Trey: Hello and welcome back to another
episode of MCU Need to Know a podcast

dedicated to the Marvel cinematic
universe and everything you need to know.

I'm Trey.

Jude: I'm Jude.

How are you doing Trey?

Trey: Dude, I'm excited.

It's so good to have you back.

Jude: It's good to be back.

It's kind of weird.

I'm just going to say this up
front today was the first day of

school for me and all my teacher
friends are gonna nod terrible nod.

There's no tired, like
first day of school tired.

It just as a different thing.

So just, I'm just going to say
it up front and now power third,

you know, there seems to be.

A collection of podcaster
slash teachers as well.

So I feel like among friends, we
know among podcasters listening

and it's just like, yep.

They, what?

Cause, I mean, I was talking to you before
we recorded and you know, I was speaking

with my sister and I she's a teacher and
I was picking up very sentiment vibes.

So my heart goes out to all the teachers
that, you know, starting for the first

time of the year, around this time.

Yes.

Yeah.

You know, it, it's good to have you back.

I, again, I was talking to my mom
about this as well, where I still

don't know what you thought about
the first episode and this episode.

So I'm like doubly excited
to see what you think.

I feel like I'm getting a double
dose of jute thoughts this week.

Nice, nice.

You know what?

I really enjoyed the episode.

Yeah.

I thoroughly enjoyed the episode.

Well, let me, let me do the one drawback.

Okay.

I am not a fan of the animation.

Really.

Um, and I, and I think that that's
honestly a me thing and just, I just,

maybe a curmudgeon or something.

I don't know.

Typically animation wise, I, I still just
love just the regular 2d cartoon look.

Right.

Or if it's going to be a 3d, I
like what they do with clone wars.

And that style of 3d animation.

And for some reason, sometimes animation
styles can just become distracting for me.

And so I'm not a big fan of this
animation style, to be honest, but I

fully admit and realize that that's
like a personal preference on my end.

Trey: It, it, it is a personal
preference, but I do want to

state, I don't think you're alone.

I I've definitely heard some
pushback on the animation style.

So it seems to be polarizing at best.

Yeah.

Jude: So, so in, in that, but otherwise,
like I loved the concept or the idea

that, okay, here's the one choice in
the slight difference that, or this, or,

or I don't want to say slight, but the,
the choice that was made, that, that

didn't set off into another direction.

And I.

And where that goes.

I think you talked about it.

I believe Fred, Daniel and leach talked
about it, which Sanjana y'all did

such a great job on that episode, by
the way, it was such a great episode.

Uh, it was so much fun to listen to
cause I didn't, you know, I didn't

even sit in on that recording.

So like getting to listen to it for
the first time was, was really awesome.

Trey: I made the cut, but I told them
immediately from when they were done,

like every time that we've had a guest
on one of the sentiments is like,

I'm so used to listening to y'all and
speaking at my speakers, but realizing

I can actually speak to you this time.

I finally felt that sitting here
silently listening to them because

I wanted to be like, oh wait.

Oh, they can't hear me.

So it was such a surreal feeling to
be on this side of that recording.

Jude: That's so funny.

That's so funny.

Well, yeah, it was a wonderful episode.

Nick Sandy did great on
a last minute call in.

Oh my

Trey: God.

Okay.

And so again, cause I didn't get
this happened all post recording.

Nick Sandy is a genius.

I feel bad because I'm definitely
realizing I'm that friend now with

like less than 24 hours ago, I
was like, Hey Nick, I got an idea.

Do think you can do
didn't hesitate one bit.

He was like, yeah, dude.

Sure.

Hold on.

And he said, let me tinker.

And then like I did that recording
thing and I sent it to him.

He was like, dude, this is perfect.

I'm going to write to this.

And he had it up and like I say, less
than 24 hours, it was less than 12

hours that he had it ready to go.

Jude: That is amazing.

That is amazing.

Sandy, you should definitely follow him.

Follow him podcast.

Audio needs.

Look them up.

Uh it's.

It's it's amazing.

Uh, but yeah, so like I'll
send you that episode, like

Steve was still Steve, right?

Like they didn't fundamentally change.

Who they were, it was just
a choice that put them in a

different direction, you know?

And so in that sense, it was, it was fun.

I really, really enjoyed the episode.

Um, I will say Bradley Whitford,
you know, he, I don't think he

was in, he was the jerk officer.

He was, I believe in the
agent Carter one shot.

He was,

Trey: but yeah,

Jude: he wasn't in the movie.

Trey: Yeah.

Yeah.

And that was, that was thanks to, um,
Jimmy who reached out to us on discord,

who mentioned that as well, but yeah,
he was, he was definitely the one shot.

Yeah.

Jude: So, yeah.

So I, I did, I really, really enjoyed it.

Uh, I think my favorite moment
was the one with the sword.

Yeah.

Just cause I had that.

That image of like Excalibur and sword
in the stone and only the chosen can,

can pull it out of the, of the stone and
she pulls it out of the wall and that

was kind of like her annointing moment.

Um, and so, yeah, that was just

Trey: fantastic.

I liked that.

I didn't, I didn't think of that at all.

And that's such a wonderful read
to pick up on, so that's cool.

And I'll say this, like I've
wanted a shield for so long.

Cause it episode I want
a sword and shield.

Jude: You have to hit up a
Renaissance fair, even find yourself

needing, find yourself a sword

Trey: who knows fingers
crossed maybe one day.

Well, cool.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for sharing
that I've been eagerly

awaiting to hear your thoughts.

Yes, of course.

If you downloaded this episode,
uh, you know that we're going to be

talking about season one, episode,
two of what if which is entitled,

what if to Cholla became a star Lord?

So, uh, the way this is going to work is
we're going to be talking about some pre

spoiler thoughts, and then we'll jump into
the spoiler zone where it'll be fair game.

So before we get there, Jude, do
you have any pre spoiler thoughts

about this second episode?

Hmm.

Jude: I, you know what, from the
one trailer that I watched, uh, I

will say that like, I don't know,
episode one, wasn't much different.

Like there wasn't a lot
of surprises necessarily.

