Trey: Hello and welcome back to another
episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast

dedicated to the Marvel Cinematic
Universe and everything you need to know.

I'm Trey!

Jude: And I'm Jude.

How you doing, Trey?

Trey: Well, Jude, I'm excited because
today we get to welcome back a creator

capable of 3d printing reality into
whatever she wants, whether she's

willing the infinity gauntlet,
lightsaber combo as a flex or streaming

the crafting process on Twitch.

We're delighted to welcome
leech back to the podcast.

Welcome back, leech.

Welcome.

Thanks for having me.

How's

Leech: it going?

It's going well.

I'm just like floored every time your
intro is so thoroughly like researched.

It's ridiculous.

Oh my

Trey: gosh.

Well, thank you.

It has been entirely too long since
you have been on this podcast.

It hasn't been since what if, and I think
one of the most exciting things that has

happened is you have found your way back
to streaming your 3d prints on Twitch.

I was wondering if you could let
the listeners know how that's been

going and what they can expect
when they turn into a LICO stream.

Leech: Sure.

So January 1st I decided I
was going to come back to the

streaming space and to see.

If I can do it again, thing, you
know, with all the life changes

and such, and it's been happening
every Sunday and it's been great.

I gave myself way too hard of
a first project to complete.

And I think I have upped
my standards over time.

So I'm on month four now
of creating the gauntlet.

And I have now gotten myself.

I've been a boxy resin kit
sitting right next to me.

Like it's getting intense.

So that should actually
be wrapping up soon.

And it's, it's been fun.

If anything, it, it solidifies that
I do want to do this and I do want to

create, and I do actually need to make
time for myself to do things I enjoy.

So it's been, it's been great.

It's been a great

Jude: experience.

That's really cool.

That's really cool.

So when it's done, is it, I don't know.

I haven't seen it.

Is it movable?

Like you're going to snap with, so, yeah,

Leech: so it's completely movable.

It's going to be mounted to
a glove and I'm going to have

the electrical in it as well.

When I make the stones, I'm going
to actually embed them with LEDs.

And so then it'll be
fully controlled as well.

And I don't know if I would go as
far as like you do a snap and they do

things, but, you know, I don't know
quite yet, but maybe I will know.

Cause I just thought of that and I might
take a note of that, but, uh, Yeah,

it's going to be completely wearable.

It goes, it's so large.

My fingers.

Aren't going to really fill it out at all.

And when I put on the full
thing, it goes past my elbow.

So it's, it's the real deal.

Jude: It's truly fantasize.

It is.

Leech: It really is.

Yeah.

Trey: Yeah.

I think you've shared a photo
on Twitter of how big it was by

wearing it without the fingers.

And you have made the point that it
would have been a way bigger power move

for Thanos to use a fingerless gauntlet.

I'll make sure to link that into
the show notes so people can see

just how powerful that truly is.

It really

Leech: was.

I was kind of like I was shook.

It was great.

I never would have ever imagined it unless
I had it in my hands with no fingers.

It was.

How's it straight for

Jude: sure.

Yeah.

That's great.

So pre-order for all your
Congress caused blatant.

Leech: I mean, this actually was a
lot harder with a smaller printer,

but we're getting a larger printer.

I think it was quarter three of this year
and it's going to pretty much, I like to

say, like it can print a storm trooper.

Helmet and like, you know, the click
of a button compared to, oh, I have

to piece it and to like, you know,
cut it, slice it up into six different

items and then glue it all together.

It's like, it's going to kind of be one
and done sand and paint kind of situation.

And I'm so pumped for that.

I think.

Anything bigger, I'm going to kind
of wait for that printer, but it's

going to be really hard to wait
when, you know, especially when this

is complete and I'm just going to
get hungry for more power and such.

Yeah.

Jude: So I didn't ask you the first time,
the first time we met, I remember asking

you about this and I don't remember where
you were at with it, the dark Sabre.

Leech: So.

Models I've been working on for the
sabers are like, you know, the ones when

you're a kid and you can like switch it.

And it all like unfolds instantly.

And the models for that are so thin.

They're so thin for the saber
part, because it all needs to

print in one piece and is nested.

So my saber actually broken
three different places.

I still have the, the hill, but
the rest of the blade itself broke.

So I'm wondering if there's a way of
reinforcing that model and then I will be

able to move past the generic and go for
the dark because, oh, that, especially

if I know how to like throw LEDs in
there, can you imagine like, you know,

like some black light ones or something?

Jude: Oh yeah.

So, well, the thing is, is when you
put it back together, you're going to

be like crossing IPS and it's going
to be like Aragorn sword, right?

Leech: Pretty much.

Yeah.

I ultimately, like, I think
I've said this before.

Like my goal is to have
just, I want walls of.

W pop culture, helmets and
weapons, and just everything

just on my walls everywhere.

I think I've compared it to like
hat, walls, fitting or shoe walls

that people have in their homes.

I just that's.

That's the dream.

That's the dream right there.

Jude: That's awesome.

Trey: Yeah.

Well, if you want to keep up with
Leach's work and see the progress,

make sure you're following them
as XO lead show on Twitter, as

well as twitch.tv/xo lead show.

And of course we'll link to
all of those in the show notes.

Now, before we get into the meat
of the episode, I just wanted to

quickly say, dude, thank you so much
for driving the episode last week.

I'm sure people by now know I did
unfortunately have to miss kind

of drop that on you last minute.

Uh, and I just wanted to say thank you and
to TJ for that wonderful conversation, uh,

last week, however, I wanted to quickly
clarify the Schrodinger's guests joke at

the time that I had texted you that joke,
TJ had both confirmed and unconfirmed

his availability for the episode that
we were supposed to do last week.

And so I joked that I was going to
write in the intro that we had our first

Schrodinger's guests that we got to
confirm by welcoming them to the show.

However, the irony being that I ended
up being the one in the box because I

didn't even make it to the show last week.

So hopefully that clarifies a little
bit of the darkness of the humor,

but ultimately I think it exposes
the surface level, understanding that

Jude: no, no, no.

TJ is TJ to his joint to have TJ.

Um, he missed you, but you know,
I mean, he even said how, how much

more relaxed he was this time?

It was just like, dude, he was great.

It was just like having a
conversation versus the first time

he's like, I felt like I was writing
a book, um, being on the pod.

Uh, but yeah.

So no, it was, it was a lot of fun.

You know, he didn't take any offense
to you dropping out on him last minute,

but we, we, we drove that
truck in pretty well.

So yeah,

Trey: I would say so well.

Yeah, of course.

If you downloaded this episode,
you know, we're going to be talking

about season one, episode four of
moon night and titled the tomb.

So we're going to do this is we have
some pre spoiler thoughts where we

can talk about the episode without
getting too much into the spoilers

before jumping into the spoiler zone.

So before we get there, leech,
what are your pre spoiler

thoughts for this episode?

Leech: This episode made me hungry for
more, in a way that I haven't felt since.

I mean really one division.

Yeah.

I mean, I think you've said
something similar Trey.

I just realized that I think you
might even tweak it that a few

episodes ago, but that's actually
what I wrote down here in my notes.

I am so hungry for all of
this just colorful lore and

I'm just would eat it all up.

It's great.

Trey: Yeah.

I, I think that's 100% what I was
feeling at the end of this tier.

And like, I even had to do the
leach, a litmus test of like, this

is how I want to talk about this.

Is this a spoiler or not?

Because this may be a short section.

I don't know if it's possible to talk
about this episode without spoiling it.

It's just so bizarre.

And the one division comparison
I think fits very absolutely

Jude: it really does.

Um, and I think to tread
lightly, but what do you thinks?

A, I am very much the champion.

If you've listened to us
regularly, you know, I'm very

much championing eight episodes.

This one very much.

This has to be eight.

We have to feel like there's so much left.

That needs to be answered.

But, but I think Lisa is right in
the sense of, he just wanted more.

You know, and, uh, cause
it's, it's something that

I'm really, really enjoying.

Uh, and then I started wondering with
the way this episode went, cause I

know we're appreciable their thoughts.

So I'm going to just say this
far, it would have been neat as a

season cliffhanger with season two.

That would have been really, really cool.

Trey: You are a madman to want
to make people wait that long.

I can't imagine that like you're right.

And that would be that much of a, like
from season to season cliffhanger,

that would be excruciating.

Leech: What do you think?

This is like the early two
thousands, like, come on.

We don't wait for anything

Trey: anymore.

Tonally at guidance fits
fits in with the money stuff.

Jude: Oh my gosh.

Yes.

So it's a game of Thrones.

Tried it and they didn't pull it off.

Well, how dare you cliffhanger?

Trey: How dare you?

Well,

Jude: I would participate in that at all.

Trey: Only the last season,
unfortunately, where I decided to podcast.

Well, I think that's going to do
it for the priest boiler thoughts.

Like I said, it's kind of hard
to talk about this one without

getting into the spoilers.

So like I said, we're going to jump
into the spoiler zone where it will be

fair game for all spoilers in the NCU.

We'll see you on the other side

and we're back.

So, dude, I'm going to take a page
out of your playbook from last week.

Cause I liked the way that you
had set up the most important

topics at the top of the show.

So this week we're going to
be delving into exploring the.

Honesty and protection and the
nucleus of our personality.

So starting with the first, most important
topic, this one is really going to allow

us to focus on the scenes in which Layla
leads, Steven and mark through the deserts

all the way into the tombs, through the
discovery of Mark's history with her.

Leech starting with you.

Uh, where would you like to
start within this section?

It's too much pressure.

Leech: I don't know.

My notes are not in order.

