Trey: Hello and welcome back to another
episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast

dedicated to the Marvel cinematic
universe and everything you need to know.

I'm Trey.

Jude: I'm Jude.

How are you doing Trey?

Trey: Well, dude, I'm excited because
today we get to bring back the man whose

musical talent opens and closes the show.

And whose name has become
the definitive mic drop.

We're delighted to welcome
back, Nick Sandy to the vodcast.

Welcome Nick.

How's it going guys?

Jude: Dude.

Well, how are you

Nick: doing Nick?

I'm doing great.

I'm excited to be back and excited
to, to talk some brackets with you

Jude: guys.

Yes.

We've been

Trey: looking forward to this.

This has been an episode, a couple of
months in the making and I am so thrilled.

Not only that we're finally getting to do
it, but that you are joining us for this

particular episode, because there's going
to be a lot of discussions and potential

mediating, and you are starting to develop
a pattern where you're coming in to help

us mediate after our most heated episodes.

So of course you were there for the
truck fiasco, and I know you're not

caught up, but you were coming in
after one of our second, most heated

episodes, the multi-verse of madness.

So we didn't really

Jude: argue,

Trey: well, it was heated.

Jude: I'm not saying it wasn't heated.

I'm just saying.

It's like, you didn't disagree with me.

You might not have gone as far as I did.

Nick: You guys need to make like the
tier list when, you know, when money,

when multi-verse came out of madness.

And I was like, you must listen
to these episodes first, before

you watched this episode.

Jude: Yeah.

Right.

It just gives you a sense of what
that episode was like, that we're

not even agreeing on whether
or not we agree how it was.

Trey: So whenever you do get caught
up with the podcast, you're going

to come in and help us expand.

Nick: I do have a degree in psychology
and I did want to be a counselor.

So this is just how I'm
getting to use my education.

Trey: There's a part of me that
loves that because that's amazing.

And also partnering that's laughing
because I remember when you came in

on the Falcon and the winter soldier
episode, you specifically said you were

taking both sides just to stir things up.

It's true.

It's true.

So, of course, if you downloaded
this episode, you know, we're going

to be talking about the trilogies
and the Marvel cinematic universe.

But before we get there, I just
wanted to take a quick temp.

Sandy, we've got Xi Hoke, miss Marvel
and Thor love and thunder on the horizon.

Are any of those entries sticking

Nick: out to you?

Thor 11th, thunder just
looks like so much fun.

It's so cool to see Jane Foster back and
she looks buff and I'm really interested

to see if they're going to go with some
of the comic accurate storylines with her.

Um, I'm really, really excited about that.

Plus Thor is one of my
son's favorite characters.

And so, uh, I'm hoping, you
know, that we can take that.

I can take him to the
theater and see it with them.

We did, we saw Shanghai in the
theater, uh, after, after you guys

recommended, you know, Judy, you
had told me that I should do that.

And so we did, and it was great
and it was really good experience.

I'm hoping to get a chance to see
it first and then, or have one

of you guys see it and tell me if
it's going to be appropriate enough

for my, my five-year-old, but, uh,
yeah, I'm really excited about.

Trey: Yeah.

Have you seen the new trailer?

I did see the

Nick: new trailer, so I did.

Yeah.

Trey: So we'll see.

We'll

Jude: see.

Well, I was gonna say it was in
between the, the new trailers,

but they blur things out.

It's, you know, listen, it

Trey: happens.

It's it's all, it's all nice.

And pixelated.

So, and it was a quick guy.

Nick: Yeah.

And it's all, he hasn't
seen that before, you know?

Trey: Yeah.

Yeah.

That, that trailer specifically looks
like Ragnar rock just turned two 11.

So I am 100% waiting, uh, not too long of
a wait because that's coming out in July.

So that's not too far off.

Jude: And it's not, that'll be here quick.

And then

Nick: Trey, you know, we had talked off
pod, but she, it looks really interesting

and I'm really very interested to see,
like, where are they going to take that?

And I would literally, right before I
got on, uh, to record a few guys, like

I saw an article, it was like Disney
has fixed the CGI and she, and had some

side-by-sides, uh, comparisons of what
we saw the first trailer versus what

we can expect in the actual series.

So that gives me some hope as well,
moving forward that, that series that

they, they put some more love into it.

Yeah.

That's

Trey: really exciting to see, because I
think I saw a similar article and it was

like comparing the compression of YouTube
versus I don't know where they got it,

but it had a Disney plus logo in it.

So it was a higher quality resolution.

And I saw it too.

Like, it's, it's a very distinct
but subtle upgrade versus what

was in that original trailer.

So that's nice to see that it is getting
some, uh, attention before release.

Jude: I do wonder.

No cause, cause I think we, we even
mentioned it speculated a lot of times

that does happen in general, right?

Like where there is the trailer,
isn't the final rendering.

Um, and so I, I am curious to what
extent this was a mix of final rendering

and kind of that Sonic the hedgehog.

Thing where the fans are like, no,
and they're like, okay, we'll fix it.

Oh, Sonic the hedgehog.

I'm just saying,

Trey: right.

I'm not disagreeing.

I'm just like, what does it feel like
for that franchise to, because it becomes

synonymous, which has bad CGI impression.

Nick: Have you, if you haven't
seen the new chip and Dale movie,

um, it's, it's, uh, it's like a
fever dream and like a love letter

to Roger rabbit, but, uh, just.

If you are going to plant a seed, I won't
say anything more, but your, your comment

about Sonic being synonymous with CG
made me think of a scene in Chippendale.

So it's worth checking out,
honestly, it's, it's not as bad

as it, as you would think it would

Jude: be all right.

I will check it out.

Well.

Yeah.

Well,

Trey: thank you so much for that
quick temp of the upcoming MCU slate.

But like I said, if you downloaded this
episode, you'd already be talking about

what is the best trilogy movie and the
Marvel cinematic universe, the way we're

going to handle this is we're going
to create a tournament style bracket,

where we are going to pit every movie
from captain America, iron man Thor.

And Spider-Man.

Into this bracket and we're going
to bait until we have one winner.

Specifically, we have a randomized
BRACA generator that we're going to use.

I'm also going to send it
to both you Jude and Nick.

So we can watch this as we go along.

We'll have five minutes per
round to come to a consensus.

And if not, we'll cast a vote
and whoever has the most votes,

we'll move on to the next round.

So I specifically waited until we
were in the recording so I could get

a genuine reaction alongside you guys.

So I'm going to go ahead and do that now.

So I'm using a website
called common ninja.com.

I've already put in the entries.

I'm going to go ahead and hit randomized.

I sent it to you, Jude and
Nick, let me know if you get it.

And if you were seeing it,

Jude: got the textile, open it up.

Here we go.

Awesome.

Okay.

Trey: All right.

We've got some interesting matchups here.

Jude: Okay.

It's not just the interesting matchups.

It's the buys.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's the ones that make it to make
it to the second round on a by,

Trey: oh no, I don't
know how that happened.

So I say let's go ahead and leave that
a mystery for people to find out what's

on the second round as it happens.

Okay.

All right.

Well, starting with our first
round and I'm going to throw to

you first to open it up, Nick.

I'll give you a heads up.

Whenever I start the timer, the
first round is going to feature

Thor and Spider-Man homecoming
and I'm starting the timer.

Now,

Nick: obviously we have to go
with Thor based on the blonde

eyelash blonde eyebrows alone.

Right.

That's gotta be the better movie.

No, I'm kidding.

Uh, it's my, it's my rent.

Jude: Okay.

Well, hold on here.

There's a core character, right?

And so as

Trey: Spiderman,

Jude: I mean, okay.

I know I'm a Spider-Man fan, but
hold on Thor, go from phase one and

we're about to get a fourth store.

That's true.

Like he's really hit his stride.

Because of Thor, we're
getting Jane Foster.

Nick: So yeah, I mean, you're right.

Jane Foster, isn't that movie.

There's a lot of really
great stuff in there.

And we'd be like, Chuck is in that movie.

And, um, and it does like set off a lot
of stuff and it does have a lot to do

with like the overarching Avengers thing.

And he's the first one to get the
fourth, the first solo care to

get the fourth movie coming out.

So you

Jude: may have to

Trey: spin-offs to
spin-offs low key season.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

You're stirring to win me over.

And I got to say there would not
be a fourth without the original.

So that was the pie.

That was the point that
started to win me specifically.

Although Nick, whenever you mentioned
the blonde eyebrows, I'm almost positive.

Kevin has come out and said that
his, one of his biggest regrets in,

Nick: well, he can comment
in the comments, you know,

cause he's a super van.

So he

Trey: looked here this,

Jude: yeah, I

Nick: mean going heavy.