And so I, in a way it was kind of almost
exactly what I expected after seeing.

I mean, we knew it was gonna
be Star-Lord from the trailer,

like the initial trailer.

So in, in that way, you know, my,
my initial thought was watching.

It was like, oh, okay.

Like, this is exactly what they said,
you know, you know, and it varies.

The other thing, I kept thinking, watching
the other one, but, but in this one as

well, They're very much cartoons and I can
feel that in, and not just because of the

link and because it's animated, but even
the writing style, you know, you mentioned

some, some in the solo pod about Bucky.

One-liners not quite landing for you.

And I don't disagree necessarily on
that, but also it was very cartoonish.

I like the one-liners and the
type of dialogue that they use.

Like, it is very much a cartoon,

Trey: you know, that's a
great way to put it because.

I, my neck, there's a new, there's a
new Spiderman show on Disney channel Jr.

That my nephew is into.

And I think it's called
spidey and friends.

And I just remember I was watching
it with him and there was a

scene where Peter Parker shows.

Miles Morales and, and spider,
Gwen are all on screen.

And like, Peter Parker's like,
I'll use my webs to swing in.

And then my, I was like, I'll
use my electricity to shock him.

And then Spider-Man was like,
I'll use my glider or something.

And the reason I'm bringing that
up is because I think that, like,

it just clicked for me when you
said like, oh, this is a cartoon.

That feeling of the
way that lines are red.

And I feel like you have one tier,
where is that Disney channel Jr.

Then you have this next tier with
like Bucky's lines and then like,

then you have MCU live action.

And so that just clicked for me.

I, yeah,

Jude: yeah.

Yeah.

Cause I mean, that's exactly, to me
what it feels like it's, you know,

and I, I think that's a good thing,

Trey: so, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

And hopefully that doesn't come
across as pejorative towards the show.

It's just different.

Well for me, uh, I think going into
this series, uh, because critics got

the first three episodes of this series.

So a lot of the early social media
buzz was talking about how the first

episode was solid and the show got
progressively better as it went on.

Man, I did not expect that level
of jump from episode one to two.

Like I liked episode one, well enough,
but I, I stated last week, some of my

problems with the pacing and just some
things feeling way to expedite it.

For me, I think this episode felt
like it was willing to break away

from the familiarity and in doing
so it was having fun with that.

What if premise so much more with a
much more improved tempo and I really

hope that this is the start of a trend
because this one, it just, I remember

just feeling like anything was possible.

Cause it's funny, you talked about
feeling like, oh, this is what

I expected from the trailers.

This one much more for me was
like, I don't know what to expect.

And I'm really, really happy.

Well,

Jude: like I expect you
to she's star Lord, right?

The challah star, Lord.

Yeah.

I don't know what we're still
in preached for their thoughts.

So I'm having a hard time putting
my, my, my thoughts into words.

So I'm going to, I'm going to pause
right there for a second and then

save it for after the spoiler.

Trey: Okay.

Well, I got one more pre-split
thought, and then we can

jump into the spoiler zone.

So, uh, the last point I wanted
to make is that knowing that this,

what if is one of Chadwick Bozeman's
last performances really makes this

episode all that much more bittersweet
because it is the perfect embodiment

of both the character and the actor.

And I'm very thankful that
we were able to get this.

Yeah,

Jude: yeah.

It was tough.

It was, it was good too.

Well, and I I'll be honest.

I mentioned this, uh, there was parts
of me that didn't quite recognize

the voice, you know, and I mean, he
was playing a different character,

so it was going to be different.

Right.

Um, and, and I think it, I think I caught
it more the second time than I did before.

Trey: Well, cool.

Yeah, I think you're right.

That there's definitely more to discuss
over in the spoiler zone, but before we

do, if you are enjoying this episode,
don't forget to follow us on Twitter

and Instagram with at MCU need to know.

Uh, we'd love to hear what you
think about this episode as well.

And you can definitely find us there.

Like we said, we're going to go
out and jump the swirlers zone.

So you're going to hear an audio cue.

And on the other side, it will
be fair game for all spoilers in

the MCU up until this episode.

So we'll see you on the other side

and we're back the way that we have
decided we're going to take on these.

What if episodes is to really take time
to examine the choice, the difference.

Altered the universe.

So for this episode, with, to
challah, it was Yondu deciding to

send his henchmen to apprehend the
target rather than going himself.

And because of that, they
ended up picking up a young to

tequila instead of Peter Quill.

So is there anything you'd like
to zone in on with this choice?

Jude: Yeah, I'm going to be honest.

I was a little disappointed in that
choice because here's where and I'm

wrestling with was that expectations
and it just wasn't fulfilled.

I just liked so much in the first
episode of, of we're following

along and captain America first
Avenger, and there's something

different that's made in that choice.

The choice here of Yondu kidding
someone else to pick them up.

That just, wasn't very satisfying to me
on the choice because it wasn't like,

oh, here's this small change since the
course of action in a different direction.

And at least it didn't at
least I didn't feel that way.

Uh, so I was a little disappointed
in that, but otherwise, like, I,

you know, it makes sense, right?

Like that's, they pick
up a different person.

I don't wanna say the wrong
person because it's a choice.

Right.

They pick up a different person.

And so like that it was, it
made sense and it was fine.

And, you know, but it, it, I, I was kind
of hoping for that similar format of

like, oh, what is it that I'm watching
a regular movie, the regular movie.

And then there was an active decision
that we see made differently.

And I, and I don't think
we got to see that.

Trey: Right.

Yeah.

And I'm kind of there with you
cause they might know notes.

I put the, I don't think the choice
mattered as much as it did with

captain Carter's because captains
Carters was the literal empowerment

of women being in the room and how
much that diversity is important.

But in this episode, I think the episode
is more exploring the question that

that watcher states about, you know,
is your destiny determined by your

nature or the nature of your world.

And so it just, it didn't feel like
the is haphazard a good way to put it.

Like the haphazard nature of the
differences was as the medically

dependent on the first episode.

But I do like that in either universe.

We know that to Charla goes about trying
to spread peace as much as he can.

So I don't think it needed to rely.

