out
until the Monday after the episode

airs, but if you want to know what
we think before then you can always

follow us on those accounts to get a
little taste of what we thought of the.

Jude: And of course, if you come join
the discord, uh, you can speak with

us, uh, and about these episodes as
we go, uh, make sure when you're there

you go to the role of sign, click on
the eye, emoji, that way you'll get

access to all the spoiler channels.

Also, we'd really appreciate it.

If you give us a rating and review
the feedback is always helpful.

And of course, if you'd like what
you're listening to please, you

know, share with a friend and
let's have a larger conversation.

Trey: Yeah.

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for
the use of our theme song, which is

his rendition of the Avengers theme.

You can find more of his work
on his SoundCloud, which is

linked in the show notes as well.

Well, that's going to do it.

Thank you so much for
listening, Nick and Jude.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you, Trey.

Jude: Thanks so much for having me.

Trey: Yeah.

Thank you, Nick.

We'll see you all next week.

Jude: Hmm.

Oh, wait my, just drop

Trey: my mic real quick.

Okay.

Were you coming in with some dude?

Nope.

Oh,

Jude: I thought you said, wait, wait.

No.

When you usually train, when
you do the mic drop, you're

signaling, you're leaving like,

Trey: oh, I didn't hear you say mic
drop that's when they cut out and I was

running, that was weird that Nick is
like, let me just drop my microphone.

I was like, okay.

Jude: Oh, I didn't hear that at all.

Trey: It's like, yeah, go on flex Nick.

I like it.

Jude: Okay.