When was the last time you went
back and watched the first.

Last year.

Okay.

So recently, like I going back and
re visiting, like, it is funny.

Like I think Kat Dennings is really funny.

Like when I remember seeing Ragnar rock
the first time and being like, oh, this

is a total change in, in, in tone for
Thor, but like going back, like there's

quite a bit of humor in that movie.

And like, I think like all the
characters are played well and, um,

even, uh, Sylvia is good in that movie.

And the redemption arc is
good in that movie, like from

where he was to where he is.

And

Jude: yeah, I think, I think we
actually get, I think, I think you're

right on the Thor having more humor
and, and it was kind of a myth that

Ragnar rock save the war in that sense.

Um, well, very careful because I
do agree with that statement right.

Of what Ragnarok did for Thor,
but in terms of, if you watch

that injury and it's more.

Um, Avengers, Thor to Avengers too,
that kind of take him in a different

direction than what you got in door.

Uh, because I remember watching it,
uh, even the very first time and

felt it was very balanced on oh.

And being able to take itself
seriously, but realizing, okay, this

is a store, you know what I mean?

And so, yeah, so it's, I
think it's actually a really,

Trey: I think I'm one over because
DOR, without Thor, we don't get

the fantastical side of the MCU.

It establishes the cosmic and it gets
redone with guardians of the galaxy.

But without the promise of Thor, I don't
think we have the wildness of Avengers

end game where you can see Spiderman
swinging golf, Valkyries, Pegasus, as

he's wielding are flying off mule Nair.

I think I just got one over the Thor
over cause Spider-Man homecoming.

There's two other ones.

I like homecoming a lot, but
I think Thor deserves it.

Jude: Yeah.

See, I love, I love homecoming.

I love Spider-Man homecoming.

Um, but there's something about it.

If I'm going to look at these side by
side and I think about the trilogy as

a whole and its contribution to the MCU
as a whole, as much as I don't, I, I

personally don't have a problem with the,
you know, iron man Jr thing critique.

I don't.

Um, but it does give
that feeling of, okay.

It's not, not fully his movie.

So

Nick: when I'm upset, I got to say too,
as far as like bad guys, Q2 like low key

is carried through versus like vulture.

Like we've seen him,
but like, you know, like

Jude: Michael Hayden was great.

Yeah.

There was no follow-through yeah.

Trey: Did we just pick

Jude: Thor kind of think we did.

Trey: Wow.

Nick, when you started with
Thor, where you thinking, this

is how it was going to end up,

Nick: I thought for sure it would just
be like, but of course it's Spider-Man

Trey: right.

Oh my God.

Jude: Well, I didn't upset.

Trey: All right, I'm going
to update the bracket here.

Oh my

Jude: God.

Wow.

Wow.

Trey: If we didn't upset people last week,

Nick: half the listeners
just hit stop already.

Trey: All right.

Thor moves on to the next round.

Ready?

Go ahead and move into the next bracket.

Which is going to put iron man versus iron
man three, I'm going to start a timer.

Jude.

You're going to start a startup.

Now

Jude: iron man, three top 10 MCU movie.

Um, this is there's no question
as good as iron man is iron man.

Three has iron man.

Has Tony has the connection to
previous events tries to deal with

real-world problems with his PTSD.

Um, I know people don't like the,
the re the twist, uh, but I love it.

I love taking that iconography and
we'll talk about, you know, in his head.

I thought that was a fantastic
movie that has to go on.

I

Trey: find that what saved Thor
in the first round was that

it was a foundational piece.

Of the MC hero and I'm, I'm kinda
leaning towards Jude, but it is funny.

I, Ironman is the foundational piece.

Nick, where are you leaning on this one?

Nick: You know, this was kind of the,
the one in my head that I was thinking

of like going into this, like how I was
going to reconcile the iron man three

problem, because going back, like later
on, like, you know, the first time I

saw iron man three, I really didn't care
for it, but going back and rewatching

it a couple of times since then it does.

I think it does hold up more
than I thought it would.

Um, it's interesting.

Judy said something interesting
like iron man three has Tony.

It has iron man.

I would say it doesn't.

I think it has Tony with a sprinkling
of iron man in it, you know, like

iron man armors are for sure.

And then, but like he's not in them as
often as like you would see in like the

other movies that in like the iron man
one definitely does lay the foundation.

The thing that I didn't like about iron
man three, the thing that the question

I have to ask is did they take enough
from it into what comes after it?

I mean, like.

Pepper has the extremest virus.

Right.

And then you'd never hear of that
again, as far as I know, and then

Trey: like, well, they, it's a very,
very quick throwaway line, but at the

end of that montage, they remedy it.

So she no longer has extremists
by the end of the movie.

That's, it's also in this same quick
montage where you find out that they

took the shrapnel out too for towing.

So it's like, it's very rapid
succession at the end there.

Okay.

Nick: And like, I liked the, the,
the Slattery character and Shanghai,

I thought he was charming, you know?

And

Jude: Richard's Slaton, Trevor
Slattery, Trevor, Trevor,

Nick: and, you know, Trey,
like, it's the same thing.

Like, are we, are we going to go with
the foundational laying of Ironman one?

Are we going to go with what
pushed the characters forward and

iron man three and iron man three
really does push the characters

Jude: forward.

They do, but it also.

It ended in such a way that
it completed the trilogy.

Like, like if you never saw iron mannequin
in the MCU, you get a finished story.

It's really true because it
has that what I am Ironman.

Like he, they bring back
the line to end that.

And then when you look at the, in
credits, not like an Intacct in credits,

but the credits where they're showing
it, you know, they're showing clips

and pictures from all three movies.

So it was clearly a definitive end.

You know, I think his contract ran
out with that one and then, you know,

and then because that was after the
Avengers and then we had to recite

them to get them into these others.

So in that sense, in terms of like
for the trilogy, it was, it was

a really good ending to that arc.

Trey: It's one of the few MCU
movies that is as conclusive as

that, like you said, it better.

If we never saw her, man, again,
it was wrapped up perfectly

Nick: and you wouldn't have the
Ironman, you have an Avengers end

game and, uh, infinity war without his
character development in that movie,

Jude: right?

Yeah.

Trey: Yeah.

I'm definitely the leaning iron man
three, if only, and I don't know

if this is medic gaming, the only
other movie I can think that is as

conclusive is Spider-Man no way home
because, and that has to deal with the.

Sony Disney having to play nice.

So they wrote it in a way that if that
deal falls through again, it makes

sense that Peter Parker's not there.

I I'm very curious to see what
would happen if these two meet

up again in the later rounds,

Nick: 3, 3,

Trey: 3.

All right.

We had about 19 seconds left,
but we've got our winner.

So I'm gonna go ahead and stop
the timer and iron man three

moves onto the next round.

Nice.

What's so funny.

Whenever we did our draft, the movie
draft with TK, I was faced with iron

man and iron man three, since I had the
number one pick and I felt like I betrayed

Ironman three because I went for the
audience reaction and chose iron man.

I feel like this is a little bit of
a redemption for my love of iron.

So first two rounds.

We have potentially upset the
audience, but we're moving on.

The next round is going to feature.

Oh man.

Spider-Man no way home versus
captain America, civil war.

Jude: I just, I feel like

Trey: starting a timer.

I almost forgot to set it for myself.

Well,

Jude: no, like I, I wasn't
even taking a timer.

I was just making a comment of like, Hey,
this is, feels like the first real test.

Trey: I will say this for every
redemptive arc I just had with my love

of iron man three, I feel like I'm
about to betray captain America again.

Oh, I love civil war.

It is not the strongest
captain America film.

Spider-Man no way home does.

I think what civil war did, but
across studio, Because you had Andrew

Garfield, you had Toby Maguire.

It brought in those heroes.

It brought in the villains
to varying degrees.

Not every villain got the same level
of attention, but what Spider-Man no

way home does as good as civil war is.

I think Spider-Man no
way home does it better.

And I think I could see it moving forward.

Captain America here

Jude: trying to put together

Trey: an, our list of new co-hosts for

Jude: civil war in terms
of versus these two.

And I just can't, um,

Nick: if we're talking about the,
you know, the best third movie,

as, you know, coming off of iron
man three and Spiderman, civil

war is the worst, third movie.

All it does is set up the conflict.

Right.

You know what I mean?

It doesn't button up.

Anything, all it does
is make more conflict.

Jude: Right.

And that's, and that's what makes
it so difficult is because that was.

Right because you get Joe and Anthony
Russo knowing they're going into the

Avengers, infinity war and end game.

And so they know that they
can wrap that up later.

Right.

Uh, which, which, so that's why
it's so hard to judge on that.

Cause you, you know, they know like
even when it came out, it wasn't

like, is this going to be successful?