On the choice as much as that
first episode, because it wasn't as

dependent, if that makes well, that

Jude: makes sense.

Like I get it.

And that makes sense.

It's just, it was just, it was
again, very where the first episode

felt like we're going to put you
in the first movie and show a

difference of in this detour, right.

This one was, felt more cartoon.

And it was like, oh, we
got somebody else to do it.

And they're not that bright.

And they're going to justify it
will, there were some readings,

so it had to be something.

And you know what I mean?

And so in that way, that's where I was
just like, oh, I wish I wish it would have

been like maybe the choice was to Cholla.

Not, not to tell it to Chaka.

Didn't keep them in a bubble.

And so like they were out exploring the
world cause that's what wanted to do.

And he was taken, you know, like,
yeah, like, well, Conda from the

beginning was already to Chaka
making a choice to not keep a conduit

is what brought to Charla out.

You know what I mean?

That's an act of different choice from
that character rather than to Cholla

being a kid and just kind of wondering
past the zone and I get it in the wrong,

you know, sometimes you're at the wrong
place at the wrong time, but so yeah,

I mean, it didn't take away from the
episode I enjoyed watching the episode.

It was just that the choice does,
wasn't something that I would.

It was kind of,

Trey: yeah, I do want to say this.

It only took two episodes in the season,
but I do have some grains of sand work.

And so if you'll indulge me a
little bit, I'd like to explore,

I like to export a little bit, so.

I really think that this episode
gave us our first peak as the watcher

being more than just a narrator.

And so the, the, my line of reasoning is
that we opened up with him this episode

saying that what we see is endless
light, but to him, he sees vast wounds.

And so there's moments where he
continuously keeps educating us by saying

stuff like that, uh, saying he won't
interfere or saying that our destinies

are like purely an equation, but I think
we can read like a genuine curiosity

from him and the ordinary lives of the
multi-verse, which is why he may have been

focused on to challah in this instance.

And so the reason that I started to pick
that up is we have that moment later on

and I'm skipping ahead, but we had that
moment where to Chaka our, excuse me, to

challah finds the beacon, that to Chaka
put out saying that we will search every

light in this plane or the next, and I
don't think that's a coincidence just

because the verbiage feels very similar.

And I think that demonstrates that
that family love is a counterbalance

to the rigidness of the Watchers,
understanding of the multi-verse.

And so I feel like we can start to see
like a peak of curiosity from the watcher.

At least that's what I was
reading from all his continued

presence in this episode.

Yeah.

Watch was

Jude: far more involved.

Yeah.

Use that term loosely.

It was far more involved in
this episode than the first one.

Yeah.

So I think you're onto something.

Trey: Yeah, we got glimpses of them.

It's it's a peek behind a facade.

Do we

Jude: see Jeffrey right live action.

Trey: I think so.

I think so what about you?

Jude: I hope so.

I hope so.

I think that'd be

Trey: great.

Yeah.

Jeffrey Wright has phenomenal.

I first was aware of him in
boardwalk empire and then saw

him, him saw him in Westworld
and he's just a very great actor.

Yeah.

I think that'd

Jude: be great.

Trey: Well, unless there's any
more in this choice, uh, I think

we can move on to the next, most de

Jude: challah, the Explorer,

Trey: you know, I didn't realize how
much that sounded like Dora the Explorer

until you just said it out loud, because
I've only written these, you just

Jude: to challenge the Explorer
and his map like, oh man,

Trey: that's fantastic.

Well, as the most important topic
states, this is going to be our

section to really hone in on the
character of, to challah as star Lord.

So.

Starting with me this time.

I got to say, I absolutely love
the shift in confidence from Peter

to, to chat with Peter Quill.

It felt like there was always this air
of like putting on a front, but when

you flip them to Charla lives up to
that star Lord names so much more, and

it was a fun twist on the character.

Yes.

And I, I think the episode does very
great work, having core AF be like almost

fanboying in front of, to challah, because
I think that helps set the tone for

our expectations as we learn more about

.
Jude: Well, okay.

Talking about the different
shift in the movie, right.

From, from the movie.

So clearly it's the challah instead
of Peter Quill, but that great moment.

Gardens the galaxy, what do you say?

Who, you know, and, and, but here he's
like knows who he is and it's just in

this reverence forum is so fantastic.

Uh, that, that was a really good shift.

Trey: Yeah.

It's very, it's again, one of our
favorite words, whenever we're reviewing

stuff, it's very economical to convey
those ideas with very minimal dialogue.

Jude: So, so there's, they're, they're
able to be economical with minimal

dialogue there cause we've seen guardians
of the galaxy and we know that law

that's coming and they're able to play,
you know, mess with their expectations.

Right.

And it's kind of the same thing.

Like weird know what's coming and captain
America first Avenger and they play with

our expectations and a different choice.

That's where I, that's where I think
maybe you put it in better words

than my, my issue with the choice.

Is it, wasn't something
that we can see coming.

And then, oh, something slightly
different happened and, and that's,

and that's where it was just like,
oh, you, you know what I mean?

And I felt like they're clever
enough to have done it better.

Trey: You know, I don't know if I
stated this words precisely in my

last episode, but that was the general
feeling that I had of the episode.

Not really exploring its premise.

I feel what I'm hearing from you is
that they have that opportunity to

play with their expectations, with the
choice and it was a missed opportunity.

So sort of that same feeling of, you
know, you have this premise and you're

you don't, you're not fully embracing it.

Yeah, I get you.

Yeah.

That makes a lot of sense

Jude: to me.

There's eight episodes and these
could be very much, you know, set

up for whatever else is to come.

Trey: And, you know, and while we're
here, still in this section talking

about the flip, I do enjoy the humility
from in this part too, because.

You know, Koretz starts fanboying very
early on and to tell us like, oh, I'm I

am, but a humble scavenger or whatever.

Like he immediately tries to
diffuse it and then he's like,

but you may know me by this name.

And he says it, and it's just,
it's such a funny flip for when

Peter Quill tried to use that.

And it just didn't quite land the same.

Well, Quill, I just got to
say that before we got to,

Jude: Hey, you know what, sometimes you're
in the right place at the right time.