So I'm trying to figure out the
best place to start we're expense

explaining the past currently

Trey: pretty much.

Yeah, just kind of like Layla's Layla's
section within this, uh, this is where

we get a lot of the implied supernatural
violence is that solely gets uncovered

with the gruesome dissecting scene.

I don't know how else to describe it.

Uh, and we see a lot of Layla's,
uh, navigation ability as she's

making her way through the tombs.

As she's running away from the, I'm
going to say mercenaries that were

trying to take her and mark out.

Um, it's a very Laila centric episode.

This this go around.

Leech: I feel like I held my
breath, the entire sequence.

And when she screamed from adrenaline,
that's kind of where I was at

too, because it was non-stop.

There was the tiny little respite for
gathering supplies, but it was nonstop

near misses in a, not in a, I almost got
hit way, but in a, I almost got completely

squished and obliterated from this truck.

And the guy on the back with his gun,
you know, like so many, uh, near misses.

And it was, it was just so tense.

And then to also add emotional,
personal stuff on top of it,

I wanted to scream as well.

Like I couldn't even imagine.

And that was, that was a lot for
just hitting the ground running

for this episode, for sure.

Jude: Oh, yeah.

Like I, I was expecting it and through
that sequence and like I had mentally got,

was like, oh, this is Layla's episode.

This is, you know, I expected
mark slash Steven to be out the

overwhelming majority of it.

I was surprised when he came out of it.

Uh, when he did,

Trey: you know, and as you were
describing that, the catharsis of Layla

screaming and that moment after she,
his like very tightly hugging that

wall, trying to make it across the gap.

That's where I thought you were talking
about, but you really put into perspective

how she's basically under fire almost
literally from the start to that moment.

Uh, yeah, she, she went through a lot and
you know, I talked a lot about implied

violence in the first and second episode.

I think the alternating pattern
in which we see the bombastic

runaway from the mercenaries
and dodging the bullet fires in.

Jack did with the moments where
she's gathering supplies and you

just see the shot of the bloody
utensil, but she doesn't recognize it.

It's just us as the audience is
really creating that sense of danger.

Uh, and I think it's something they've
done such a great job with that at

that beginning section, whenever she
successfully evades the mercenaries when

Mark's just standing there or Steven,
I believe at that point, there was a

point where I genuinely thought we were
getting our first glimpse at the implied

third identity from last week, because
something about it was just so spooky

and then he just stares at the camera.

And then everything's good again.

This show, I think has really solidified
the spooky nature of the show.

This made

Leech: me wonder if it was timed
with the parental controls, because

that's kind of how spooked I was
and I was not ready for that.

Uh, you know, there is violence and
Falcon, and that was a lot, but this was,

this was more and it felt very different.

And I know this story is completely
different, but it was a lot, but

it was completely contextual.

So,

Jude: well, I think we got to see
at this time and, and, and main red.

Right.

And I guess, but what I mean by that
is the first time, the first couple

of episodes where it was implied.

There was a, if you think of like,
for the point of view, if it was

Stephens and Mark's doing the violence,
so we don't get to see it because.

Seeing it through Steven.

And then the second episode, we only
get to see what mark sees because

it's Steve and the one jumping in.

And since he's completely passed out,
the, the violence, any of the models is

taking place is we experienced it with
Layla, you know, and, and that whole made

it seem worse without showing it to us in
the beginning that, that implied, I think

that made this even feel more intense
because now we finally get to see it.

And as an association of, oh, the
quote, unquote protagonist hero

is out, not just passed out, but
also like country's gone, you know?

So you also have the sense of
like, oh, where's your protection?

How do you get out of this at this point?

And I think all of that
helps you ramp it up.

Leech: Yeah, it does.

It's more dangerous now.

It's yeah, I very much felt that for sure.

In this episode,

Trey: you know, and as much as
the danger is ratcheting up, this

isn't the first time that we've
seen supernatural antagonists.

Cause we have the Jackal and
episode two, this time we had a

different type of enemy, is it?

I wanted to throw this out there.

Is that, is it fair to say this might
be one of the grossest episodes or at

least moments we've seen in the MCU
because we didn't get full on shots of,

I believe it's the hecka priest that was.

Dissecting the person, but we
heard every little gushy and gory

detail of what was happening there.

Leech: I had a thought about that
too, as it was happening, when you're

that afraid, you're trying to listen
to see what your next move should be.

So you're like hyper aware of it
happening because of the danger.

And I feel like they crank the
volume up and it was incredibly

unnerving listening to those moist

Jude: places.

Well, I was, I was going to say, not even
that before you got that, you had Steven's

description of, oh, this is blood.

And what do you call it?

Human bits.

Trey: Gore lake.

I think I wrote it down, uh,
chunky chunks of meaty bits.

Yeah.

Jude: I am not laughing at chunks.

Immediate pits.

Trey: I'm sure the dog has a name.

So sorry.

Jude: What's your dog's name?

Briefly.

Okay.

Let's close aliens.

Close Ellen Ripley.

Is that what a Trump, Eleanor flee?

No,

Leech: it's because he ripped
one as soon as we got him.

Trey: Nice.

Okay.

Just for clarity, all
of this is staying in.

I hope, you know, if that's
okay with your permission?

Jude: Well, I had asked what the
dog's name is, cause you held up

the dog and just showed us the top.

Right.

But like, so I started laughing just
as Trey gave what Stephen's line

was about the meaty chunky beds.

Right.

And like, without the video that
it just sounds like I started

laughing at the meaty bits of people.

Trey: Dude, you're brave, you
weren't afraid of this episode.

So to get us back on track,
we were discussing the

gruesomeness of this episode.

Uh, and you were detailing
the way Steven described the

scene as we kind of walked in.

Jude: Right.

Well, and all I was gonna say
about that with him, detailing

that out, you has happened already.

And so you see with Steven's
subscriptions, you see in here, the

aftermath of it, and then again, it's
that implied you're with them hiding

and just hearing the sound and you
already visually kind of know the

results of that, of what's going on.

And so you don't really need to see.

'cause, you know, what's going to
the end results going to be then just

like you said that hearing it what's
my next move, my heightened sense

of awareness and that situation, you
know, it was really well planned out.

It was,

Trey: you know, at leech, I think
to borrow the way you used it,

the heightened sense of awareness.

I think one of the brilliant things
this episode does is intentional or not.

It feels like it is invoking the last
of us video game, which if people aren't

familiar, it is a post-apocalyptic
game that are zombies, not zombies.

They have things called the clickers.

The sound that this hiccup makes in the
episode is almost 100% the same sound.

And I like the way that you phrased
it with that heightened sense of

sound because that video game.

Places that importance on there as well.

And it just imbues a deeper sense of fear.

So

Leech: anyone who's played that game
and saw the episode had like a mere

cat moment of like, oh, what's that?

I recognize that.

How do I talk?

How do

Trey: I dock?

Yes.

You know, one thing I want to add,
they've done this multiple times.

I can't remember exactly where it
was last week, but they've always

given us a point of view perspective.

And then we think it's just
a static shot, but it moves.

So it implies that the camera is another,
let's just say character in the scene

we saw in episode one, when there was
somebody who was on the balcony of

the museum, looking at Stephen episode
two, I believe we see I'm sorry.

Episode three.

We see it.

When mark is in Cairo, this.

Episode does it, but without the camera
movement, where you hear the clicker

watching from a hidden purse, a place
when Layla and Steven are kind of making

their way at the entrance of the tomb.

So again, just more good work on
that setting the stage before they

really give us the full on look.

And I think they also have this nice
contrast between the almost fair.

Of the hecka, as well as the
intentionality of the moves that

it has on the dissecting table,
because we already talked about that.

But the two other scenes, I think that
got me the most is whenever the zombified

hecka is like on the rafters and you
see their fingers holding on to the

floorboard, as it tries to get to Steven.

And then you see the hands come
through the rocks as Layla is

trying to shimmy her way across.

So I think I'm still
scarred by this episode.

Jude: And the thing is,
is they ratchet it up.

You have all of that.

And then the fact that they get
separated, um, and you trying to

stick with Layla here, but like
you see what she's going through.

You have in the back of your mind, not
just that country's not available, but

Stephen refusing to let mark get involved.

And so.

I dunno.

I dunno.

I just lost the, the wording there, but
like, so that in terms of intensity,

in terms of scariness of like, man,
they, they really put it this way.

It really did a good job.

I feel like you couldn't get out

Trey: of it.

Oh yeah.

So within this section, I think one
of the biggest things we have left to

talk about is Layla meeting with HARO.

And this is where we get that confirmation
that mark from Hearos telling was involved

in the death of Layla's father leech.

How were you feeling throughout
the entirety of that scene?

As well as when Layla
finally confronts mark?

Leech: I thought it was interesting
that I also had this investment

in this character that I just,
just learned about the father.

I think it's just cause I want to know
as much as possible of Layla and how

she fits in on all of this, because
there's, you don't just like no more.

Like you, weren't just his neighbor, like
there's history, there there's something.

And so I was grasping on every word
and I was, I was a little disappointed

that she turned around, but there
obviously is enough draw when that

name is mentioned that she would
stop and turn around and go back.

So that was kind of powerful to me
because everything she's done so far.

Has been, you know, all about the mission
and then, you know, she hesitated.

And so that, that spoke very loudly
to me about how important this, you

know, this discussion is about her

Trey: father.

You know, I, I think you really hit
the nail on the head about how you

both were invested and disappointed.

She turned around, she paused and
you could see the pain on her face.