So we do this or not.

Um, but you're right.

As a third entry to a trilogy
Spider-Man Spider-Man, Spider-Man,

Spider-Man no way home is better.

Spider-Man

Trey: running away with this.

I will, I want to push back
because Sandy, you just mentioned.

Um, civil war doesn't finish anything.

I can agree to an extent because
obviously civil war gets called

a vendor's two and a half.

Like, I don't think you get that title
without there being some element of truth.

I would argue though, Steve Rogers
arc from first Avenger through in game

is taking his faith in institutions
to faith in people, civil war ends

with him saying like, it's not the
military, it's not the Avengers.

It's the people in my life that I
tr like, I care about that I trust.

So there is that closure, but it's not
center stage, like the civil war aspect

of all these different heroes, I think
over out shines it to say the least.

Nick: I mean, he does lay his shield down,
you know, like, just like, and that's kind

of the end of that character, I guess.

I see your point there.

Trey: It's interesting though.

Cause we just talked about iron
man three being a definitive end.

If that was the last we saw Steve
Rogers, what a heartbreak of an ending

dropping the shield and going away

Jude: well, and again, that's,
it's not, you know, and

that's, that's the, uh, oh man.

That's what makes it tough.

Trey: Well, so we've been
talking about civil war.

What are some points we could say for
no way home, Sandy, do you have any

arguments for the case of no way home

Nick: for the, for, for going on or not

Trey: going on going on?

Jude: I mean, okay.

Nick: I mean, you know, just this,
it managed to, to, to, to reach the

spectacle level that I feel like,
uh, infinity or reached in, in a

Spider-Man movie, you know what I mean?

Like, it definitely matched the
spectacle of civil war as far as like

the amount of characters bringing
in and like the amount of fan

service it did without overdoing it.

And the amount of like cheering
moments that we had in the theater

matched, you know, infinity war.

And even in game two, I feel like
just to some respect and, and they,

how they were able to meet our
expectations, which almost never happens.

I feel like in, in MCU movies, you know,
uh, a Festo, you know, but here we are,

you know, with Andrew Garfield and, uh,
Toby McGuire and they did it so well.

Well,

Jude: you know what, and that's a
really good point because you're

bringing in multiple characters, civil
war brought in multiple characters.

I don't remember in civil war.

And I say this, like, I feel like
I'm talking bad about civil war

and, you know, and, and, and I'm
trying not to, but I don't remember

watching it and having those fan
moments where everybody's like, yeah.

And cheer, you know, actually, I
only remember seeing, go ahead,

Trey: finish your

thought

Jude: and that'll be, um, and
both of them had to do a Spiderman

it said Queens

Spiderman.

But beyond that, you didn't
have that kind of moment.

Um, th the way.

Trey: Dude.

I think coming in with that final nail
in the coffin is, are we unanimous?

No way home, no way home,

Nick: not how I thought it was good to go.

Trey: Not in

Nick: this round.

I was like, this is
going to be like the end.

We're going to have to put civil
war against like no way home at

the end, but like, not this far up.

Jude: I know, I know the whole

Trey: Genesis of this idea of doing
a bracket was right after no way

home came out, Jude and I wanted
to do something with the trilogies.

And we were just like, is
there really an episode?

Because all it's going to do is come
down to captain America and Spiderman.

And so we were like, what if we pitted
all the movies against each other?

Oh my gosh.

Well,

Nick: Oh, wait, this is a random question.

Okay, go ahead.

Do the, does that even refer to Steve
Rogers as captain America after civil war?

Or do they just

Trey: call him?

Steve?

I think the recognition as
Steve Rogers was exponentially

skyrocketed after civil war.

It's kind of like, how would we talk about
with black widow people now refer to as

Natasha, not black widow kind of thing

Jude: in infinity war, they say vision.

I think vision said
captain, captain Rogers.

Yeah.

Or something

Nick: and the cause of the call and
captain Rogers, like captain America.

I wonder if they ever refer to
it as captain America again.

Trey: Oh, I thought you were talking
about like the general audience

you're talking about in narrative.

Nick: Yeah.

Like did they kill it?

Did they kill that character?

You know,

Trey: that's very interesting.

Do

Jude: those just attainment?

Prob probably so in game
I'd have to rewatch it.

Darn.

Um, but I I'm, I'm guessing, I'm thinking
that might've happened in end game.

Trey: Does it wasp say, all right, cap.

Well, I guess I could go
cap Rogers or cap America.

Yeah.

Nick, this is a good question.

This is going to keep me, keep me
occupied throughout the episode.

Nick: Also.

I'm also glad to know that, like I'm
not the only one that just like puts end

game on, like just for I'm folding the
laundry I put in game on like, oh yeah.

It's a comfort

Trey: movie for me all throughout the
beginning of the pandemic in 2020, I

would just put on that final battle.

It was my comfort.

All right.

Getting back to the bracket.

The final of the first round we
have Spider-Man far from home

and captain America, the first.

Nick, we're starting with you
this time gonna hit that timer

at five minutes starting now.

Nick: Okay.

Going back to our earlier
conversation, this is one, I feel

like we can't ignore captain America.

The first Avenger laying the
groundwork for everything that

comes with the Avengers, everything
that comes with Steve Rogers.

Um, I think far from
home was really great.

I think there's some really great
performances from J gellan hall.

I think there's a really great, um,
like chemistry between those two.

Uh, you know, there's, there's a really
great reveals was India and Mary Jane.

And that one, but we, I don't think we
can ha I just don't think we can ignore

everything that captain America first
Avengers set up to be paid off later by

Avengers movies by the captain America
movies, uh, with inclusions of agent.

Uh, Hugo evening's amazing red skull.

I just, I got to give
it to the cap on this

Trey: one.

I'm finding it hard to disagree with you.

Uh, and even outside of the
candidate America fan boy,

I love far from home before.

No way home.

I had it as my favorite, as the discussion
has circled back around to Spiderman.

I see the.

In far from home, despite still loving
it because I love what it tackles with.

Mysterio.

You pointed out the chemistry
between Jill and Holland

Holland, but counts in America.

If there's any one we're going to
give a foundational piece to you.

You called it Hugo weaving, captain
America, setting up the glorified pass,

setting up the present day, setting up.

Well, I wouldn't say set up, but
Nick fury starting to take a more

prominent role outside of just in tags.

I think you make a strong case
for first of injure for me.

Yeah.

Jude: I'm going to go
Spider-Man far from home.

And the only reason why is, I feel
like it's, I don't know if this is

breaking the rules, but I'm going
to use this and there, but like

Catherine America, first Avenger.

And I think about Thor that did move.

There's a style and Thor that I've,
that I feel like keeps going through

the MCU and in captain America first
Avenger, that style wasn't there yet.

It was completely different.

Um, and they got away from that.

And, and so in that sense, it feels
like they didn't really find itself.

And I do wonder if winter
soldier wasn't as good as it was.

If cap would have actually had the
place he had moving forward, you know?

Cause, cause he didn't really
take off because of this movie.

Right.

It was what we see, I'd say an
Avengers and civil war that the

civil war, a winter soldier.

And so because of that, I feel like you,
now you get iron man and captain center

and age of Ultron and you're able to,
to, to continue that thread through.

Um, but I don't think this movie.

Oh on its own, set that up.

I think it becomes better.

Uh, going back to it, do you think it

Nick: suffers as a period piece?

Jude: Does it suffer as a period piece?

That's a good question.

Uh,

Trey: or because it's a
period piece, I guess.

Jude: Well, I, in some ways
I'm going to say yes, right?

Uh, I think, I think because of that
being a period piece, I know that

there's elements of it that I know, I
didn't appreciate the first time around

because it just felt like it was quick.

Let's introduce this character.

We got to get to Avengers, you
know, and it was part of that phase

of the MCU was more about just
getting the character out there.

And I think they did a good job making
it a period piece, you know, and

especially doing the, the montage of
the punching Hitler over and over again.

But I know in watching it the first time
around and I'm like, what are we doing?

Um, you know, and it wasn't until later.

And I was like, oh, okay.

Actually, this is very, very
clever and very well done.

And I don't know if, if that had its
full appreciation and its first run.

And so that's, again, part of that,
you know, working out the kinks

and who knows maybe that helps it
cause it had to work out the kinks.

But for me, uh, Spider-Man far
from home is a really good entry

comparatively where captain America
just rush of injuries, he gets better

because of previous later injuries.

Trey: All right.

I got an argument 20 seconds to go.

You talk about how captain America
doesn't take off because of this movie.

And I agree, I think you're right.

I think it is one of those ones
that retroactively becomes better.

If you surveyed people
about what are, what's.