And sometimes you're the wrong
place at the wrong time, you know?

And then we get guardians of
the galaxy or we get, what if

Trey: it makes it makes roadies moment
and end game with, so he's an idiot.

Yeah.

Jude: Okay.

Did you see NCU rewinds tweet?

Trey: I saw y'all's

Jude: interaction.

Yeah.

Like, cause that change
in confidence, right?

What's the.

The that you were just talking about.

It is interesting.

And just for anybody listening to
the MC rewind, tweeted, like, is

this, what if a best case scenario
for the MCU in the movies was like

a worst case scenario for the MCU?

And it's like, this is what
we're, we're seeing play out.

And I'm like, yeah, I kinda like that.

I kind of hope to see
that that's what going on.

Trey: Yeah.

Y'all don't understand the sacred
timeline was great for Kane.

Not everybody.

Yeah.

That's fantastic.

Yeah.

I, I saw y'all's interaction on Twitter
and I got a big chuckle out of that.

Given everything I've read others,
speak about Chadwick, Boseman and

everything I've seen in betrayal
of his various characters.

It's so fitting that challah became
such a positive force for peace.

There was, there was a line in particular
that stuck out to me when he was speaking

to Yondi, where he says, you know, as
well as I know, treasure is as worth it

as the good that can be done with it.

And I just think that's such a beautiful
line to be coming from well, and

Jude: it's interesting, like the
earthly mythos they bring with

them was the whole steal from the
rich give to the poor Robin hood,

Trey: Robin leach.

Jude: Peter Quill for Peter Quill,
Johnny karate for Peter Quill,

Trey: maybe, maybe the right, the
creatives of what if are just holding

against Peter Quill for banging Santos,
his head and snapping him out of it.

And then it

Jude: has to be, it has to be,
this is your punishment, um,

is, is the pop culture stuff.

Uh, but particularly keeps coming
up as like Footloose, you know?

And so, yeah, I dunno.

It's just, it's just such a,
such a great contrast there.

And even like the, the infinity stone.

You know, or the stone and, and
his, his daughter uses to like

go jumpstart, a dying star.

So, you know, so this planet can be saved.

It's just where, you know, Quill
is completely all about that.

Trey: Yeah.

I mean, another one of those
small moments, like I think this

episode is comprised of a lot of
small acts of good that to Charla

has done that just has continuous
reverberations throughout the universe.

There was a moment later on where
to challah interacts with Drax

and he's like, Hey, let's take
a picture for my wife and kid.

And it's just in that moment where you
learn that through his exploits, this

universe had, this universe is now a
peaceful one for Drax because of the

effect that the challenge had on it,
which is another one of those, those

like sappy moments that got me tearing up

Jude: and there's universe,
the blip doesn't happen.

Our well tap the brakes,
the blimp doesn't happen by

Trey: thin.

Do you think it still happens at all?

I don't know.

Jude: I think is that I don't
think it's out of the realm of

possibility because we saw Nebula.

Trey: True.

And I'll say this, I had this safe for
stray thoughts, but I'll bring it up here.

It is interesting.

Nevermind.

You just answered the question for me.

I was gonna say it is interesting
why the power stone is still

being hunted, but you're right.

It was to save the dying star.

So nevermind.

But, uh, yeah.

I wonder if it does happen
at some point, you know,

Jude: and we've seen two infinity stones.

Trey: Yeah.

That's right.

Space stone empowers them.

Jude: Although, hold on, then I'm
going to say this frustrate thought.

Well, it's kind of out of place because
it's the first one, like captain Carter

time traveled going through the space.

So it's the space stone.

I thought it was just like a.

You travel far distances in space.

So how did it

Trey: see, this is why this
is why I missed you, because

that was completely lost on me.

As I was listening to like so many other
podcasts, like they brought that up.

I was like, oh yeah, this is a good point.

I just took it at face value.

Like, okay, she's in the present

Jude: now.

Like, did you jump reality?

Like it didn't take it out again for me.

I'm like people, listen, no,
I'm not getting bogged down

into the mechanics in this time.

Like, it's a cartoon.

I took it as face value.

Like that didn't even pop into my
head until God, I think Friday,

Saturday after the episode, like,
like it didn't even register because

I was into watching it, you know?

Yeah.

But yeah, it is interesting that, and, and
it just makes me wonder as we say that.

Uh, did they change in these?

What ifs are they changing?

The power set of these infinity

Trey: stones?

That would be really interesting if
that ends up being okay, because you see

Jude: that and what they have, what we're
used to as being that power stone in the

org, they never really opened the door.

And what ended up being more valuable
was that Genesis plant, you know, and

that ended up being more valuable.

So I, it just, it doesn't make me
wonder in these, in these, what if

worlds, if these power stones or
these, um, infinity zones aren't as

powerful as they were in the main.

And so you timeline?

Trey: Yeah.

As far, I mean, Do we know of
anyone who tried to acquire the

stones quite like Santos did.

I mean, maybe that's just not, not
a, I don't want to say a possibility

just it's not on the mind of anybody.

And there are much more important pieces
of power that people are researching.

It's fun to speculate.

Well, unless we got any more, I
think this is a pretty good coverage

of, to challah as star Lord.

So we're going to move into
our next most important topic,

which is the new Ravagers.

This section is going to be to
zone in, in the Ravagers and

some of the new members we had.

So we have Yondu, which is familiar.

We had cracklin, uh, we have Taserface
um, two of the big standouts for me.

I'm sure there's more, I may be missing,
but two of the big standouts is Nebula and

Thanatos do, what did you think about fan?

I was being rehabilitated
into a rabbit was a genuine

Jude: shock.

That was a genuine shock for me is to
see dominoes, but also just, uh, I love

that they, that they acknowledged, you
know, it's like, uh, it's genocide, you

know, but it's like, like I, I loved it.

Um, it's interesting, you know, and I like
the whole like, well, you know, sometimes

your best weapon is a good argument.

It's, it's interesting because there's
the whole can be rational, right?

Like, like in order to win him
over with a good argument, he needs

to be able to be reasoned with.