And it made like if I didn't already have
enough beef with heroin enough, my little

scarab, the fact that he threw that at
her as a, as a way to reel her back in.

Oh yeah, come on, dude.

I'm I'm so mad.

So too

Leech: cheap.

Oh my God.

I like the audacity.

Like I can't even like he, he
was, you know, what that tells me

too is like, he's playing dirty.

So he's like playing extra dirty and
trying to delay her any way possible.

It's just that whole thing was,
it's just felt really complicated.

Like there's like weird history there
that we have no, no way of knowing.

So we have to just grasp on to every word
in that conversation and that's all we

Trey: get.

What's telling them.

Is that when cause HARO sets it up as
though he wants to let out this truth

and Layla cuts him out at the passage,
he goes, what are you telling me?

Mark was there.

It's telling that it's something
that has crossed her mind before.

Did you feel that same way too, too?

Do you think this is an idea that she
has held onto without confirmation?

I don't

Jude: know the reason why I say that
is because you had, in the other

episode where they started to plant
that seed of, of mark knows more about

what happened to her dad and then he
realizes, and so that's, that's why

part of me wants to say, yeah, I want
to kind of go down that road with

you of like she's kind of suspect.

Um, but it also, the way they set it up
so far, it makes sense for her, you know?

Cause you had the conversation.

It was like every time I think
I know you, something else

happens and I don't don't know.

And so it leaves us where she
is completely can't trust.

Um, what she thought she did.

Th that's and that's why it's hard to
tell if she always had thought that way.

Trey: And I mean, she does seem
pretty, I don't want to say

accepting, but she listened as
mark was very adamant like that.

Wasn't me, you know,
that I didn't kill him.

And then that's where she starts to say,
okay, well you led the killer to him.

It, to me, I think what stood out
to me most within that entire father

section of this episode is it's heavy
enough that she had to deal with this

realization, but the, to then learn,
this is the basis of their relationship.

Like the reason they met is because
Martin getting entangled with whatever

happened in the murdering of her father.

That's excruciating as well, man.

And maybe men have, maybe that's messed up
that mark would hold onto it for that long

in the relationship and not say anything.

I couldn't

Leech: imagine the blend of
like, you know, longing and

repulsion at the same time.

It's it was a lot.

And I feel like the actor portrayed that.

I, I got that from that scene.

Just pure confusion and just love, hate.

Trey: I mean, what did HARO say?

He's an agony.

Like he synced it with the judgment.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, and it's interesting too, the,
the whole dynamics of the relationship,

because it does get the sense of how do
I want to put it when we first meet her

and she's not, she doesn't know about
Steven and she's like all our adventures

together and, and, and it felt engaged
the impression that, uh, the foundation

or their relationship, wasn't very solid.

In the first place, it was more
about the adventures together and

that shared experience, common goal.

Yeah.

Rather than actually knowing each other.

And Layla's discovering this,
I'm like, Hey, I don't really

know who this person is.

Um, and, and so for me, I'm kind
of looking at it part of like,

you probably shouldn't have
got married in the first place.

Um, you know, uh, but you
have those moments where it's

the same time you can see.

Well, well they just care
for each other, you know?

Um, so yeah, it's very like bad,
like to early two thousands,

late nineties teen romance.

Like, you know, the whole, like, she's
all that like, oh, it's supposed to be a

vet and I fall in love with you anyways.

Kind of thing.

Like, oh, I go there because
it's, I feel guilty because I'm

gonna fall in love with you.

Anyway.

Then now I can't tell
you, like I said, field,

Leech: I felt that when the statement was
made that, oh, you know, what's con gone.

It's just Steven.

There's no more mark.

And she says like, well, don't
you think that you should have

discussed that with me or not?

She didn't say discuss.

She said, like, told me.

And I was just like, oh, here we go.

But then she ended up saying like, but you
didn't even tell me it wasn't, uh, this

is my decision to, and I was expecting
all of that, that whole thing, but it was

just like, you didn't even tell me, like,
could you have at least told me your wife?

And I, I actually really respected that.

I don't know who exactly wrote those
words, but I really appreciated

that because I don't need to see
another female mummy movie kind of

thing, where the chicks, just the.

And then I'm done with that.

And I really appreciated that kind of
weird character development in that line.

Jude: Yeah.

But you're right.

It, it, it was, it was a good
way to put it because that could

have been written differently.

Leech: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Trey: Yeah.

Whenever that scene played out, like I
immediately was thinking of the episode

with yabba, where she talked about how
Marcus taking that choice away from her

and here it's her reclaiming like, Hey,
I could have decided that for myself.

You just didn't let me know.

Um, so I do want to
say a couple of things.

We're getting to the point where
we can move into the next section.

However, I think we can kind of bridge
that gap by talking about some of the

relationship stuff that we have here,
going into the mark and Stephen section.

However, I'm glad you brought up the
mid to early two thousands romance dude,

because one of the things that I wanted
to put in my priest, part of the thought

that I didn't, I ended up changing this.

This is the most it's felt like the mummy.

I mean, outside of the setting, of
course it's an action adventure movie

of like watching Brendan Frasier and
Rachel Wise, just exploring pyramids

and fighting off supernatural.

Like that's the only thing I
could think of throughout the

middle section of this episode

Jude: is, is this the point where
I say I've never seen the mummy

Leech: wait.

Okay.

That is Jude.

Okay.

Just double-check that's usually traced

Trey: line.

Being so afraid because my
family wanted to go see it.

And I was so afraid of the trailer
that I didn't want to see it.

And I ended up loving it.

Like that was the first time I remember
like a horror quote unquote movie.

But now that I've seen, it's like, not,
not as skewed as I've done it, number

Jude: the trailer.

I remember it coming out, but there
was something about it that I just

didn't feel compelled to go see it.

I loved it.

Trey: I think I vaguely remember
watching that with your brother.

I think he went with us.

I'll

Jude: have to double check.

That would be family.

Daniel fam.

Trey: Oh man.

So to bridge this gap, leech, you
brought up how or no, I'm sorry.

Jude.

You brought up how you were wondering
whether or not they should have even

gotten married because it doesn't
seem like there was a substantial

part of a relationship there.

I don't know how I feel about
the forced love triangle that's

going on with this episode.

Is it, is it weird to
anybody else or is that just.

I'm fine if

Leech: they address it.

And then they're like nip it in
the bud, like next episode, because

it's going to need to be addressed.

Like there's two dudes
involved now in the same body.

Like there's no way you can get around it.

I don't feel

Trey: at least.

Yeah.

I think what stood out to me is you both
see, there's clearly a connection with

Layla and mark and Steven, because she has
that, it's like, oh, you smell like him.

Or she's like smiling in the center frame
whenever he's talking about the, the

statue and he's geeking out about it.

So she has this fondness for him.

But at the same time, she had
like that weird look on her face

whenever he went in for the kiss.

And it sh it's obviously it's awkward
because I'm sure she's having to go

through what it means to have these
two identities in the same person.

But it feels like something
that is not fully explored yet.

And I'm just kind of left
uncomfortable with it.

So.

It

Leech: kind of, it reminds me of
like, when you, the whole thing

of, you know, it feels different.

If you do the thing out of kindness
for me versus you're doing the thing.

Cause I asked you to, and I feel
like Steven is the, the mark

in a way, doing things that.

Yes versus like, that's just mark.

It's like, so like the Steven is
like this, like, oh, you're kind.

And you're like, nice.

And you talk to me and you're
so much softer and it's like,

but that's not actually mark.

That's like this weird fantasy.

He exactly.

Yeah.

It's like a fantasy of
like, not the same person.

So I think it's, it's just
super, it's like, there's

nothing to build off of that.

It's just all a construct and it's
all in your head in a sense, because

they're two different people.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, it it's so, so like in, you
know, you meet somebody and they're

the most wonderful person in the world.

Thank you.

You're the most wonderful
person in the world.

And the next thing, you know,
eventually they're not, oh, so

Leech: marriage.

So you're talking about
marriage in general.

Okay.

Jude: It just, it just is.

And you either relationship ends
and you move on and nothing wrong

with that, or the acceptance for
the who, who they are and move on.

And so like, and this is
where I really felt for Layla.

Cause it was like, this is
physically the same person.

Right.

But there's always the
messiness of our relationship.

This is who they really are warts and all.

And then there's the pedestal
version slash fantasy.

If that makes sense.

The, like from the initial meet.

How about that from the initial
honeymoon infatuation kind of stuff.

And she's getting to like, re-experience
that through Steven, but with literally

the same body that she's already attracted

Leech: to, I couldn't even.

Even you have someone that's, you
know, oh, they choose the things

I like, and they don't have your
annoying habits, but it's like, let's

just throw them in the same body.

That's not confusing.

Like, yeah.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and it reminds me of a movie that
I love and the book is great as well,

a high fidelity, you know, and one of
his in the was that of like, yeah, all

those other women, all those other people
that I get interested in, it's just a

fantasy and it's not fulfilling because
there's no depth the person that I'm with.

But here it's like, like you said, you're
getting the personality traits that you

would like wish for out of this person.

And physically the same are the
personality traits, maybe the idea,

the other not missing a personality.

I know, I know we're dealing
with different identities, but

in that context, it's, it's
these interests, that's the draw.

But with somebody that,
you know, in a very

Trey: intimate way.

Yeah.

And you know, I've been trying to
be careful because, you know, we've

set up how this isn't an accurate
portrayal of did, but at least within

the context of the show, it feels like
they have written Stephen to be the

ideal version of the common interest.

And so.

I think, uh, I think it was you league.

It was the fantasy.

I think that that feels uncomfortable.