One of the biggest moments in the MCU
I'll make this and we'll we'll move on.

We'll decide.

One of the biggest moments
in the MCU is Rogers lifting.

I don't think that happens.

That a same effect without first Avenger
starting with, with where Rogers is there.

So we're out of time.

I've got my argument in
there in the last second.

We got to cast our vote.

I feel bad.

I want to give people
time to respond, but also

Jude: no, no, we can vote.

I like, I know where I stand on.

I don't find that
argument compelling that.

Okay.

Trey: Uh, Nick, you started this off.

Where's your vote,
captain America, captain

Jude: America.

I'm sticking with Spiderman.

All

Trey: right.

Our first wow.

Vote captain America, the first
vendors moving on now, before

Jude: we go in, the reason why
I didn't find it compelling is I

would stick to my argument of what
made that was the scene in Asia.

Well, there was a slight movement

Trey: I want to keep going, but
I know we got to keep moving

Jude: my reasoning, my thoughts.

So, yeah.

Trey: Well, I, I was also going to bring
in an argument about how, as much as I

love far from home, the Mysterio like,
oh, framing, Peter Parker gets resolved

in like five minutes and no way home.

And then it doesn't become
really a plot point.

It's like, oh, it's fucking going go.

We're not actually mad at you.

Happy though.

He had a really good lawyer, man.

Jude: That was far from home.

That was still at home.

Nick: Right.

The resolution.

Sorry.

Oh, that's what, that's what
you were talking about, right?

Like the setup of the

Trey: like far from homes arc isn't
carried over that much and no way home.

Also

Nick: Judy said something about
like how it was just kind of like,

uh, uh, like when they had to get
it out to take it to Avengers, but.

The captain America first Avenger
is the best told origin story.

They'd take the most time.

I feel like he's a scrawny, Steve
Rogers for a lot of that movie.

And like, they, I feel like they
take the time to really tell that

story and set up that character in
that more than any other origin film.

I, I think, and I think
that's how I think I feel,

Jude: uh, I think I have
to think about that.

Um, my, my initial reaction to that,
as I said, okay, it would be, let's put

iron man, the verse one side by side.

Um, and only because you, you see him in
the cave build the first suit, build the

next and tinker and work its way up and,
you know, um, but yeah, I think that's,

I think that's pretty strong though,

Trey: right?

We're moving into the next round of
face offs before we do, I do want

to take a moment to say goodbye
to Spider-Man homecoming, iron

man, captain America, civil war.

And Spider-Man far from home Jude.

We're starting with you this time.

And we have in our next round and
the revelation of our first bi-week

contender, which I think is deserving.

Captain America, the
winter soldier versus Thor.

We've got five minutes starting now.

Jude: Uh, yes, this is super deserving.

Um, there's not much to say.

I mean, it's winter soldier.

I mean, like from this, it gives
us a winter soldier, right?

Um, Bucky warrants, they
gives us the Russo brothers.

It was of the MCU, the
most of the MCU entries.

I think it was the most.

And that the, you know, the
Edward Snowden thing happening.

And then again, I wasn't
even really intentional.

It just kind of worked out that way.

And so they were able to take that
character of captain America and really

put him into more contemporary issues
and have that character make sense.

When you think about when and why that
character, uh, was created and developed.

So hit it, put it, put it that
one, I think was what really put

the MC on the map and really give
it credit a lot of credibility.

Trey: It's hard to argue with that logic.

I mean, this, this feels like a, a beat-up
unfilled as much as we praise the war

for all the things that it started being
a foundational piece, giving us the

promise of the cosmic side of the MCU.

Captain America.

The winter soldier is.

Um, you know, we talk about the
foundational pieces mixing metaphors, if

there was a Mount Rushmore of the MCU, I
mean, winter soldier has to be up there.

I think it is perpetually in the
top five of everyone's lists.

And so it's hard to pick against it here.

Yeah.

Nick: It's, it's really tough.

I was, I was trying to think of
like, what were things that were

like missed in, in either movie?

Like what were things I didn't like
about, um, you know, winter soldier,

you know, and it's, it's tough.

Like they, they do so much like good work.

And I think I love the chemistry between,
um, black widow and Steve Rogers.

I think they did such a good job.

And without this movie and without
you seeing what they go through,

like, it doesn't make sense in
civil war when she kind of like

comes back, like and helps them out
and, um, their relationship there.

And then they really should
moving forward into, you know,

the, the last Avengers movies.

Like there's, there's a lot done to bridge
a gap in that movie where it doesn't feel

like the sophomore slump, it doesn't feel
like just story beats to get to the end.

There's so much development
in the character, just there.

It's a, it's a really well paced movie,
Robert Redford, I mean, incredible job.

Well,

Jude: and the ability to
balance so many characters.

Um, I mean, when you Pierce fury,
uh, cap Natasha, Sam Wilson, Bucky

marks, you know, I mean, we, we look
at some of these other movies about

look how many characters they had.

They had a balance a lot here,
introduce Falcon and Sam Wilson.

And they did a great job of that.

Introduce Sharon Carter.

Yeah.

Sharon Carter, like, like, like when
you, when you, when you look at the

way that they, it was clearly a captain
America movie, Right, but it's, it

was very ensemble and, and they were
able to manage to do that without

having it feel like an ensemble.

Trey: I remember that's one of the
things we talked about, where yeah.

Of the Avengers movie was
the promise of phase one.

After that you get Ironman three
pretty self-contained Thor, the

dark world, it's its own thing.

Captain America, the winter soldier
showed us the universe coalescing

by bringing in Natasha, bringing in
fury, setting up Falcon and paying

off storylines with Steve Rogers.

It's going to be hard to
see what beats winter.

Oh, yeah.

What a soldier winter soldier.

We'll go ahead and move on.

We had about 40 seconds left, but
we'll go ahead and call it there.

Jude: I'm sorry.

I'm surprised that that
one took that much time.

Trey: So our next round or our
next face-off, I should say,

starting with me this time.

It is between Ironman three
and the surprise of the

bi-week Thor, the dark world.

We've got five minutes starting.

Now.

I know I've got a bias going into
this because I do consider Ironman

three, one of like top five MCU films.

But it is interesting that we're
seeing these two face off against

each other, because I think
it is regarded as the lowest.

Of see you, right.

I'm going to, I, I know my vote.

I'm going to try and go to bat for
Thor, the dark world here a little bit.

It, I don't think it's as bad as
people have made it out to be.

I don't think it's a good door movie.

I think it's a good
low-key movie, Garrett.

Like there's not enough low-key in
it, but what they do and what they, I

don't even want to say rehabilitate,
but what they are able to accomplish

and making him more sympathetic
after what happened in the Avengers,

I think is definitely worth noting.

And without this movie, I don't think
you get some of the emotional pieces

and end game where Thor I worthy and he
was shocked by it after his depression

or the conversation with his mother
about, you know, stop trying to be who

you're supposed to be and be who you are.

All that starts here
in Thor, the dark one.

And it pays the way for low-key
as well, the series, so that,

Jude: well, it's, it's interesting.

I just want to say this.

It is interesting how the MCA is
able to take these movies that

I'm taking the Garmin too as well.

Would that, that as, not really
well-regarded but like, no, that's

the one I'm going to grab and
really dig into and pull forward.

So, yeah.

I don't know.

Nick, did you find them convincing?

No.

Trey: Is it me or your
reception of the dark world?

Nick: I am like, I don't
even hate the dark world.

I don't think it's not even my
least favorite movie, but iron

man three is clearly the winner.

Trey: Yeah, we can, we can call it.

Like I said he was a stretch
to try and argue for it.

I'm still iron man.

Three.

Nick: I think we could argue that,
that Thor, the dark world isn't

as bad as, or we says it was.

I think we could argue that
it's not a terrible movie.

I think we can argue that, but
like, if you're putting it in a

bracket against iron man, We're
moving iron man three along.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I remember all

Trey: right, we're moving on.

We had two minutes and 30 seconds left,
but we've got a clear winner here.

I know this is getting a little bit too
much football for the podcast, but this

was like, this feels like when I play
a team like sneaks in to the bi-week

and then immediately gets knocked out.

Jude: Yep.

Yeah.

All right.

It's the, it's the, uh, it's it's, as
I think in college football, it's a

small schools of the world that have
such a great season and make it into

the, you know, to a big bowl game.

And you're like, you really don't

Trey: belong here as a Steelers fan.

This has been the last eight years
or so of this dealer's performance.

Jude: Oh man.

Trey: All right, moving
on to the next match.

We've got Spiderman.

No way home versus iron man to Nick
Sandy, we're starting with you.

And we've got five minutes
on the clock starting now.

Nick: So Ironman to introduce.

Natasha Romanov in a very S silly manner.