And, and, and he doesn't come across as
someone who can be reasoned with he's

very myopic into this is the one thing.

Yeah.

And so in that sense,
and then the play on.

And they kind of spin off on the Avengers
Hulk moment there where he's just always

angry, but this time I'm not crazy.

It was great.

So good.

Yeah.

And so, so yeah, that was,
that was a genuine shock.

And to hear the actual role and voice

Trey: for the character.

I'm so glad you brought that up
because we were talking about

this and this was the mum.

I was like, no, hold on, hold on.

Let's record.

And you brought up Josh Brolin
and how happy you were that he

was doing the voice work for this.

Somehow I missed it whenever his name
popped up in the opening credits.

And I'm so thankful because that
preserved the surprise of knowing

that fantas was in this episode.

Um, it was something I picked up
when I was doing my second and third

watch, but they, they showed a lot of
the names where the voice actors that

were going to be at in this episode.

So I'm very thankful.

I missed that.

Jude: You know what, like I saw it, but I
didn't, it didn't click that he would have

be like, I expected him to be a big guy.

You know, like I saw the name and I was
like, okay, so we're going to seat banjos

the big, bad, you know, it's clearly
gardened the galaxy there's Ronin.

So that's what I'm thinking.

Um, so yeah, I was still
totally caught off guard.

Does he?

Trey: Danielle was being talked
down from his quest is seriously

one of the funniest scenarios.

I think the show could have given us.

And it's only episode two.

And even though he's not the genocidal
mad Titan, he was in the movie.

He him being adamant that
his plan would have worked.

It, it takes this devastating force
down to somebody who thought they'd

go pro back in the day and that
the fact that they can flip that.

And one episode is amazing and something
that I think just clicked for me that,

uh, cause, cause I love this idea that
you were talking about it being like

it's a cartoon and trying to explore how,
like that's not a pejorative feeling.

I think this is something that can
only work in this animated universe.

Like I don't know if we could see, I
know for me personally, I don't know if I

could see a live action version of Thanos.

That's a Ravager and actually
a little bit more reasonable.

And so yeah.

I see what you, yeah, yeah.

It just, it fits perfectly
here in this animated world.

Jude: Yeah.

It's one of those things.

There's only certain there's things
that you can do in a cartoon that you

can't do live action, you know, and

Trey: well, I mean, take, for example,
last week, I that's what I was saying

so much about captain Carter animation
allows you to flex the super soldier

serum far more than you could that.

Jude: Yeah.

Like here she could stop a truck
and you weren't gonna have a

Trey: problem with it.

Oh my God.

Jude: No, but I, I will say to add onto
that with the first episode, the whole.

Start having the, the iron suit.

The what?

Nazi Thumper Hydrus offer.

Yeah.

Hydros Nazis that, oh my gosh.

Trey: Yeah.

Nazi Thumper from war machine.

Jude: That's what Bucky should
have been going around in

Trey: now.

Fascinating tales from
a hydro Stomper in Nazi

Jude: Thumper.

Exactly.

What do, what they should've
done in 1940 struck voice too.

Great.

Um, but yeah, so like that's, that's
another thing I think that works

well because it was the cartoon.

Um, hell am I thinking?

Trey: Okay.

Oh, I love it.

Well, another one of the characters
I think we can zone in on

here in this moment is Nebula.

And I didn't realize how much
it would affect me to see

Nebula, not in robotic pieces.

Like she is in the movies to
clarify that a little bit more.

Like she is a character that
grew on me exponentially by

the time he got to end game.

So seeing this alternate universe
where she wasn't pulled apart and, and

swapped with all these robotic pieces,
really hammered home, how violent of a

life she lived in the prime universe.

And as nice as it was to see her a
little bit in a better place here,

it just made me feel like man,
like that was a lot that she went

through in contrast of the movies.

Yeah,

Jude: well, and they gave her this kind
of redemption is not the right word, but

that moment of catharsis maybe where she
comes back and helps then us at the end.

Yeah.

And so they were able to add in
that tension between the two of

them in this moment where she comes
back to help and it was 30 minutes

and they were able to do all that.

And that was, that was really

Trey: cool.

Yeah.

And, and see, and that was one
of my other notes too, is like,

we do see that she still has that
robotic piece around her eye and a

slight resentment towards Stanos.

So we know to challah talk down
Thanos at some point, but we don't

know to what extent his affects on
her is still his responsibility.

And so I was, I was struggling with
how to phrase that in my notes too,

because it's not a redemption because.

Given what we know in the prime universe
and the unknowns of this, we don't know

to what extent that relationship is.

But as much as this episode is centered
around family, uh, and found family and

being able to bridge the gaps between
your past and the people in your present.

It was really great
work that we could see.

There is a road to something
better between him.

And I think they even do it in a,
not so subtle way, because with that

Ember I've forgot what they called
it, but that Ember that they use

to take down, um, uh, midnight and
the other one, the, who is escaping

my name, whose name is escaping me.

Yeah.

It's not

Jude: a there's Proxima midnight.

Ebony mark.

Corvis.

Trey: Not Corvus, but the other one,

Jude: um, man, uh, the Corvus Glade,

Trey: uh, it was black dwarf.

The, you know, the way they get away
from them is with those embers and

it just immediately sprouts like
these giant roots and they get away.

It's a, not so subtle imagery,
but given to Charles, like

you should give him a shot.

He's a farmer.

Now there is a lot of
imagery of that regrowth.

And so even if it's not on a path of
good it's, it's, there's something there.

And I just, yeah, yeah.

Jude: It grew those tentacles, the same
thing as what we saw in the first one,

probably not cynicals they're the same
thing we saw that captain Carter fought.

Trey: It's a multi-dimensional mate.

That just needs to be pruned.

Jude: Well, and I say that jokingly, like
is like, this was a completely separate

episode then from episode one, And I'm,
I'm imagining these are going to, these

characters are gonna cross at some
point, like, like I hope we see Thanos

again and Nebula and to challah maybe.

Or is this the only episode
we get to challenge?

I don't know.