And I think what really solidified it
and I'll use this to transition to the

next section is how it becomes a point
that marks like, so you kissed her.

He was like, well, you're
going to drown me now.

Like, it was just, it was weird.

I don't know why it was, you know, what,
between this and low-key apparently

just romances are not my favorite thing,

but, uh, yeah, moving into the
next, most important topic.

This one is honesty and protection.

Uh, we can use this section to detail
the sequences in which Stephen and mark

are still vying for control, but more
through the lens of now having lost

Concho and the revelation that Stephen
is embodying honesty and mark is trying

to embody at least attempted protection.

Uh, so Jude, where would you like
to start within this section?

These sections

Leech: are rough, but like
they make sense, but they're

rough just cause there's.

Jude: No, I think you're right
on these topics being difficult.

And I think that's virtue of the episode,
because like, we're talking about these

sections and there's things that I
want to bring up that I'm also holding

back for the last main important topic

Leech: everything's meshed together.

I think that's where it

Jude: becomes.

Yeah.

And it's, and it's, and it's, and so it's

Trey: like, yeah, I even
texted you last night, dude.

I was like, cause normally we try and do
four most important topics, but trying

to fit in a fourth one as interwoven
as these stories are in this episode

would have felt like it was, you know,
spreading it too thin, knowing we've

got a, uh, a hippo in the room that
we need to address by the end of this.

Yeah.

Jude: Well, and that was the thing
is like in the end thing where

it was like, so was that Layla's
ideal, like other personality ideal.

I wish mark had.

I don't know anymore.

Like, cause I mean, at this point we're
talking about, and I think rightfully

so as if that's what Layla's seeing
and Steven, but when the episode ends.

I have no idea.

Trey: I do want to start here though.

You know, you and leach have
kind of hinted at it with the

feeling that Concho is gone.

Uh, the big moment last week, being that
he was in case in the statue, uh, I think

you and TJ, Jude were questioning whether
or not mark could access those powers.

And we got that confirmation here.

Uh, To me, I love how much they
hammered home, his presence being gone.

As they're walking up to the tomb, you
get that quick shot of like a Crow or

some sort of bird just perched on the
top where conscience normally would be.

They walk a few more steps
and you see a goat purse and

kind of like that rock arch.

So they were really trying to remind
you that he wasn't there and they were

on their own, uh, date, take it along.

Okay.

You know, I'm sure they could have used
the super strength from katsu, but I was

kind of surprised at how willing Steven
was able to go into that tomb, you know,

after some prodding here and there.

Jude: Well, it's interesting.

The, the.

The will or the force, maybe you have
Steven to like, I mean, Hey, for him,

you get this element of adventure.

Like, and I'm getting to do stuff
that I've only imagined at the gift

shop, but there's also an element
where he's fighting for his existence.

Like we, we made the deal,
country's gone the edge.

I had a problem with that
part of the show, but, but

we made a deal countries go.

And so you're going to live up to
your T your end of the deal, you know?

And so in that sense, he's
fighting for his, him to be the

primary, maybe identity to him.

This is almost over.

Trey: Yeah.

You know, I love how you, you detailed
the sense of adventure being the thing

that drives Steven forward, because as
lovingly as possible that I could put it.

He's a dork and I love how excited he gets
with just being in what he's dreamed of,

of, of his entire time at the gift shop.

But one of the things I think that stood
out to me was that moment, right before

they jump into it, uh, we see mark take
control and sucker punch Steven leads.

What did you think of seeing mark be
able to just take control like that?

Whereas in previous episodes
it's been a bit of a chore to be

able to gain that back that had

Leech: big Hoke vibes, harsher.

Oh my goodness.

Very much.

Ragnar rock vibes.

Um, It was, it was coming,
like he knew it was coming.

He knew it was worth it.

Trey: He didn't, he didn't.

Leech: Yeah, exactly.

He gambled and he lost.

So

Jude: yeah, I, it was a great moment.

It was funny.

Oh yeah, it was, it was one of
those moments that you talked about

where this show does it well, of
like pulling something funny, you

know, that it breaks tension or

Trey: whatnot, you know, I'm glad you
described it as alluding to the Hulk

because this isn't the first time that
that's been brought up on this podcast.

Like that was one of the things I
talked about in episode one, where

they kind of show that fake out
of like, oh no, Mark's in trouble.

He's being attacked by the Jackal
before he transforms, cut to the jackals

now running away from their life.

So there, there does seem to be
some sort of hope influence here.

And as much as the show continues
to set things up and then pay it off

by diving deeper, you know, we get
the taste of mark taking control,

punching himself in the face.

But later on in the episode, when Layla
finally confronts mark, technically

Mark Stevens, the one to control, but
she asked, can mark hear me right now?

Mark is able to come through, like
without any sort of fight from Stephen,

whether or not that Steven, like
recognizing the moment and just seeding

control to mark, or if it's just,
whenever things get that emotional

Mark's able to take control back.

It was, it was interesting how much more
they were giving us all of that dynamic

between who gets to be the driver.

Jude: Well, there's an element where
that's, what I was about to say is, is

I don't feel like it broke the rules
of the show only because I remember

something that affected when they first
switched and Steven was asking, is

this what your life's always been like?

And yeah, it's hard to get used to it.

And then mark said something about.

It'll take all your will to like
show up or something like that.

And if you imagine mark has been living
like that for the past three months,

he's had the practice of channeling his
will to intervene if that makes sense.

And so, like, that's why for me that
not only was the punch of funny and

good moment and still felt like it made
sense within the rules of what they

established of how that, that interaction

Trey: can work.

Yeah.

It's, it's been slowly
building, uh, throughout these

Jude: episodes now.

What, what really bothered me and TJ
said it about, and I think he's right.

Steven being the moral compass of the
group, it's felt out of character,

especially a Stephen's like going
to be honest, like, Hey Rebecca,

you got to know this about mark,
you know, and you have all that.

But the idea of like, well, conscious,
gone, and you said, you'd go away.

You know, I conscious gone though.

You know, it's not because like, you've
accomplished your cache or whatever.

Like he's fully aware that country's
has gone and why he's gone.

And so the idea that like now
it's like, now he's gone, you

gotta uphold your end of the deal.

Um, that just didn't feel like.

Steven the moral compass to me.

So, so that, that I felt was like a little
bit, when I get it, you, you, you need

that to happen to have these moments and
to have a reason for Steven to be there.

Cause it, cause otherwise it makes total
sense from the other episodes of like,

no, this is mark training type stuff.

Let's switch, you know?

Um, so you, so you need a reason
for Steven to say no and to be

there, but it just, it just felt
out of character for Steven for me.

Leech: Was it Steven, can you, can
you, for sure say it was Steven though.

That's what I want to know.

If it felt that are out of
character for you, could you go

back and see if he really thought
it was Steven the whole time?

I'm

Jude: talking about how I felt in my first
read slash watch of, of how that went.

Um, and talking about that second.

As if I'm talking about that
section, trying to ignore

the last third of the show.

Leech: Oh no.

I'm, I mean, I'm referencing
last episode where we kind of had

this like, wait that wasn't you.

So I, we, you on, like, it did feel
this whole thing was like weird

Brendan Frazier vibes for Steven.

Like it was, it was

Jude: a little different.

The only reason why I would be
convinced that it, Steven is, it just

seems having not been introduced yet
to that third character or potential

third character that, you know,
how, how are we want to put it?

We would be implying that, that,
that third identity knows Stephen's

identity well enough to fake it.

And the, the parameters of
the deal and all of that.

And it feels like, Hey, if they do
that, and like later we come to find

out of like, oh, there's some weird
manipulation and you're tricking

both of them to leave the details for
you for when you show up, like when

would he have got that information?

From being passed out
into the desert to get it.

Why would you this third identity has
the memories and knowledge of there.

So, so that's the only reason why I feel
comfortable saying it wasn't gotcha.

The potential third identity.

Um, but at this, like
I said, at this point,

Trey: let's re we'll re examine this.

Once we get to the final, most important
topic, you know, I'll go to bat for.

Uh, it feels in line with the same Steven.

I didn't get to talk about it last
week, but it, it made me laugh so

hard in that opening shot where Marcus
chasing those people through each oats

and then he blacks out and we come to,
and we find out that Steven was trying

to go to the airport and he was just
immediately trying to leave the situation.

That feels like a Steven thing to me
to just be like, okay, we're done.

Yeah, but you're right, dude.

He's too far in it.

At this point, he knows the
stakes that he wouldn't do that.

The other thin defense that I would
give is if we are kind of seeing mark

be an admiration of Stephen, being
able to tell later, About why he's

been pushing her away because of
what concha is doing and recognizing

that he was not able to do that.

Maybe this is Steven trying to do a little
bit more of that selfish mark thing, but

ultimately you see, he can't do that.

So he had missed the truth to Layla.

Uh, so it's almost kind of like this.

I don't want to say inverse cause I
feel like I go to that well too much,

but we're seeing them branch off into
being more than the personality or the

identity they've been described to at
this point and seeing how that shoe fits.

Jude: Wait, hold on.

If I understand what you're saying, right.

Basically it's what I think I heard
you say is that Steven was trying to

Trey: be marked yes.

More of that.

Like, I don't want to say selfish, but it.

It's clearly like, no, I'm going
to, I'm going to take lead.

I'm going to do this.

This is for me kind of okay.

Jude: Okay.

Well that makes sense.

I mean, kind of what we're saying about
the same body and different personality

and skillsets, and it's like from Layla's
point of view, it's like same body,

but the desire, the interests that I
would, that would really wish mark had.