Let's say it, it, uh, uh,
I'm trying, I'm trying.

Hold on.

Where's

Trey: John Fabro.

Nick: It, uh, it brings in,
uh, the new roadie yeah.

Jude: Brings in the new room.

Nick: I can't,

Trey: I can't, I think we got get, let's
see a poster now for Ironman too, with

the tagline, it brings in the new road

Nick: and your tray.

I don't know if I'll catch you for this,
but you know, Trey, that road is one of my

least favorite characters and MCU as well.

So I just, I can't, I just
don't, I it's, it's no way home.

Jude: Yeah.

Um, my, to me, iron man, two biggest
strong point is also its biggest weakness.

Uh, which is we get Sam Rockwell,
but we haven't seen him again.

So yeah, I don't whatever.

Nick: Oh, these core teams
that thought they had a chance,

Jude: my weeks

Trey: I'm trying to think.

And there's not.

Cause I remember there was a point when
we were doing our iron man to review

where we were like up until this point.

It's not that bad of a movie
and they've got something going

on and then it falls apart.

And even in trying to recall, yeah.

Monaco's where that movie falls apart.

A pot apart.

The worst word about this since this
is on a timer, a lot of my, a lot of

the mess ups are just going to stay.

Nick: I was thinking about

Trey: that.

Oh man.

Yeah.

I'm not even going to try.

Spider-Man no way home.

We had three minutes left on the time.

Jude: Wow.

Nick: I think that will be the
last of like the, the true upset

or that the true like quick, quick,
like, no, uh, no arguing there.

Moving forward,

Trey: looking at the next one.

This one might, I can see
this going either way.

This could be a quick one
or this could be a fun one.

So next we have captain America,
the first Avenger versus Thor,

Ragnarok, Jude, you're up first
with five minutes starting now.

Jude: You know what?

Yeah.

Ragged rocks the best, uh, of these two.

Trey: So I got, I got to say
despite the fact that Nick and

I were the ones to vote for it.

I love that it's coming back to
you having the opening statement,

Jude: like, like, I, I can't, I, between
these two, I can't be like, Hey, captain

America first or injured, you know, um,
You know what Ragnarok gives us Korg.

It gives us hell a

Nick: party.

Thor.

It wouldn't have to give
us party through her.

I did the tone of Ragnar rock.

I don't think would've, if it had
been any other tone, it wouldn't

have gotten party for I'm just

Jude: saying that's that's fair.

Trey: I can see that 100%.

Jude: That's fair.

Captain America.

The first Avenger,

Trey: Nick, your checks in the mail.

No,

Jude: I will say, I will say this,
like, like, like it is kind of.

Because we know through our
love and Thunder's coming out.

If we didn't know Thor, 11 thunder
was coming out, it's not a good,

this is kind of like civil war.

It's not a good trilogy finale
because it is going right

into infinity war, you know?

So that has it.

You don't feel it's wrapped
up, if that makes sense.

And it takes infinity war, seeing
new Asgard and seeing them move

on and, and those types of things.

And so you don't really feel
like that story's done tonally.

It feels more MCU than captain
America, first Avenger.

So.

So, so that's, that's the thing
about that, where it makes it really

makes it difficult when you start
thinking in terms of trilogy, but

Thor, Ragnarok was just so well done
and just a fun movie in a fun entry.

Yeah.

I still gonna stick with Thor and I
don't have a very strong argument.

I, I realize that I'm sticking with

Trey: Nick.

You and I were both on
the first Avenger train.

Is there anything that you
would pick it over Ragnar?

Nick: The only thing is, you know,
taking a movie like first Avenger,

like we were talking about like the
origin story, the first in his versus

like pitting it against Thor's fifth
appearance in a mainline movie.

Like it's so hard.

Like you spend so much
time with that character.

And so like, of course, like you love that
movie because you love the character after

spending so many years with him versus
like, you know, like talking about G the

first time you saw captain America and
you're like, you know, it's gotten better,

but you know, you've had all the time
now to, to, to, to be with, or to go into

Ragnar rock and be like, this is great.

I love this character I've seen and
do all these things and going forward.

But I don't think that though,
that comparison can still make

Thor not be a better movie.

And not move on.

Like it was so funny.

It was so fun.

Like the style of it was great.

Like the introduction of chord was great.

Uh, Valkyrie was so good
and Grandmaster, yeah.

Having a whole, not be smart home, but
like, you know, have him talking more

in, in his, in his whole form and all
that, that set up for Bruce banner to

moving forward, you know, there's but
you also, you know, you're right too,

that it does do so much more setting up
for infinity war and end game to that.

It's tough.

It's not a good button up as far
as the trilogy goes, but as far

as the movie goes, and if you stop
it like right at the end, right.

When they're on the ship and just
like roll credits, it's great.

Then, then it could be a button
up and they're often space.

To have multiple adventures
and that it's done.

And then we can just kind of not remember,
like if you just stop it, like right

before that shadow comes over, it's fine.

It's

Jude: fine.

Trey: Yeah.

Yeah.

I think as much as I would love for
the first vendor to move on, we don't

have Chris Hemsworth still without
Ragnar rock for all the whispers.

He was ready to call it quits
Taika Waititi, like breathed new

life into the Thor franchise.

It's, it's almost like an
inverse of the captain America.

Like what captain America did
to set up from the beginning.

Thor was able to restart
at the end of its trilogy.

So I think I would go
at Ragnar rock for sure.

Jude: Yeah.

And now that was a good way to
put it to the restart at the end.

Trey: All right.

Well, we had seven seconds left,
so are we all in agreement?

Jude: Yeah, I think
we're all in agreement.

I do find it interesting that
at this point, Of the trilogies.

We still have representation from all.

Oh wow.

You're right.

Cause yeah.

Cause at first Avenger came across in Thor
would have been completely out, but, and

Nick: it's the third one
except for we're soldier.

Jude: Ooh.

Trey: All right.

Well moving us into
almost the semi-finals.

We're going to go ahead and say
goodbye to Thor, Thor, the dark

world, iron man, and captain America.

The first Avenger.

Is it me this time?

I forgot who, who, okay, so starting
with me, we have captain America,

the winter soldier versus iron man.

Three, five minutes on
the clock starting now.

Oh, no, for all, for all the healing
I thought I did from having to pick

iron, ran over iron man three on TKs
now enforced between these tiers.

I love iron man three with all my heart.

I love what it does for Tony.

I think it propels Tony through the final
act of the infinity saga, but I think the

MCU owes a lot to what the Russo brothers
did starting with winter soldier, moving

into civil war, infinity war in game.

I can't think of, I can't think of a
reason not to give it to the winter.

It's.

Yeah.

I mean, even going by my own
personal rankings, winter soldier

is always up there in the one or
two spot and Ironman threes three.

So yeah, I think I'd, I think I would
go winter soldier here in this one.

Nick: I love Shane black.

I think he tells like such a great story.

I think he's got a really way
of like visually telling stories

that are really, really well.

And, um, like the way he chooses shots
and the way he, I think about like that

shot of Tony in the snow, like after he's
like crashed and everything like that.

And even him like pulling his arm
or like the way that he's able to

visually tell a story, as well as,
um, like through the characters I

think is, is really, really great.

And I think he.

A really different feel, a really intimate
feel to a very large stage, which I

think is really difficult to do, uh,
especially this, you know, this late

into the game being the third movie.

Um, and he was able to kind of really
bring us in, uh, to tell a really

interesting Tony stark story under the
guise of, you know, an iron man costume.

And I think that has to be acknowledged,
you know, as far as, um, maybe it

wasn't pushing the story forward, but
it was such a good character study

of the, of Tony stark, the character.

And I think Shane black did a
really great job doing that.

Um, and him like seeing himself in the,
the, the young, the kid that he, you know,

he meets and him being able to impart that
wisdom and him fighting, uh, about his

love has real, you know, love with pepper
and, and, and throughout that thing.

And then, you know, the big
fight at the end with all

the, the armors and, but even.

How much, I really appreciate what Shane
black is able to do until that story.

I still think we're just soldier as an
MC movie has to move on as the better

Jude: movie, I'm going to take everything.

Nick said that was good about iron
man three and stop right before you go

into captain America, winter soldier,
and say, because we're thinking as a

trilogy face-off and iron man three
is the final of a trilogy, you know?

And, and, and you think about trilogies.

This is what we're
building up to in this end.

And how well they completed
it and wrapped it up.

I think that's why it has to, it's better.

It has to go on because in here
you had, the second entry of

this trilogy is, is the best one.

And then it's got this far, you
know, I, I don't remember people

wildly excited about captain
America, winter soldier coming out.

Because, okay.