And so it's, it's hard to tell and
I don't honestly think that those

vines where the team tentacles, but
it did make me wonder, like what

overlap from episode episode, are we
going to see or do each one of these

actually really do stand on their own?

Trey: Well, I'm S are you fine
with promotional material?

That's been put out of, I bring something
up or would you rather not discuss that?

You can discuss it.

So, you know, you made a
good point that we don't see.

And given the promotional material,
we know that there is a Gomorrah

centered episode plot line or something
because she is in Thanasis armor.

And so, you know, I, I got to imagine
she's not in this episode, we know

she's part of the promotional material.

I do think we will see interlinking
storylines because I think, I

think your instinct is right.

I think there will be more than just
what we get well, and it's, they've

Jude: already two seasons,

Trey: so yeah.

Yeah.

That's for sure.

Jude: Yeah.

Okay.

So, so they have time to slow
burn this and set something up.

So yeah.

Trey: Yeah, it'll be, it'll be fun to
see how it evolves as we move through.

All right.

Well, moving along, I think we can go
ahead and jump into the next important

topic, which is heist at the collectors.

Uh, now this section is going to
deal with pretty much that last set

piece, where we have the Ravagers
infiltrate, the collectors base to

steal the Ember and all the ensuing plot
hooks that happened in that section.

So starting with me this time, I
wanted to highlight, I like that.

Thanos made a comment about, um,
you know, the collector was the one

to step in and the power vacuum of
fantas, deciding to put down his plan.

It was a very throwaway line, but
in this universe, we see that the

collector's collection is far more
abundant than it is in the movies.

And we also see that the black
order is now working for him.

So I love that you can follow them.

Alternate universe through this.

What if possible?

Like it feels lived in rather than
it just being a throwaway line.

So I liked that.

Yeah,

Jude: no, that's I really
liked that you put it that way.

This feels lived in, um, cause I mean,
it was cool to get the black order back.

Um, it was cool to have, you know,
the original voices with that

because you know who they are, you
like, you know what they're about?

You know?

Um, it, it was interesting.

I'm glad we got to see the collector.

I think overall did bending CEO, Del
Toro get more lines and stuff to do

in this one episode than he did in the

Trey: movies.

He might've.

Yeah.

Well, you know, and it's so
funny you say that because one of

the notes that I wrote down is.

I don't think I know what Benicio Del
Toro sounds like, because before we even

recorded this episode, I told you, I,
I was convinced that the collector got

recast and infinity war, because like
that, that it didn't feel like the same

character from the guardians movies.

And then watching this one, I was
like, oh man, I guess they recast it.

And again, and Nope, it
was the same voice actor.

So for whatever reason,
like I cannot ping Benicia.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

Like I I'm with you, if you would
not have told me, that's you,

it was in the, in the credits.

I wouldn't have thought of that.

That they brought him back.

So

yeah.

So he probably had more work
in this episode than he did in

guardians and infinity work.

Trey: Definitely.

And, and it makes sense.

He got a huge power above,
cause he was a ripped in this.

Jude: Okay.

Yes.

Yeah.

Well there's patching power vacuum.

Trey: Oh, man.

I will say this though.

The collector has to be the biggest fan
of the MCU because like all his weapons

were weapons from villains and every
minute, you know, so somehow he's, he's

got the ability to watch the primary.

Jude: What'd you think I've seen
the collector having cap shield?

Trey: I have my like, oh man, I hated it.

Answer.

And then also, like, are
we seeing the shield a lot?

Like in pop-up like, are
we going to familiar now?

Does that make

Jude: sense?

She no longer sacred
is what you're saying.

Trey: Yeah.

Maybe.

I don't know if it feels like a,
well, they keep going back to,

and I don't want it to lose that.

No, no, no, no,

Jude: no.

And I mean the head Thor's hammer,
um, I don't remember seeing

anything from iron man up there.

Like a love or a helmet.

Trey: Yeah.

Jude: So, um, having a Heller's
helmet, Cal antlers, whatever, like, I,

Trey: I'm very excited
for our Ragnar robbery.

Jude: Um, like that was a nice touch.

I really liked that kind of mimic
the motion before he started throwing

the, the swords and the blades there.

But yeah, like those two stood out
and I don't know if I'm with you,

like it's just getting overexposed
or they didn't have enough stuff.

I'd have to think about that
and what he was using his blade.

Right.

When he first attacked, I
believe that was the dark side.

So like, it would have been cool.

Like I would have loved to have seen him
use instead of captain America shield the

shield slash gauntlet, he had an infinity
war that will conduct gave him, like

Trey: that would have been really cool.

And I want to clarify real quick, because
I already know I'm taking some heat from

the Falcon and winter soldier run, where
I talked about the truck and all that.

Like everything in that series
regarding the shield is fine.

I'm talking more like we've seen
the shield in the eternal trailer.

We've seen the shield in and I'm just,
I'm starting to feel like it's this.

Well, they keep going back to, so
it has nothing to do with things

that have already taken place.

I just don't want the shield to lose that.

It's the fabric

Jude: that holds the universe together.

Yeah.

Trey: That's why you see
it pop up at university.

Jude: It's the one constant
among the straights.

Trey: It's the choice I make an every

well, while I'm being a fuddy-duddy I have
one quick comment to say, I feel like I've

been talking a lot, but I have one quick
comment to say I have an irrational hatred

of Howard, the duck, and I'm so happy that
he was in, in consequential to the story.

Jude: I remember watching the
really bad eighties movie in the

eighties and being young and enough.

To not understand what I was
watching to enjoy the movie.

Trey: What I'm hearing is at some
point we have to do her view on,

Jude: I don't know if we can put ourselves
through that, that movie was bad, but I

was young and dumb and like, I enjoyed it.

Cause I was just, you know, it's
one of the things you watch a

movie and you're young and you
don't realize how dumb it it was.

Um, so in that sense, I have
that soft spot to like Howard,

the duck and I was okay with it.

Yeah.

I mean, why don't we like
Howard's a duck, right?

I mean, we're fine with Donald, the
duck, Daffy duck, which on was Howard

Trey: the duck, you know, it's
so funny you went that direction

because I was th I was legitimately
thinking about it all day to day.