But then also the other way of like,
Stephen was like, dude, I wish I

could be able to like mark, you know?

Um, and even though it represents of
like mark being like yeah, if I had

Stephen's knowledge and it wasn't just
the muscle and that's all I need, I just,

just look and tell me, you know, okay.

Yeah.

I'm with you on that.

That's it.

Trey: Cool.

Okay.

I got worried.

I was like, oh, did I get it
whenever it comes to like trying

to audibly detail the points of.

Steven and mark and Layla, I
start to get tripped on the words,

but I'm glad that came across.

So eventually we get to the
point where Steven and mark

find the tomb of Alexander.

The great, I know for certain I could
never be an adventurer because one, I'd

never be able to push the lid off the
sarcophagus and to never in a million

years, would I have thought to search
down the gullet of Alexander's to

find the, uh, the little stash here?

What did you think of
that, that sequence leech?

Leech: Um, I was just thinking the whole
time, like, you're going to step on one

of those stepping stones and it's again,
and then arrows, or, you know, stuff's

going to shoot out from the walls.

I think I've just watched too many
indie Jones, but, uh, I was just,

I was full on histologic motor.

That whole thing.

I was blind.

I was so happy to watch that whole scene.

Like, oh, it's this, you
know, this text and stuff.

I'm like, yeah, it is.

Oh yeah.

What?

You read that part too.

Oh yeah.

You're going to point that out.

Yep.

Eating it up.

It was amazing.

I loved every minute, like it was
so pandering and I accepted it

Jude: completely.

All the, all the tropes were there.

Oh yeah.

Leech: It was great.

Like if he had like the costume on
like that would've made it better.

Like, you know, the full-on
like explorers had the matching

cammo body suit thing going on.

I mean like, oh,

Jude: sorry.

I say friend Daniel messaged
me while he was watching it.

And he's like, who can draw that?

Who can freehand draw on the sand?

That perfectly Stephen.

Exactly.

Trey: Steve Steven care,

Jude: you know, but it is like that,
that style that you mentioned, the

Indiana Jones, those types of things.

Is that it hit all the tropes.

I mean,

Leech: walking in there I'd be like
doing like the John Travolta, like

looking around like, like I'd never
be like, this is, this is actually

no, there's no way, but I ate it up.

It was amazing.

Trey: Well it's to me, it's so funny as
infatuated as Steven is with Layla the

first, maybe not the first moment, but
among the first where it starting to be

clear that Layla is also endearing to him.

She thinks he's calling her
beautiful, but it's the statue

that he's calling gorgeous.

I believe it is.

And it's so funny to me that like
he's in his element so much that

the rest of the world fades away.

And the, the reason that I wrote Stephen's
a dork is in that final sequence,

whenever he finally gets to the statue
and Layla walks in, we know how much

she has just gone through with the
revelation of her father as Stephen,

just like pokes his head up from this
Acarbose and it just raises his hand

in the air and he's like, found it.

And he's like, no winter goes to us.

And he's just like, he's

Jude: adorable, man.

Leech: He was like, this
is, we go down this hallway.

Right.

And then we get chased
by the giant Boulder.

Is that, is that this hallway,
like, I felt like that was coming up

Jude: next

Trey: well, and I love, he had
the, uh, he's like, look, there's

a lot of blood and bones that way.

Why don't we try and find an
alternate route out of this?

Leech: Yeah.

I'm seeing some like health
potions around here too.

That means I was going to
be a boss, the corridor.

Trey: I'm so glad you said that
because whenever he pulls the statue

out of the mummy, the music is timed.

So perfectly, I swear to you,
it sounds like the Zelda theme.

Whenever you find a chest,
go back and listen to it.

It's that same time.

Oh,

Jude: that's amazing.

So there's a, and I'll have to
send it to both of y'all and.

Th there's a meme, I guess, that,
that I found where it's like shows

this sidewalk or know that it's,
uh, it's on the sidewalk, but it

has like this brick retaining wall.

And there's a portion of it.

That's a different style of brick
for like about the size of it.

You know, then it says like I've
played enough video games to know

that there's something on the other
side and that's, that's exactly

what this whole sequence or that.

Oh yeah.

Trey: So

Jude: the only thing that was missing
was the switch of like somebody putting

something else in the gullets please

just a quick, like,

Trey: nah, as disgusting as that
was the idea of trying to rapidly

push something else back down
and Gullah is very uncomfortable.

Oh man.

Jude: And you know, when the
writing was, they thought of that

Trey: maybe, maybe we'll get some deleted
scenes whenever the assembled documentary.

So leech there, we've talked about
it a little bit, but there's a moment

where as Layla goes in for the kiss
to Stephen, Stephen blurts out the

truth of why mark has been pushing her
away, where did you think that was the

right move for Steven in that moment?

I

Leech: think it's a lot easier to tell
someone something that they should know

when you have nothing, you know, it
doesn't really affect you all that much.

So I feel like it, it might've been
an inappropriate time for sure, but

I feel like it was very easy for him
to say it and just get it out there.

It's like, oh, this isn't that hard.

You know, I have no
emotional connection to it.

Like, let's just get this done.

Like, by the way, like before
anything else continues, blah.

So I thought that was like, For the story.

It was, you know, I needed to get out
there, but also, you know, you have

nothing to lose saying it, it just needed
to get said, oh, you don't want it.

You're afraid of her knowing.

And you know, oh, like what if, what
if, oh, she knows now we're good.

Jude: I don't know if I agree
with you on there's nothing for

Steven to lose because in what we
talked about, it's the same body.

So like you run into that problem of like,
like identity wise, it wasn't Steven.

Physically though you were, the body
was there, it, it, you participated,

you, did you, you know what I mean?

And so it makes me wonder like, like,
can you have that level of separation?

Leech: I mean, he was
pretty pissed off at him.

He say, you know, if I need a protein
smoothie recipe, I'll hit you up.

Like he, yeah.

And maybe it was out of spite.

I don't know.

Jude: But I mean, for Layla though,
like to, to have that separation

of like, oh, I'm dealing with,

Leech: oh yeah, just that full on
bright, like the words coming out

of his mouth that that happened.

So, I mean, like for her,
it's like, dude, what

Trey: she handles it very well
because you have that moment.

You have the moment where.

Steven genuinely, at least to
the identity of Stephen openly

expresses sentiments to her.

I'm sorry, your, you lost your
father and she takes it sincerely.

And then she has the moment where it
finally breaks after she learns the truth.

There was like enough,
I want to talk to mark.

So it's like, Three, two to three
instances that have happening and then

it finally breaks at, towards the end.

But it is weird.

I don't know if culpability
is the right word, but yeah.

Jude: Yeah.

It's tough to say.

Um, cause you get into
that weird mind body.

Yeah,

Leech: I think it was a net net
instance of their interaction.

It was appropriate to just clear the air.

Like I get why that would happen.

But I think that whole thing
was like inappropriate for

what they were trying to do.

Like they needed to get down there.

Like, can we grab some more flares?

Let's go like, let's, let's do this.

Trey: That's not the time.

Well, unless there's anything more in
this section, I think we can get to

the one we've really been waiting for.

I mean, the

Jude: one that makes this the first
hour of this spike, so relevant,

Trey: the one that makes me so
glad that leaches on this episode,

because this last third is built
for leech and Litas rabbit hole.

My gosh.

So with that being said, we're going to
transition into the final important topic,

which is the nucleus of our personality.

Like I said, we're going to detail the
entirety of that final sequence, where

we discover what we think we know may
in fact, be Justin Mark's head June.

We'll go ahead and start with you.

Cause we did a bit of a swap because
I think this is the section you

needed to get out on the table.

Jude: Okay.

So I was trying to take the other
sections at like the same way

we're doing the other episodes.

Like I'm just going to ma like
take the end out of my mind.

But at this point, it's like, well, is
the Layla we saw actually having the

feelings and reactions that we think
she did or was that March projection?

I guess mark is the identity prime.

The original now is that,
is that what's established.

Um, I love that that showed the old movie.

'cause it, like you said, it hit all
the tropes, Indiana Jones, you know?

And I was like, oh my
gosh, Alan Quartermaine.

And I think it was one of them and the
Juul of denial and romancing the stone and

like all of that, John rhe of that style
of, of movie, he was just right there.

You know, I felt like there was redemption
for Donna because she had a lot of

flagging after episode one, the actresses,
I was like, why are you so mean to Steven?

You know?

And then now she could say, it was
like, well, you know, I'm playing it.

Like we've known each
other for such a long time.

And it's like, no, they're
in a mental hospital and he's

painting the plot and go away.

Like I, yeah.

So like it's.

I dunno, like this is the definition
that I always go back to an interview.

I saw with the creators and writers
of the CW arrow show and they were in,

I remember, I don't remember where I
saw it, but I remember them talking

about like, when I'm writing an ending
that, that a hero has to get out of.

If it takes us less than a week
to figure out how to get out of

it, the audience will figure it
out and it's not a good ending.

And, and I'm just imagining them going
through that process of like, yeah, let's,

let's see how to get out of this one.

You know, it had to explain
this away and I'm stumped.

Trey: I'm going to come to leach
here in a second, but I want to

on the record just clearly stated.

Are you taking this end as confirmation
that all of this is in the mental

hospital and inside Mark's head?

I have no idea.

No idea.

Okay.

Jude: Because he got shot.

And so

Trey: it was justification for Donna.

So I don't know.

I was just going to see if you
were like 100% in the camp that

this is all in Mark's head.

I don't know.

Okay.

Leech, I don't know.

Where do you fall?

Okay.