You just, you had these, but there
wasn't that same excitement as you

had for, um, and iron man movie,
you know, or even for civil war.

Um, but even for that, and it wasn't
just captain America, that was about

getting to see the civil war and the
heroes fight and each other in that sense.

So I, 100% agree with you
on how much captain America,

winter soldier is a solid movie.

Um, but thinking in terms of this also in
the context of a trilogy, um, what iron

man three does for that trilogy, that
winter soldier I would say does for the

MCU and not necessarily for the trilogy
is why iron man three has to go, oh, crap.

Um,

Nick: I almost had to use my, like my
swear card for the guest to say bad

word, because that's how I feel right

Trey: now.

That was a good argument
because you're right.

If we're in for analyzing these
on a trilogy basis, I think

Ironman three gets the edge.

Yes,

Jude: the timer.

Nick: That was the most perfect.

Jude: Perfect.

Nick: Oh my

Jude: gosh.

We got to

Trey: vote.

I'll start

Jude: with Jude.

I would say my vote is Ironman three.

Oh.

Trey: And this is

Jude: what I love about this is that
people with people don't see that I

get to see is, is Nick Sandy's hands.

Cut it up his face in
his face, in his hands.

I'm just like, oh, I was

Nick: literally about to say, this was
one of those one times, like the medium.

If they could see the looks on our

Trey: faces right there, I have a feeling.

They can hear it, feel it, they
could feel it through the speakers.

I okay.

But we got to cast her vote.

I propose do we want to have
Jude count down to three?

And we both say it aloud
to see where we sure.

Jude: Ready?

Okay.

Here we go.

Countdown to like three to one,

Trey: uh, 3, 2, 1, we say it.

All right.

3, 2, 1.

We say it.

All right.

You ready?

Nick?

Alright.

Jude: Three, two.

Trey: we're going to
get so much hate online.

Jude: When I think about the multi-verse
of madness episode that we did and

following it with this one, this is,

Trey: that argument was so compelling.

Nick: Oh my gosh.

Trey: Yup.

Regardless how this shakes off, dude,
I think that might be the case or

the best argument of the episodes.

Agreed.

Hey,

Nick: I just was adding
fuel to the fire too.

Like, I wasn't even,

Trey: this is going to
be one of those ones.

That's extra fun to listen back to you.

Cause it's a different experience being
here, but once you're just passively

listening to it, I can't wait to
see the seeds that get dropped well.

Jude: Yeah.

Cause there's also, you can think back
and be like, oh, why didn't I say this?

Or why didn't I say that?

I

Nick: remember like, I think my
first episode you guys asked me,

like in my team capper team, iron
man, and I was like, yeah, team cap.

And then here we are 10 episodes later

Trey: or whatever it is, this
is finally your payback for all

the team catch-ups I've been

making

Jude: what?

The jest, just

Trey: captain America has been
completely wiped off the books.

Oh my gosh.

Wow.

All right.

Let's see if we can find
a contender for iron man.

Three, moving into the next round.

We're coming back to you, Nick.

We've got Spiderman.

No way home versus Thor, Ragnarok five
minutes on the clock starting now.

Nick: Okay.

I'm trying to take off my rose
tinted glasses of just seeing,

you know, no way home was one of
the most recent movies I just saw.

I saw it with my son and he loved it
because he loves Spiderman and just

trying to like, remove that and just
think of them as far as movies go.

Oh, it's so hard coming off that argument
for iron man, because a lot of those

same arguments can be put here, uh,
on that, on that movie to remind me

is the same director through all the

Trey: Spider-Man movies.

Yes.

Sean Watts that's worth something.

That's worth something.

No other trilogy has had
the same director, right.

Nick: And for him to come through
and tell that whole story.

And to have it be so impactful on the
MCU at large on the multi-verse at large.

And then still being able to button it up
in a way that if there was never another

MCU Spider-Man movie, it would be okay.

And button it up in the way that
they could bring him back in at

any time and have it be okay.

Even if it wasn't Tom Holland,
because they wouldn't know who he is.

Yeah.

But Ragnar rock is, it was really fun.

And, but it's, you know, going back
to that, Herman had three argument

as far as the trilogy rules go.

Uh, no way home, I think would
be my vote moving forward.

Jude: Yeah.

I had my, my big thing, same argument,
but my big thing is what I come

back to think about Ragnar rock.

It is, it's so much fun, but
I feel like for me, that's the

only thing it has going for it.

Not the only, that's pretty strong.

The kind of guy gets going that way since
they're trying to make a case between

two movies, but that's, that's say
the biggest thing it has going for it.

Let's put it that way easily.

It's strength.

Yeah.

And so for that reason, it's just
like, you know, well, and to add

to that, it let's put it this way.

Um, it feels like, like, I
think you mentioned like a, a

rebirth or a restart of Thor.

And so it feels like a first movie, the
first entry, you know, especially, you

know, it'd be interesting if they do
something after throw 11 thunder and

we get like, uh, uh, Taika trilogy, um,
and, and not trying to make that part of

the argument, I just popped in my head.

I'm like, oh, that'd
be interesting to see.

But yeah, it feels like a standalone to

Trey: me.

Yeah.

I can see that logic if we're going
by evaluating these as a true.

We, I mean, we set it in the
very first round Spiderman.

No way.

Home is one of the few NC MCU
movies to have as conclusive

of an ending as this does

Nick: while still affecting the entire
multi-verse the entire mainline universe.

It, it affects all of that.

Trey: Yeah.

And I mean, even speaking of
the, multi-verse like just

getting some multi-verse
representation in these discussions.

We've had three depictions of it, so.

Coin flip Loki and no way home, I
think are the best to pictures of the

multi-verse so far that we've gotten.

No, I know that Loki's not in
this particular, but it is.

I think it's a merit of no
way home to attribute to it.

And I think what's pushing me over the
line and I'm glad you brought this up.

It's the John Watts
completing the trilogy factor.

I think that is something that definitely
needs to be heavily into consideration

here because it is not often that
there is consecutive directorial

managing for an awkward way to put it.

So yeah, my vote right now is no way home.

Are we in agreement?

I think so.

50 seconds left.

So I think that's a good time to.

Jude: Yep.

I think, I think we, I think we got it.

Trey: All right.

We're moving into the final, but before
we do, I do want to say goodbye to

captain America, the winter soldier
and Thor, Ragnarok, which brings us to.

Iron man three.

I

Jude: love it.

I'm such a big smile on
my face right now versus

Trey: my her man.

No way.

Nick: I'm sorry.

I'm not

Trey: starting this one.

All right, Mr.

Smiles, you got five minutes.

Here we go.

Starting now

Jude: I'm actually going
to go with Ironman three

Trey: and that is a sound

Jude: bite.

So

here's why if again, for going,
Trilogy's the complete story we get here.

Um, and I, and I admit, I there's a little
bit of bias on me on this one, but you

did get again, go back to that complete
story, but with Spider-Man no way home.

I remember I personally didn't like
the everyone forgets memory, you

know, I don't feel like in terms of
like character growth that actually,

I felt like you had that ending.

So you can Sony and Marvel studios has
some options rather than like, what is the

best thing and growth for this character.

Um, and, and I get people's, you
know, I hear all the time, oh, the

sacrifice, and nobody knows you
and how alone you feel and stuff.

And I, and I, and I get all that.

Um, it just, I just can't get past that.

This gives the studios an out, you
know, feeling and, and I w I would like

to see, you know, um, well, I mean,
you're getting out of high school.

You're about to go to college and
you're maturing, and it's like taking

this responsibility for the actions.

And so it just still had that
feel of, of I'm going to use.

Magic or whatever means
to fix it, you know?

Um, and so, yeah, so in that sense, uh,
I don't think that's the strongest of

arguments, if that makes sense, but like,
that's why I would go with iron man three.

Trey: I I'll step in here.

And Jude, I think it's very fitting
that in this face off Ironman three

has made it in the finals because
whenever I think about our podcast,

our iron man three or view perpetually
is one of my favorite ones because

of how glowing of a review we get.

Like, I think the affection we
have for that movie is what helped

spark this podcast for all the
praises that you give iron man.

And even though I see the flaws and
no way home, what you're talking about

with the studios, making everyone
happy, kind of redoing some of the

same story arcs about sacrifice, but.

No way home to me is in terms of
movies is a miracle that had happened.

There's no way it should have
worked as well as it did 20 year

payoffs having as many characters
and studio melding as it did.

And it's still come away
as moving as it was.

And not just pure fan service,
there's totally a bunch of fan

service, but it, it balances it so
well with telling a meaningful story.

So in my eyes, it does
with iron man three.

While juggling the popcorn, pleasing
aspect of what these movies have

at their objectives as well.

So I'm, I'm feeling no way home.