Like, all right, I know
I'm going to bring this.

Work through your feelings.

Why do you feel this way?

You're fine with Groot.

You're fine.

With Loki alligator.

You're fine with rocket raccoon.

What is it about a talking
duck that just makes you mad?

And I have no answers.

Jude: I know, I know bugs the
bunny, although bugs and Daffy,

the Docker or Warner brothers.

So yeah, that's DC

Trey: making the mouse.

The mouse has me

Jude: caught in the mass trap.

So, you know what?

I just find interesting about this whole
sequence and I didn't catch it in the

first watch was when to challah found the
Condon ship and this whole thing about,

I don't know why, but in my first watch
I missed the whole Wakanda was destroyed.

And so it definitely hit me differently.

In that second watch when he found it.

So in the first watch, it was kind of
like, oh, you found it as part of the

collector's collection and you have
these memories of home that you left.

And that was kind of the
way I was reading it.

And it wasn't a realization
of like, you've been lied to.

Trey: Yeah.

It's I know for me, it definitely
hit harder the first time.

Like it finally clicked, but I
like, I guess, cause I liked that

line so much where Nebula was
like, so your home got destroyed.

And so you protect everybody else's home.

That's the name of this tune.

Right.

And like, so I liked that flippant
diagnosis of the thing that

makes this to childhood tick.

And so even though it, it registered
that first watch I'm there with

you that it really hit hard on
that second one specially after

you have that confrontation
between to challah and Yondu.

And, and, and even if it
didn't click in that moment, it

clearly clicks where they meet.

And I'm amazed that this episode,
despite handling the pacing better, it

is still moving at a breakneck speed.

And so that's just, I think, very
good writing that they're able

to hit these story beats and have
it hit, um, you know, first year,

even second watch through, right?

Jude: Oh yeah.

Yeah.

You know, and because, you know,
it's, like you said, it's, there's

a lot packed into this episode.

You have a heist, you have, you know,
setting up the characters and setting

up the choice you have, um, playing
into, you know, in spinning on her

head expectations of characters.

They actually did.

In some ways, I think a lot more with this
episode than they did the first episode.

Trey: Oh, 100%.

Yeah.

You know,

Jude: and, and then, so at the end,
you know, cause like I said, it was,

it was just that quick line from
Nebula that I'm just missed and didn't

catch it on the first watch that you
know, that whole economical and being

efficient and in your storytelling.

So in, in that sense, that
was really, really well done.

Trey: Yeah.

And to continue playing in this
space, uh, there's a moment where.

Nebulous stays that, oh, to
Charles keeping his escape

plan close to his chest.

And then we cut to, to challah
being captured by the collector.

And he's pulling off his Wakanda necklace
to break out of the glass, the glass.

I'm still feeling out my thoughts here,
but I think, I think we can agree.

This episode is definitely
centered around family.

And so, uh, I highlighted the line
with Nebula saying, oh, this is the,

the tune of your song to Charla has
been operating under this assumption

that he has no home to return to.

And so that's why he reaches out
to save other people instead.

So after discovering that his home is
still around, that's when he embraces

that with Conda heritage in him, by
literally using that necklace to escape

and then pilot the ship later, you
know, you have that moment where he's

reaching towards his past and then.

Yondu and to Charla, engage with the
collector and to challah is able to

set aside his differences to work
together, to take on this threat.

And so it's this melding of his
past family with his new family.

And I think that speaks to the
volume of, to Charlie's character.

And so I like the work they're doing
and it's all again, breakneck speed.

A lot of subtlety, but it
works really well for me.

Yeah.

Jude: Well, and it's a very similar ending
to, um, guardians of the galaxy too.

You know, it's like, who is my family?

And does it have to be hereditary
versus not, and families have issues

and we work through them, you know?

So, yeah.

So it was interesting.

They were able to tie the message of
guardians too, with the first guardians.

Trey: And it's, it's consistent
with Yondu too, because even

in this universe, in the last.

He sees a potential for better
in both to challah and this one

and Peter and the other one.

And he wants the best for them, even
when he can't hope to see it in himself.

And so he can't be vulnerable,
but through them, he learns to be.

And again, it's like you said,
it's continuing those themes

of guardians of the galaxy too

well.

And unless there's any more about the
high set, the collectors, I think we

can go ahead and move into the last
important topic, which is family reunion.

Now this has everything to do with
those final scenes where Yondu,

and to Charla are discussing to
childless future on the ship.

And then eventually when they
arrive at home in Wakanda.

So what did you think about
these last few scenes?

Jude: Yeah.

I wonder two things, a I wonder what
point they were done with their production

in relation to Chadwick Boseman step.

Um, and I, and I do wonder if that had
any impact on how they ended this episode,

you know, and having this homecoming,
bringing them back to Wauconda.

So, yeah, so like that
definitely crossed my mind.

And it's interesting that at the end of
black Panther, he's like, we're going to

open up a conduit to the world where he
and here he's gone and experienced, not

just the world worlds and being able to
take that experience back to a condo.

Trey: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's
almost an inverse because Wakanda

is about the being isolated from the
world and slowly opening up to you.

Expose your influences on the world,
where as you stated, this was to Cholla

going back and bring the influences
of the world back to his home.

So it's a very beautiful inverse
between the two movie and show.

Yeah, I think the thing that hit me
the hardest in this, the weight of

the reality of Chadwick Bozeman and
the story that they were telling is I

think Yondu speech to, to Cholla about
belonging anywhere in the universe is

what hit me the hardest, just because
to challah is this person who's torn

between two worlds and he's equipped only
with the compass of wanting to do good.

And because of that, it makes Yondu
his comment hit that much more harder.

Um, and it just, it's, it's a
beautiful episode for a beautiful

character, played by a remarkable
person like Bozeman and it's.

Yeah, I, I don't know how to
quite articulate it like you did.

It does make me wonder how much
the influence of his passing

played into this episode.

Um, because it is, it is oddly fitting
how well it fit for the stories

that have been told about posts.

Yes.

And it was good.

And it was, I think I
mentioned the priest portal.