Leech: On this 42 slide
presentation here, you will see.

Um, so timeline wise,
this is after he got shot.

So that just anchors that there for me.

I am still very confused about Stephen's
timeline because he's had his job

long enough to piss off his boss
enough and piss off everyone around

him enough and apparently have enough
of a googly-eyed relationship with

someone to get a date out of them.

Like, is that really three months?

Is that longer?

That's super muddy.

But I do like the idea that, you know,
Mark's the dominant one because everything

points to that, but they're both there.

I, I don't know.

We're just getting.

Perspective.

It's not that I don't know.

I want to think he's dominant, but we're
just on the merch prospective right now.

Right.

Is that just to get more mark or
say, cause he's, you know, the prime,

Jude: well, first it's always
good to have more Oscar Isaac.

Trey: Yeah.

You

Jude: can never go wrong.

Yeah.

But that's what I'm saying.

Like he was shot.

So is this kind of like in his head
and how the mark Steven brain is in

the waning moments between death and
life dealing with did, is it limbo or

is it him coming out of a psychosis?

Like I, I just, I don't know.

I wonder.

Leech: If like how avatars die and if
they do die, because I'm really, I'm,

I'm leaning towards, this is either
all, not all of it's in his head, but

like his mind's being rated right now.

And this is how his mind is, I guess,
shown to us and like how his mind works,

because he thinks he's crazy all the time.

And maybe this is, you
know, how he displays that.

I don't know this one really.

I'm still trying to digest
it really I've seen it twice.

And I just, I don't know.

Jude: Yeah.

And it had everything, it had the
gold statue guy, it had the cane,

the glass, like it had everything.

And it just like all the references.

Trey: Oh, I remind note taking section
I gave up on this important topic.

What I did is I just started a
bullet point and wrote down every

reference I saw and I got up to 17
and I doubt that's even like half of

it to 17 different instances of them
referring to the previous episodes.

Jude: Oh yeah.

Leech: This is like, I'm so sorry.

I just thought what if this is
like conscious, like weird limbo

layer for all of his past avatar?

And because he's gone, that's why
it's not the head table anymore.

And someone else is taking that seat
and using that leverage to manipulate

Steven and mark it's like his wing
of the, his re the realm or whatnot.

Like, you know, cause the drawing,
the drawing sticks out to me.

I don't know what it is.

The sketch of Concho.

That's just the

Trey: hummingbird slash
conscious you head.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jude: And it would make sense
why Arthur's their former avatar?

Trey: Yep.

There was a part of me that was feeling.

And I couldn't find the angle
cause it doesn't sound like

Arthur wants constitute back.

Uh, even if he, this was some sort of
ploy to get contrary away from mark and

Steven, we know that the, the he's just
the avatar and the avatar is missing

country because he's been in the statue.

But there was something that stood
out to me in the ways that they really

focused in on Arthur saying I can't help
someone who doesn't want to be saved.

And the echoing of those two statements
make me feel like this was a ploy of his

by trying to get him to break somehow.

Cause that's another wording that we've
seen HARO use a four where he's like,

oh, is it because you're easy to break?

It makes me feel like this is
something constructed because

somebody wants something from
mark and Stephen, like you said,

Leech: if he's broken as an avatar,
then who does he go to next?

If Layla, if Layla, you know,
finally laughter he's figured out

and there's no one for him to go to.

What do you go to a previous avatar?

Or is there anyone else in light?

Like, I'm wondering if this is
like a way to like mentally get

him out of the game for Concho.

So Contra can't come back.

Even if they can somehow get the statue.

Jude: Look, I'm going to say it.

I would have everybody in there
including HARO is a different

personality or identity.

Trey: Yeah, that definitely, uh, across
my mind, it's, it's, there's so many

ways to go with it, you know, as long
we start throwing out theories, you

know what else I thought it could
have possibly been right before

Steven pushes this a COVID has open.

He's like, oh, everything is
telling me not to open this.

And Mark's like, just do it.

I wonder if there was something,
some sort of like tying into the

supernatural side of like mummies and
everything they're exploring here.

If maybe it's just some sort of.

And this is like the, the presentation
of that curse taking form of in mark

and Stevens has, as they're trying
to write what is happening, because

even within the revelation of the
mental hospitals scenario, mark is

like dazed and confused as though he's
just been injected with something.

So I'm wondering if that's the case
where it's less to do with did and

being shot and more just to do with the
hallucinations of whatever they uncovered

when they opened the sarcophagus.

And that's going full on in early
two thousands adventure trips,

Leech: and then this score be in Q

Jude: rises.

Leech: Totally was and he killed it.

It was so it was so perfect.

It was just the right time in
history for that to happen.

It was so cringey looking

Jude: back, all I know are the trailers

I'm a

Leech: with, I think it could
be any theory at this point.

Like we don't, this show has
kept us in the dark on so much.

What also somehow keeping a story
going along without us just getting

purely frustrated time constraints,
probably have a factor in why.

Moving so fast, but I feel so
uncomfortable not knowing anything

Jude: more.

Well, there's an element of that.

I was wondering how they pulled it off.

Like, did they, you know, you hear
about, okay, you kind of write with

the end in mind, I'm always wondering,
like, did they write this scene and

what we haven't seen yet first and then,
and even shot it and then found a way.

From the beginning on, in order to,
to place all the different actors and

egg Easter eggs, you know what I mean?

Like, like kind of reverse
engineer backwards.

Yeah.

Just put it in reverse, you know, because
I'm imagining like, as, as a script

writer and stuff, how do you, there's
an element of, of planning out, but

like, they're so intentional, you know,
it's not of like this person, you're

going to see more than once and it's
going to be an interaction to where

it's going to stick with the audience.

So that way, when you see it really
quickly, It's going to trigger

that, that memory, you know?

And so it's not like a random grab.

It was so well planned out.

Trey: Yeah.

This definitely feels like one of those
inspired set pieces that, cause there was

an interview that I'll try and link to.

Again, we linked it in the first
episode where Mohammed DIA talked

about, he was so prepared for this.

I think he mentioned having
something in mind that he pitched.

And so I could see this being the,
the, the idea and everything else

was filling in to make sure that idea
worked because it is so thorough.

It is so like every shot, there is
something to refer back to the previous

three episodes, which by the way, I
did put this in my pre spoiler thought.

I w we talked about how other
critics got the first four episodes

of this show before it aired.

I can't imagine what the
weight has been like for them.

To have that in and then be like, all
right, I got to wait for a month to get

resolution like that would drive me crazy.

Leech: Watching it all back to
back to back like, oh my gosh,

I couldn't, I couldn't even, I

Jude: can't remember.

Now if today it was coworker and friend,
Ken or friend in shop, dog and cohost.

Second time person, TJ,
and it get all the, now

Trey: you're just rubbing it

Jude: into the prefixes him.

I don't remember which one said it,
but they mentioned, as I mentioned

how I said at the beginning, This
would have been a really cool season

finale and give us a season two.

Then one of them mentioned about your
preschooler thought if the idea of

like, well, dude, just imagine having
those four episodes and having to

wait, but now having a whole year plus
to wait for that climate Clippinger

um, that would have been crazy.

Trey: I don't think I
could have handled it.

Not

Jude: that I know.

I would've done it though.

Trey: I have another theory about
what's going on here and I want to see

if it holds water for anybody else.

There is another section where Layla.

Comes in and she won the bingo
and she's like, we won, we won and

she starts to run off and then she
comes back and she goes, I promise,

I'll share it with you this time.

I'm this is a very far limb.

But again, if this is the thoughts
of a dying person, who's just been

shot and is contextualizing the world
around them within this world, that

makes sense of the mental hospital.

I wonder if we'll find out that
Laila somehow in those final moments,

whether she's always had it or found
it in that final sequence became

an avatar for another Egyptian God.

And that is what that hippo is
towards the end coming into save them.

But it's just, we're seeing it from Mark's
perspective, but in the real world, we're

seeing that Layla's actually imbued with
powers now to help them out of that seat.

So, you know

Jude: what I, I'm going to say.

You have, you have something.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, the

Trey: hangup, my hangup being the
statue that is found is of Ahmed,

the God, or did he got, I'm not
entirely sure at the end is a hippo.

We've already established that the Ahmed
is the, the alligator lady with the head.

So I don't know where Layla would have
found another statute lying around.

Other than that I have I've, that's
where I want to start building my

grains of sand is on Layla coming into
the real world with new avatar powers.

Jude: Well, and, and I mean, one
of the things TJ brought up on

the last pod and, and we kind of
discussed was, and this is before

knowing what the end of this episode.

Layla was clearly
familiar with that world.

And it wouldn't conscious you would
wanted her as an avatar and found her

as an avatar or her possibility of
being an avatar attractive for reason.

So in that sense, I don't think
it's far off to say that she ends

up being an avatar somehow in this,
in this, and that was what was

Trey: happening.

What do you think lead to my, uh, my
building a sturdy sandcastle here?

Leech: Well, it kind of has me
wondering now that if this is like

a weird avatar limbo area, maybe
there's been someone else in Laila this

whole time and that's actually Layla.

Trey: Oh, wow.

Like even, even hidden to her as well.

Leech: Yeah.

Like Layla's been like stuck in this
limbo and she's obviously lost it and

may, Ooh, maybe this is where they go.

Uh, when they're not.

I don't know

Trey: both the identities of mark
and the Egyptian gods since they

need the, the avatars to be able
to communicate with in the world.

Leech: Yeah.

So that's like your standby

Trey: limbo standby for the real world.

Leech: I, yeah, I kinda, I didn't
really think about the Layla

angle of like she's right there.