I think that's fair, Nick.

Nick: Uh, one of the, you know,
they always talk about like,

who's the best Peter Parker.

Who's the best vitamin.

Who's the best Bruce Wayne.

Who's the best Batman, you know,
and the thing about the Spider-Man

Tom Holland thing was like, the
other thing that everyone said was

he has too much at his disposal.

Like he has the money from
all the Tony stark stuff.

So like he can't be the best buyer
demand and no way home remedies.

All that, you know, it, it does put
them alone and it puts them in, in

like comic book, accurate clothing.

It puts them in contact with
accurate place, you know, like he,

for a long time had his, his secret
entity, even from the Avengers.

Like he kind of in a way, you know,
talking about Thor, I was like the re

refresh, like in the third, like this
kind of does that for him as well.

If you're thinking about it in the, you
know, the, the big, huge picture too,

like it sets them up to be a different
Spider-Man than has ever been seen before.

Here, uh, and maybe like the best spider
man, if you take away the thing that

people were saying, you know, was bad
about him and it does do such a nice

job of buttoning any of the trilogy
and even in almost the opposite way

the Ironman does, you know, we've
talked about like how iron man is

such an intimate look at Tony stark.

And it really brings the focus down
on like the smaller level, uh, no

way home, does it opposite as opening
up some multi-verse having all these

different characters in it, maybe making
it like a Peter Parker and Spider-Man

movie across multiple universes.

And so it's, it's, it's almost a
taste thing like which, which did

you like, did you like the, the nice,
the storytelling of, of, uh, of a

single singular character or the
giant multi versatile tearing spiral?

I mean, Oh, man.

Trey: I'm glad that Nick got to
give the closing argument because he

was adamant about not wanting to be

alright.

It's time to vote.

I'll come in first.

My votes.

No way home.

Jude: I'm going to stick
with our band three.

Nick: Thanks.

Jude: oh my

Trey: God.

That's your first Nick Santi.

Trump.

Jude: That's fantastic.

I'd like to thank me for doing the music.

Trey: You can find more of my work.

Not answering this question.

Jude: Oh no.

Nick: Oh no.

Trey: It's okay.

And it's a fill in the role
that you did last time.

Nick has got his fingers pinched
on his forehead, looking down.

Oh

Nick: man.

Oh man.

The better trilogy movie is dang it.

This is where all the time I was
going to go like this, episode's

going to end up being two hours long.

Cause it was just Nick, Sandy,
like looking at doubt, trying

not to answer this question.

Trey: I love it.

It milk it.

We're here at the finale.

Keep the people waiting.

Nick: This is so tough.

Like

Jude: it's in your hands.

I just

Trey: stepped into,

Nick: uh, I really, I'm not
trying to stir the pot this time.

This was like the episode that
I didn't want to stir the pot.

And we're not talking about catching
trucks or everything like that.

We're bringing you down to who closed
out the trilogy in a better way.

Was it Spider-Man or iron man?

Was it?

Oh man, this is a really tough one.

I'm going to go.

Spider-Man

Jude: yeah, I had a feeling that's where
you're going ahead of feeling this re

Nick: it was tough.

I had to think about the emotional
damage that I took from, from watching

spanning man versus the emotional
damage I took from watching iron

Jude: man.

No, and that's fair.

That's that's, you know, I mean, for
me, when you think about movies, there

is this element of, um, directors,
that's their job to manipulate you to

feel something, you know what I mean?

You know, to feel something.

And so that's completely fair.

Trey: And if I would, I know,
cause we're kind of in the

debrief section of this now.

So I guess we can go over a little
time, but thinking about it now that

there's no pressure of a timer, I
had to work up to iron man three.

I hated it on my curse viewing.

So I think that's something, even
though I didn't articulate that,

like I think that is something worth
noting too, between these as well.

No way home.

I was in, I loved it from the beginning.

Yeah.

Jude: Yeah.

See, and I, I enjoyed Ironman
three in the first watch.

Um,

Nick: so I also hated iron man
three on the first watch too.

So

Jude: I thought it was great.

So yeah.

Dang, that's

wild.

Trey: That, that was so much fun.

It was,

Jude: it was, uh,

Trey: were there any, go ahead.

Jude: I said, did you want to
run down the bracket one time

real quick and the results?

Trey: All right.

So in the first round we had.

Man homecoming versus Thor.

Thor moved on.

We had iron man vs.

Iron man, three iron man, three moved on.

We had, Spider-Man no way home versus
captain America, civil war, where

Spider-Man no way home moved on.

And then we had Spider-Man far from home
versus captain America, the first vendor.

Okay.

I'm going to peel back
the curtains a little bit.

I have to click on each individual bracket
because it doesn't show me the full title.

So that is stumbling.

So moving onto the next round, we had
Thor versus counted America, the winter

soldier, where winter soldier moved on
iron man, three versus Thor, the dark

world where Ironman three moved on.

Spider-Man no way home
versus iron man too.

Wasn't that?

Our shortest decision?

Jude: I think so.

I think so.

Trey: Uh, no way home.

Canton Mary, the first
Avenger versus Ragnar rock.

And of course Spiderman, no way home
would face off against Ragnar rock and

move into the finals with the winter
soldier versus Ironman three with iron

man three, moving into the finals only
to be defeated by Spider-Man no way

were there any surprises?

Uh,

Jude: you know what, I, I will say this.

It would be interesting to see how it
would turn out if it was seated different.

Um, because there's movies that I
know, I feel comfortable using that

strong of language that I know would
not have got out of the first year

if it wasn't for the randomization.

But I love that because that's
what that part of what made it

so unique of like already first
round, like there were stakes,

Trey: every lead needs, a Cleveland brown.

What about you, Nick?

Where there any surprises?

On your end throughout this, I guess,

Nick: no, because, because
I know you guys, because I'm

listening for a long time.

Like I knew the iron man three
had like a more prominent

position in our, in our hearts.

Like all of us, like, uh,
upon like second, third and

fourth, you know, watches.

Um, so I'm, I'm not really
surprised that it made it that far.

I guess it, it, the it's surprising that
they were all, they came down to the four.

Third movies, except for captain America.

I thought that was kind of interesting,
you know, um, I guess it just, you

know, it shows that, you know, when
you have that time to really bring

out the character, that usually you
can do it and except for captain

Eric, which that was interesting to
me, that civil war didn't go as far

as I, I guess I thought it would.

I

Trey: think that's a very unique take to,
to pull out from that of, I mean, it's

a Testament to your, the winter soldier
of how strong that second injury was.

Jude: Oh yeah.

Well, and one of the things I also would
like to get, it was random, but with Thor

and Spider-Man, we got the first entries.

And no way home and civil war,
the third entries heads up.

So I'm, I'm do, I am glad
it worked out that way.

Um, I do find it interesting that we had
to too very early on between iron man and

iron man three eliminate one, um, from its
own truly, you know, from its own trilogy.

Um, cause I, I feel like depending
on who it went up against iron man

could have gone to the next round.

Um, and so, and so having,
I think is that the only one

where it went up against itself?

I think so.

Trey: That's my favorite matchup.

I think iron man, iron man three
that really tested our metal.

Yeah.

Let's think about a, what if scenario?

Let's say we went iron man,
iron man beats dark world.

Does iron man beat the winter soldier?

No,

Jude: I don't think I gut reaction.

I'm thinking of.

But that's a gut reaction without
hearing what you all say and really

thinking about which one would I want
to, which one would I want to argue

for and, and what that would be?

Nick: Yeah, I'd probably say when
I told you it's still move on.

It's such a, it's such a great movie.

It's it's a good spy movie.

Good action movie.

Good.

Current comic movie.

Yeah.

Trey: I, I, winter soldier,
I think it would move on.

That's a very interesting
Linwood of I'll chime in.

I, for me, and I'm so glad it was the
first one biggest surprise as homecoming.

I was like, when we were doing this
episode, there was a pardon me.

I was like, okay, this is supposed to be
the answer of not being a quick episode

when we decided to do the trilogies.

And so whenever Thor goes up against
homecoming, I'm like, oh man, are we

just going to breeze through this again?

And that was the first
table turn of the episode.

So homecoming not moving
on was the biggest surprise

of this for me so far, you

Jude: know?

And, and again, I, I made it,
I made the argument for Thor,

but like between the two.

I love homecoming.

I do.

But you know, when I, when I try to
think of it in the context of the

trilogies and, and what it does and
what it does for the MCU, I just

felt myself leaning towards Thor.

Trey: Well, I think that's going to
put us into our tournament bracket.