Thoughts it's bittersweet it's it was,
I got a little teary watching them all

interact together where you had, uh,
Thanos and McCoy discussing banjos.

This plan had just so many of the
Ravagers interacting with the continents.

And it was, it was two completely
different worlds that had very

little interaction brought together
by one person, which was nice.

Yeah.

Jude: It was, it was super like he
did what he wanted to do in the end.

Yeah.

Well, when we mentioned it with the, you
mentioned it with the other episode, like.

The there's a choice that changes, but
the people themselves are or who they are.

Trey: What a great episode.

I thoroughly enjoyed this one.

Like I was giddy long
after that initial watch.

Yeah.

This is, there's a bit of a short section
in our most important topics, but it

just, it felt like the most appropriate
place to discuss this effect that

Chadwick Boseman had on the episode.

But I think that's going to
leave us with our stray thoughts.

So Jude, do you have any stray thoughts?

Jude: Uh, okay.

So the biggest stray thought I had
was I just really enjoyed the Dora

Milaje music that, that chirping
yeah, come up and I read somewhere

where that was like a missed day.

Like that for a lot, she
was like, no, no, no, no.

That's not a mistake.

That's no like, I, that
was completely intentional.

You know, it made complete sense
that that would be what shows up.

And then I really

Trey: enjoyed that.

So the ship of it, like was never planned.

It was no,

Jude: no, no, no, no.

Like, like somebody were
talking like, like that was

a goof on the creators parts.

They use the wrong music.

Like they used the wrong musical
cue and I was like, no, I

don't think that was a goof.

Trey: Yeah.

I mean, I got chills when I heard it.

Like, I knew this focused onto
Sharla, but hearing that, like

that theme has power behind it.

And it's, it's wild.

How, how strong it's so recognizable.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Jude: yeah.

So yeah, no, I don't think it was
a goof is what this site mentioned.

So what are you.

Trey: So, you know, I mentioned
earlier when I was doing my grains of

sand work, but I wanted to highlight
it here in the stray thoughts.

Uh, absolutely adore the way this
episode inserted the watcher.

Uh, so for example, you had the
opening shot of him pondering in

the sky only to be disrupted by the
footstep of water, by to challah.

Then you had another one where he
was watching the distance as to

challah and Yondu fly off to meet
the Ravagers, which is really nice.

And then finally you had it again
when he was watching a young to

challah pick up the spear after
he had escaped the boundary.

And so that's all those shots is
what helps make me gravitate towards

a personality for the launcher and
made it feel like he was a lot more

inquisitive than he was in the first one.

So that was really nice.

I do want to say, I'm sure the budget
wasn't there for music drops in this

episode, but that scene where to
challah and the Ravagers are coming

down the stairs at the club really
felt like it hearkened to the guardians

without having to do a music drops.

So I liked that a lot.

Yeah.

This one, this could
definitely be one of those.

The curtains are blue, but I
wanted to highlight it because

I thought it was beautiful.

Uh, I love the shot where to
childlike goes to Yondu to

convince him to run the mission.

Uh, you can see that Yondu is standing
with the light coming through the ship to

his back and to Charla stepping into it.

Uh, Yondu was the one to present,
to challah with the opportunity to

spread his light across the universe.

And in this moment of hesitation, it
is to Charla who is stepping into the

light to convince Yondu to go on this.

And so I thought that was
very economical and beautiful.

That's really nice.

Yeah.

Now the strength.

The collector says, hacked it off a
carcass of a terribly chatty Cronin.

So rest in peace Corps, unfortunately.

And finally, my last rate thought
loved that the collector in this

universe suffers a very similar fate
to his brother of the grand Mac.

Yes.

So that was a master

Jude: coming back.

Trey: That would be amazing.

Cause we didn't, it's weird that
they would specifically state

their brothers and not have them.

Yeah.

Jude: I mean, they are brothers at this
point, you got to have them interact.

Trey: Yeah.

Hey, Jeff Goldbloom is he's in line with
Disney plus he had his own TV chair.

So I'm imagine he'd come back

Jude: for this Jeff Goldbloom
tours, the world, right?

Trey: Yeah.

Uh, but I was gonna say one
more, one more stray thought.

You know, we talked about the Thanos
becoming the person who thought he

could have gone pro back in the day.

I like that this is all a tongue
in cheek, like prodding at the

fondos did nothing wrong crap.

So I'm glad that they got
that little jab there.

Jude: It was genocide.

So it

Trey: was genocide.

It was efficient.

If you stop

Jude: and think about it, that was Tom.

It was genocide.

Oh,

Trey: well, yeah, that, uh, that's
going to do it for my straight thoughts.

So, Hey, we want to know what you
thought of the episode, whether it be

the, what if episode or our podcast,
and you can reach us at MC you need

to know on Twitter and Instagram for
any comments or thoughts that you have

as well as extra bonuses that we've
been putting up on our social media.

So if you enjoyed this show and you
want a little bit more of it, you can

find extra audio clips over there.

So make sure you're following us.

And of course, if you want to join a
richer conversation, you can always join

us in the discord with a bunch of other
excited people for the MC hero, with a

link to our discord in the show notes.

If

Jude: you'd be so kind to give
us a star rating on apple podcast

or review on whichever podcast
catcher, you use the feedback always

welcome a big help to our show.

And you know, of course you're listening.

If you like what you hear.

Share that joy with a friend
is the best thing you can

Trey: do with this.

Yeah.

We'd also like to thank Nixon, Sandy
for the use of our theme song, which

is his rendition of the Avengers theme.

You find more of his work
on his SoundCloud, which is

linked in the show notes.

All right, that's going to do it.

Thank you so much for listening and June.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Cool.

Thank you.

We'll see you all next week.

Yeah, well,

Jude: like we said, jump on my Yeti.

Oh my God.

Sorry.

Trey: No, go ahead.

You want to get another
one in just to have.

Have fun.

This is for you friend Daniel.

Jude: Welcome back to you.

Trey: All right, here we go.

But yeah, God, that fell bad.

Why is it?

Jude: So remember, we're trying
to get into the spoilers.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Trey: Okay.