Like they have a full on
interaction with bingo and stuff.

Like I just grazed by that it
was really focused on the whole

mark and Steven thing, but.

There's there's something

Trey: there.

We get doxed with so much
information and I don't blame you

Jude: well, and I wonder, I mean, as,
as well thought out as this has been,

there has to be something significant.

I think about bingo and the letters called
and the number's called there is a wrong

Leech: letter called too.

It was like a T or a J or something.

Right.

Trey: I think for sure.

. I think I didn't write it down, but,
um, no, I just had a thought, uh,

back to what you were saying, leech
of the possibility of this being the

limbo of either the did personalities
or the Egyptian gods themselves.

It when, whenever Marcus shot and he
falls backward in the water, two things,

one, you see that he fell and you can
see the bottom of the water as he's

laying on the, the, not the concrete,
but just the, the floor of the two.

And then the next shot we
have is him falling through.

So the, obviously the floor has gone.

I just start to, to insinuate, okay, this
is all in his head, but as he falls and

he gets further away from the camera, he
starts to look more and more like one of

those statutes that they get in tuned in.

I'm wondering if this is your right
leech, that this is the, the, the limbo.

And maybe this is somehow a process
of Arthur trying to encapsulate

mark and Stephen in a statue so that
he traps them and out of the way.

So I'm, I'm getting off my Layla's
and avatar and kind of getting

next to you on your limb here.

Jude: Well, I'm going
to back you up on the.

Well, I mean, cause, cause at the very
beginning, you know, you show, they showed

where the stone ceramic, whatever country
was and led us to believe that there's

more than just conscious you there.

Right.

And you're talking about the very

Trey: beginning, not a Cyrus,
one of the Egyptian gods as

he's putting the statue away.

Right?

Jude: Yeah.

But like it made us still believe
there's more other guts, right?

With that in mind.

What if, what HARO was doing?

What if all night, what if, what horror
was doing and sucking out the life

soul or whatever was encapsulating
them and they didn't really die.

They're just waiting to be freed.

Oh.

Trey: That's a lot of stacks.

I'm assuming the times that
we've seen horo do that is not,

not exclusive to the episodes.

I can't imagine how much of a
waiting room they've got going on.

Jude: Yeah, he has a nice little
collection there probably play

a full game of chess with him.

Leech: Did anyone else stick out?

I feel like they focused on
a lot of faces in there too.

Where any of them from the trial, I guess,
is what that would be called and from CDC.

Jude: Yeah.

That's like

that.

I don't know.

I recognized a lot of, uh, museum people,
the two police officers, DC people.

So, so I recognize a lot of them, but I
didn't catch if it was any of the avatars.

Trey: I did see the gold statue,
man, which you already talked about.

I'm 80% sure.

I saw the old woman and the
elevator from the first episode.

Um, I don't think I saw any of the
gods, the avatars for the gods, but I'm

trying to think of anybody else stuck
out to me that way and off the top of my

Jude: head.

No.

Yeah.

I don't think so.

I I'd have to really like pause.

Look through it.

For

Trey: all the confusion we have.

One of the solidifying things we
do have is we see both Steven and

mark actually physically present.

How did you feel about
seeing the meat leech?

Leech: Oh, it felt like such a relief.

Just relief in the air
of like, oh, thank God.

I'm not crazy.

I'm also crazy.

Cause we're both here.

So that was, that was wild to see
the movie obsessed person in me.

It was like, okay, how are
they going to pull this off?

Like, let me see that
stunt double kind of thing.

Like, let me see like the
heritable and everything.

And it was very well done.

I will say from that, you know,
outside point of view, like they

did a, such a good job on that.

That was Steven and mark that
wasn't, you know, oh, that's mark.

Stunt double and I'm
totally lost immersion.

Like they did a really good job on that.

And it was such a relief to
have a friend help figure out

what the heck is happening.

Trey: Yeah.

I, I really appreciated the sense of
comfort they have when they embrace

like, oh my God, how is this possible?

I don't know, but you're
here kind of thing.

Like, and I think the contrast of that
to them seeing the third sarcophagus,

a red circle and playing violence,
uh, and they just kind of pass

through without even investigating it.

Like, I think even some consciously
they know to avoid that section.

And it just created that, that
horrifying feeling to me, it

almost reminded me, is it Jude?

I think you, well, I think both of
you in, in leach will know this is it.

Batman begins where somebody is freeing a
bunch of the Arkham inmates and they pass

by one in particular and then they leave.

I'm reaching for Batman.

There's a perfect example.

The MCU, the,

Jude: uh,

Leech: Loki, uh, on,

Trey: in Asgard.

Yeah, they do that in dark world too.

There was a Batman one, but I think
the dark world, one's probably

a better fit for this podcast.

Jude: Yeah.

But I mean, but I know what you're
talking about is Batman begins where

at the end, where they're freeing the

Trey: people.

Yeah.

They hover on one and they just leave
it . So that's what it, that's what it

felt like to me see that sarcophagus in
the room and they just got to ignore it.

Jude: I think there, I don't know
where we're at because again,

speculation, but I feel like that
that's going to be another identity.

Let out.

Um, and the, one of the ways they
pulled that off so well was you

had an Oscar Isaac in the room.

And the other one, I believe
was Michael Benjamin Hernandez,

who is Oscar Isaac's brother.

No,

Leech: that makes sense.

That man has like the most
recognizable hairline of like it's.

I just there's no other way.

Other than blood that can duplicate

Trey: that.

How lucky that they were able to get
a brother of similar statutes, right.

Leech: The insurance policy
on those two, my goodness.

Trey: I don't want to say
we're coming to an end.

Cause like you said, dude, we could
spend the rest of the night here, but

unless we have any more, we might be
able to move to listeners first takes.

Jude: Yeah, I think we should.

Cause like I, I, at this
point, like it's, it's I,

Trey: who knows I'll I'll check with you.

Leech: How are we just not going
to address the very end at all

Jude: the hippo?

Yeah.

Oh, I thought it wasn't mentioned,

Leech: I mean, it was mentioned,

Jude: but like, I don't know
what to make of the hippo.

Leech: Like I think that
throws all the theories

Jude: for a loop.

Like what am I?

One of my students looked it up and I,
and so I'm kind of ignoring it, but, but

also can I say it's going, gonna kind
of say, and they looked it up, I think

Trey: is going to remove.

And then you can say, okay, I'll
get, hold on, put them back.

I'll give you thumbs up.

Jude: I got rid of the headphones.

I'll give you the thumbs up.

Um, so, so they looked up and all
that, but all it was, I don't think

it gives anything else, but it was
like, it was like, like you said,

with Ahmet in the, the alligator.

Right.

And in there it was just like, oh,
a hippo is the Egyptian God of this.

And I won't say what this is.

Okay.

How about that?

But like, well, it was like, you
didn't really tell me much cause out,

cause it's like, well, thematically,
it's the Egyptian and it's another

God and stuff that I don't know
the relation between, you know?

Trey: So that's the thing.

Oh, I'll add this and bring
back in, there was something

about it that signaled friendly.

So you get this feeling
of like again company.

Yeah.

There's not, yeah.

Yeah.

She's not looking at the camera.

Leech: I just realized I've had my
headphones on backwards this whole time.

Trey: That's really why we
discuss this headphone shit.

Jude: Traded.

Say one thing that I won't tell you,
he did say he got the feeling that,

that the indication for as quickly
as it was, this hippo was friendly.

Leech: I mean, it started out with
high versus like a slap in the face.

So like the way we've been
going late, no creepy fingers

coming through the woodwork.

So I'm, I'm relieved

Jude: beggars.

Trey: Can't be choosers on that part.

Yeah.

Leech: Like, you know, you're
either an ally or an enemy at that

point, like in that situation.

So fair,

Jude: fair.

Leech: Uh, hippos are terrifying though.

They are super off track, but like, oh
my God, have you seen like the water?

They throw the watermelon on them.

It's just like half a bite and it's good.

Jude: Don't mess with it.

You

Trey: just don't, don't tug on
Superman's Cape until mess with him.

Wow.

You really hate Zack Snyder.

Uh, you know, the, the bizarreness of
like my priest boiler thought of like, not

knowing what to say it is, is the hippo.

Like every time I thought I had
an angle on where we were going, I

just keep coming back to the hippo.

Like, what am I supposed
to read at this point?

And of course we'll, we'll find
out more eventually, but man, what

a, what a way to throw us at the.

Oh, I was

Leech: digging too that whole time.

I mean, you know, you know, I was like
just trying to like poke holes in that

thing and like get theories and just
every five seconds I was invalidated

just watching that last 10 minutes.

So who knows?

I hope it's like just pieces of all
of our stuff and it makes sense.

And I know it

Trey: will just like a collection of
everything we've thrown out today might

Leech: be.

And plus some stuff we
never even thought of.

Cause we just don't know.

We just don't.

We have nothing, nothing to go off of.

This is all such new territory.

Yeah.

Trey: You know, I, I talked about
in episode one, so much of the

talk going into this season was
this is standalone from the MCU.

There's more connections in
this show versus this one.

Like we've made it four episodes and
there's no overarching connection.

I wonder if that was intentional
to throw us off once we got here

so that we couldn't clearly say,
oh yeah, that's the real world,

because obviously they referenced
the snap or they referenced iron.

Yeah.

So I wonder if we're going to
start to see that change now that

we're past this point, but it's,

Jude: it's a limited series.

It's probably just group
sessions from here on out.

Leech: If it starts
with the group session.

Oh,

Trey: yeah.