We do have Spiderman, no way home as
our winner, but as a way to close out

this episode, I thought it would be fun
to try and go on the record and predict

which of these two coming movies and
men of the WASC quantum mania coming

out February 17th, 2023, or guardians of
the galaxy volume three on it May 5th,

20, 23 has a shot to beat no way home.

I'll start with you this time.

Nick would, uh, what's
your gut reaction here?

Nick: My, I don't, I love Paul Rudd.

He's like, I just want to be as best for.

Like, I just, he's so charming.

And so I just, my wife talks about
my man crush on him all the time.

Trey: I feel like I remember
you talking about that on the,

what if zombies epicenter,

Nick: what I worry about with, uh, with,
um, uh, ant man on the Wasserman, the

quantum mania is that it'll do the same
thing that Ragnar rock did that civil

war did is that we'll set up something
moving forward, rather than buttoned up

the story with guardians of the galaxy.

I could see that kind of like
buttoning everything up with that

being such an ensemble movie on its
own, just, you know, with everyone's

contract and everything like that.

But I just don't, I don't think it'll,
I don't think it'll have, there was no

I say, yeah, I think it'll be great.

And I think it would be great.

And then I think it'll be good
to having to see what's going to

happen with that team and, uh, see
what's going to happen with, um,

Gomorrah if she's going to come back.

But I, I just don't think
it'll have the payoff.

The way home did.

So I don't think, I don't think
it will be able to dethrone so

Trey: neither of them.

Oh, wow.

Jude: I, I, I do agree though, that, of
those two, I feel like the guardians three

would be what would make a good challenge.

Um, I loved that man loved
eight man, and the wasp.

I truly enjoyed those.

A great, I think MCU entries, um, outside
of the intact it, man, the wash pretty

much could stand alone like it, in terms
of like moving forward, you know, um, of

course you needed some awards, the house
arrest, I get that, but it was just fun.

There they were, you know, they were
what we needed and what James Gunn was

able to do with the second guardians.

Um, which I think is a better movie
than the first guardians I had.

You know, just as a movie
volume, two is far better and.

Better entries in the MCU or motor
the way I put it is like guardians

of galaxy one was a fun movie.

It was probably more fun than
guardians galaxy too, but Guardian's

galaxy too was a far better story,
you know, and with having James Gunn

treat them to complete that trilogy.

Um, I just trust him to do
a really good job, uh, with,

with wrapping up that story.

So

Trey: I'm going to come in with, starting
with ant man and the wasp quantum mania.

I recognize this is my own bias.

I'm kind of done with the
multi-verse for awhile.

And quantum mania feels like it
might be dabbling in the multi-verse.

So as much as I love Paul Rudd, as much
as I, as much as I love what they're doing

with ant man and the wasp, and potentially
what's going to be happening with Cassie

and all of that gang back together.

So much of the arguments we made
throughout this trilogy bracket

was the completing the story.

James Gunn, I think has such a.

Understanding of what he's doing
with the guardians to the point

it's already been definitive.

This is the end of this makeup
of the guardians of the galaxy.

This is the conclusion of their story.

If anybody's going to go up against no way
home it's gardens the galaxy volume three.

Yeah.

And with this.

Would this be the contender for a
director that got to complete his

ant man, the same director all the
way through yes, it is paid read.

Right.

Okay.

Well that makes it a very interesting of
the three, all the three trilogy director.

Well,

Jude: and I, and I think each time
for a man and Batman man, the wash,

but that's the other thing where
it's like I say that gut feeling.

I think both of those were, I think better
than a lot of people were expecting.

Um, and, and both times.

So if that trend continues,

Nick: wow, it's interesting that those
two are the same director too, and

there's gotta be something to that.

You know,

Trey: I love how that all shakes out.

It's interesting to find the little
narrative threads that came out

through this bracket in terms of
like the real world scenarios.

Oh yeah.

Well, I think that's gonna.

That was a very fun inaugural
episode for the tournament bracket.

Nick, I want to say thank you so much
for joining us because this is easily.

One of my favorite episodes.

Thanks for joining for the discussions,

Nick: the heartbreak and the irony of, uh,
you know, me coming in as a counselor to

help you guys work out your problems and
have to do that type regular at the end.

I just, my heart is

Jude: broken.

Yeah, but I, I love that.

It was, you had to do the tie-breaker.

I think it was great.

Trey: I can't, I

Nick: can't say that you somehow set
me up for this, but I feel like somehow

Jude: I get set up.

There was no intentional setup.

I

specifically

Trey: said I randomized it on the podcast.

So

Nick: thank you guys
so much for having me.

I always love coming on and I
just want to say a special hi to

Trey's mom, just cause, um, I'm
just glad you listened to it.

And I hope that this has
been a fun episode for you to

Trey: sing this, that if you
need to, well, I know why your

Jude: mom

Trey: is because my mom
said you're her face.

Jude: Oh, really?

He's H he's angling for the MC.

You need to know t-shirt that's what.

Trey: I felt like that was
going to come into play at some

point, but I forgot about it.

And so that was a perfect
placement on here.

Well, if you want to keep up with my
mom's favorite guest of MC, you need

to know, make sure you're following
Nick on Twitter at Nick underscore

Sandy, or you can check out their
wonderful photography work at Nick

underscore Sandy 2, 5, 3 on Instagram.

And of course, if you wanna keep up
with this show and give us some feedback

on what you thought of this trilogy
bracket, and you can always reach us at

MC you need to know both on Twitter and
Instagram, it's a great place to help

shape the show as well as get to weigh
in on what you thought of these episodes.

Jude: Yeah.

Another way to weigh in is to go
ahead and give us a call, leave us a

voicemail, maybe get you a voice on the
pod and tell us who you thought should

have when the best trilogy, you know,
and of course, discord community and.

Best thing you can do for us is to
share with a friend, leave a rating and

review, um, to encourage others, to have

Trey: a listen.

Yeah.

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for
the use of our theme song, which is

his rendition of the Avengers theme.

You find more of his work in a SoundCloud,
which is linked in the show notes as well.

Well, that's going to do it.

Thank you so much for listening.

Jude, Nick, thank you
so much for doing this.

Jude: Thank you, Trey.

Yeah.

Thank you for being back

Trey: anytime.

We'll see you all next week.

Nick: Sweet.

Yeah.

May 31st.

Great.

That's great.

Now, Dubai.

Anyways.

Sorry to be real.

Trey: Yeah, no, that's totally fine.

I just love how it comes.

Full circle.

You're on

Jude: our pod.

It's

Trey: okay.

This is derail the POS.

Jude: Chop that down as an

idea.

Trey: Oh, I thought you were quoting
always sunny in Philadelphia.

Jude: No, I'm just saying, jot that
down as an idea of derail the pod

Trey: derail the pod.

Oh shoot.

Now I'm, that's gotta be a game somehow.

Like it's two hosts.

A guest comes in.

There's a certain thing
that has to be done.

How quick does it take
to derail the podcast?

There's something there there's
something there for sure.

Are you writing it in a click up?

No,

Nick: we played that in, in AP
government once, like, you know, try

to create a sustaining government.

And then there were two
anarchists that were like unnamed.

They were trying to keep everybody
from creating a sustainable government.

It was fun.

It was fun.

Not hard, but okay.

No, it was not hard at all.

I was saying, I guess then it was,
it took five minutes and we were

all playing a big booty on the floor

Jude: and it was like, I mean, Yeah.

I mean, first off, I've never
played big booty, but also, I

mean, in terms of government, the
moment you enter free choice into

it, like all hell goats happens.

Trey: There are so many
great things right now.

But if the thing that's coming
to mind is if you could go to the

beginning of this podcast and tell
me at some point, my cousin would

say, no, I've never played big booty.

So casually.

Nick: It's a camp game, you know,
like counting it's, it's fun.

It's really great.

It's really fun.

Jude: All the kids love it.

Big butts and I can't deny

oh, that can be dangerous for that.

Nick: That's a very dangerous thing.

Trey: Oh my God.

That's great.

All right.

Are we, I think I'm good.

I think we're good.

Okay.

Here we go.

Wait, could you hear that?

Jude: That was booty release.

Nick: That was my son for as

well.

Trey: Oh, is everything okay?

Yeah.

I hope that was picked up on the
microphone, because with your

permission, that would be a really funny,

Jude: oh, the leach version of
Trey going, like, is that a cat?

No, that's my kid.

Trey: I forgot what, oh my God.

We're so derailed.

There was another point where one of your
kids interrupted the podcast early, early

on in the, before we even had guests.

And I was like, is that a cat?

So there's a running theme of

Jude: me thinking kids are kids.

Trey: I believe so.

I forgot how I came across
it, but it was so funny.

Oh

Nick: my goodness.

Okay.

Everyone everyone's out of the bathroom.

Should we get to go?

All right, here we

Trey: go.