Well, I think we're going to have to put
a pin on this until next week, so let's go

ahead and move into listeners first takes.

So we did reach out on social media
to see what everybody else thought

of this episode, and it feels very
appropriate to start with this one.

This one comes in from the slushie
on Twitter and it reads that

ending though with a bunch of
exclamation marks and question marks.

I think, uh, I think she
summarized it perfectly.

Uh,

Jude: me one of these
days, I'll figure it out.

Okay, sorry.

Okay, here we go.

You ready?

Leech: You spelled Twitter wrong on that.

And I'm just done like a

Trey: slushie.

Oh, I missed a T.

Jude: Yeah,

Leech: just ruined the whole

Jude: episode.

Start over.

Um, kin on Twitter with two T's.

Uh, I think Spider-Man says it all for me.

And he put a gift.

I'm a Spiderman from far from home
and the WTF moment as his identity

is revealed by J Jonah, Jameson.

Uh, you know what that's um, I mean, as
I say, you know, coworker, Shawn texted

me just as we're starting to record.

And he said something very similar.

He's like, now it's
become the mind twister.

I was hoping.

You know, and I think all day,
anybody I talked to you that seems

as represented was just like, what is

Trey: this?

Yeah.

Oh, I forgot to ask leech.

Are you comfortable reading the next

Leech: one?

Yeah, that's fine.

I was like trying to see if you are
going to ask just cause I didn't know

if I was going to jump in or not and

Trey: I got it.

This is the problem with being
so comfortable with you here.

I forget you're not regular.

Like

Leech: I knew that that was what you
were waiting on, but like you hadn't.

So we were both stuck in

Jude: that like,

Trey: well, the floor is all yours.

Leech: Okay.

Love.

Okay.

So then we have here
friend Daniel on Twitter.

Loved it.

Blends horror, adventure in psychological
thriller with a wacky humor.

That's fresh,

Trey: not too fresh though.

Cause those corpses looked
like they were rotting.

Jude: Yeah.

Well it, it, it is, it
is, it is very fresh.

I think, you know, there's
reminiscence of a wander vision.

Um, but even this from the
beginning of one division,

usually something was up right.

And just, what was it?

Whereas here they did it.

They sucked you in, you know, and
then it will then pull the rug out.

Leech: Well, you already thought all this
psychological stuff, like we had already

kind of established that and we're moving
forward and getting to the conclusion.

No.

Jude: Yup.

You're wrong?

Yeah.

That's what that episode says.

Yeah.

It's it's

Trey: crazy.

Uh, finally, this last one comes
in from Ben Dutton, Maddie, over on

Instagram and it reads, I was going
to say how much I loved episode four.

But now I'm thinking is WTF.

I love that three out
of the four first takes.

We have all essentially WTF.

Jude: So can I add what TJ texted me?

Yeah.

Go for it.

So he texted me last
night, like 9 48 dude.

And I texted him back to

the nearest one.

And he's like, what in
the world just happened?

He's like the only thing I said
that was correct so far was that

the show feels unpredictable and
all over the place was like, yeah,

that's pretty much what would happen.

Oh,

Trey: Well, of course, those
were listeners first take.

So thank you all that reached out
and let us know what you thought.

Uh, if you want to partake in that for
future episodes, of course, you can

always follow us on social media, but
we are trying something new this season.

So if you want to audibly leave
your thoughts, you can always hit

the phone number (512) 893-1355.

So yeah, so with first takes
out of the way, that's going

to bring us to final thoughts.

So we're changing this up a little bit
this season, uh, it's a bit of a, uh,

a combination of straight thoughts.

Predictions are something to
consider going into next week.

Uh, you don't necessarily have to do
all three of them, but leech, do you

have any final thoughts for the seven.

Leech: I feel like I have more lingering
questions and final thoughts, because I

don't know what to think at this point.

Trey: What about you

Jude: June?

I feel the same way.

Cause like making prediction, I felt like
this whole last section was like, oh,

these kinds of predictions, something.

I will say that something to
consider, I expected this week

for us to get that third identity.

And I feel like since we didn't,
I think they're going to spend

an episode bearing as deeper into
the mind-bending what's going on.

That's going to have to be
untangled in the final finale.

And I, in other words, like I can't
like, that's just your typical thing,

so it's not a big stretch, but it's,
it's like, like I feel like it's going

to be a double down if that makes sense.

Oh, and on, on confusion
of what's actually

Leech: real, we're going through
like the Steven experience.

Oh, wow.

What's

Trey: happening.

We have to go deeper before
we get any sort of clarity.

I think, you know, for me something to
consider going into next week as much

talk as there's been about this being
a limited run, we've essentially only.

To moon night scenes, moon
scenes of him in the suit.

I'm really expecting a uptick.

And the amount of time we
see in that suit and that can

Leech: be, and get that book of Boba
Fett ending for the season with mood

Trey: night.

How dare you?

Jude: Yeah.

Watch the next episode.

Be like an intro episode.

Does she hold,

Trey: we're done with Moonlight now.

She hooks our best friend.

Jude: Oh yeah.

Like this next episode is gonna be
like an intro to she hold or it's

like an extended in tag of Shawn.

She, you know,

Trey: oh man.

So yeah, that's what I I'm
considering going into next week.

We really feel like we're going
to see more of the moon night

superhero, uh, in this next episode.

And I think it's going to be.

Even in the absence of country,

Jude: in

Trey: the absence of country.

Yeah.

I think we're going to find some way
where he's able to tap into that power

without consciously being around, or
at least conscious of being in the

statue because we see Hearos able to
tap into some power with Ahmet being

an encased in the statute as well.

Jude: Okay.

Cause my only thing is, is everything
we've seen HARO do has been

prior to the end of the episode.

And it could be the case that mark
is just running around in a suit.

And there's no real,
like super power thing.

That's

Leech: so he's the gold man.

Jude: Well, well, like, I mean, I
mean, comic wise and, and we, we, we

generally try to stay away from comic
knowledge, uh, just for spoiler reasons.

You know, he wa he was Moonlight
was compared a lot to, to Batman.

Gotcha.

And, and, you know, in a sense of like the
pinning of what run you're looking at, as

I understand it, is it a power superpower,
or is it a guy running around in a suit

the way Batman runs a lot in the suit?

And so, like, in that sense, if,
if that's what we ended up finding

out, you see more of the suit.

And the reason why conscious not involved
is because it was just him in the suit.

Um, so I'm curious to see
which way this is going

Trey: to go and cool.

Definitely something to
consider for next week.

Well, I think this is going to
do it, Lisa, thank you so much

for joining us on this episode.

Like I said earlier, this felt like
it was perfect for you to come in.

We schedule these guests bus without
knowing what episodes are going to be.

What, but I'm so glad this was
the one you got to join in on.

Leech: I, I almost texted you right
after and was just like, of course,

it's this episode that I decided to
wait until this moment to say that,

because it was just too perfect.

Like you, like you knew he
really did get those four

Trey: episodes.

Huh?

Kind of if I get super fan

Jude: that's right.

That's right.

You know what out of respect for
us, we actually didn't get the

episodes, but he texted us and he's
like, oh, you should get leech.

Trey: We don't want to
say, but we're saying

Leech: you got to like
sync all the promos.

I totally understand.

Trey: Yeah.

Well, yeah, if you want to keep up with
leach and what they do, make sure you're

following them@xoletoontwitterandtwitch.tv
slash XO . As for this show, if

you want to keep in touch with
us, you can find us at MC you need

to know on Twitter and Instagram.

It's a great place to connect with us,
uh, and hear our thoughts on the episode

before the episode drops on Monday.

Um, as well as getting in on
shaping the show, we put out polls

to vote on what should be your
title, uh, and a lot of fun stuff.

Jude: And of course, scroll down
to the bottom of the show notes.

You'll find all the various links we've
mentioned throughout this episode.

You'll find the phone number to leave us
a voicemail and have your voice heard.

Uh, if you do call in,
please make sure to leave.

Uh, the name you want mentioned.

Is it the discord name and Twitter
handle and Instagram handle?

Um, you know, if you need a prefix ahead
of, you know, they're like friend Daniel

or, you know, coworker, Shawn, or friend
Sean, and all of that, please let us know.

Um, and of course jump the discord to talk
with all of us in the MCU related things.

Um, am I leaving anything out yet?

I am share with a friend.

Trey: We'd also like to thank Nick Sandi
for the use of our theme song, which

is his rendition of the Avengers theme.

You can find more of his work
on the SoundCloud, which is

linked in the show notes as well.

That's going to do it.

Thank you so much for listening.

Uh, Legion, Jude.

Thank you so much for doing this as well.

Thank you tray.

Thank you.

We'll see you all next week.

Boom.

That's an episode, dude.

I love, love, love that you talked
about the different monikers.

And the reason that is brought up
is because of TJ who still didn't

get a moniker in that speech.

So leach last week, TJ was upset that
everybody else gets friend Daniel,

coworker, Daniel, family, Daniel.

And we only refer to him as TJ

Leech: I'll join the
club dude, like, jeez.

Jude: It's like, why can't
we all be friends in the pod?

Trey: It's because we know too
many Daniels and too many shots.

That is

Leech: really weird.

Actually.

You do know a

Trey: lot.

I know,

Jude: I think they're

Trey: made up and then the first time
we had, Hey, don't do that to me.

The first time we had Rob Logan
on, we had another one of Jude's

friends who was also named as rock

Jude: Rob.

Yeah.

For that, for the Simpsons.

Uh,

Trey: low-key special.

Of course it was the same week.

We put out that,

Jude: oh gosh.